The “two strikes” rule for Train Driver recruitment

[Stigy]

Hi all,

I did search the forum but couldn’t find anything relating to my question so thought I’d start a new thread. So my question;

I’m aware that there’s a rule whereby an application only ever gets two goes at the trainee train driver assessments in their lifetime. I was thinking the other day (I know!), and wondered, does this mean one can only have two FAILED attempts? I ask because I have never actually failed a driver assesment, but the first ones I took (bar the MMI which I took recently) expired for a lot of companies (they are 3.5yrs old). I always assumed that this now means if required to resist any of the tests, this would be my last possible attempt? Was thinking the other day though, that this rule only applies to failed attempts and as I’ve never failed one, does the same rule apply?

Any advice as always appreciated!

 

[Juliet Barvo]

Two failures. Not two attempts. As many passes as you like in your lifetime, until the rules change.

 

[Westcoast-ting]

if You break it down into individual tests you can only fail the same one twice.

This means you can fail twice at dfft but if the company you apply for doesn’t use it then your life’s are intact.

Same goes for MMI / CBI, if you fail MMI twice and the toc uses the cbi your ok.

Even then I believe there was only ever guidance issued, all tocs retain the right to make the decision to asses 2 x failures if they want to

 

[Stigy]

Thanks for the advice!

West coast, I thought all TOC/FOC used the MMI rather than CBI now?

 

[choochoochoo]

if You break it down into individual tests you can only fail the same one twice.

This means you can fail twice at dfft but if the company you apply for doesn’t use it then your life’s are intact.

Same goes for MMI / CBI, if you fail MMI twice and the toc uses the cbi your ok.

Even then I believe there was only ever guidance issued, all tocs retain the right to make the decision to asses 2 x failures if they want to

I've heard this too. Apparently there is nothing in writing by the competent authority that says you can only have 2 attempts. This is merely guidance. If a TOC wanted to get an applicant through, they can take the tests as many times as they like.

 

[Westcoast-ting]

nah vt one of the few that still choose the cbi.

Only found out after preparing for cbi and told different !

 

[Stigy]

nah vt one of the few that still choose the cbi.

Only found out after preparing for cbi and told different !

So does the CBI take the same format as the MMI? What’s the difference?

 

[Westcoast-ting]

When I was researching I think I found that you don’t need to pass these assessments at all.

I think that if the applicant fails you can employ them as long as you plan extra measures to ensure competence.

I think this came up after a trainee driver was employed and during training an admin error was noticed. They asked the trainee to re sit the exam and aslef said nope they are under contract now.

May be an urban ledged though lol

 

[Westcoast-ting]

So does the CBI take the same format as the MMI? What’s the difference?

Yes similar. Only 5 questions but I think the look for set criteria in each question.

As an example one question they look for proactivity and tenacity, you can display this in every example but don’t do it In the one they need it in and it’s a fail.

 

[Stigy]

When I was researching I think I found that you don’t need to pass these assessments at all.

I think that if the applicant fails you can employ them as long as you plan extra measures to ensure competence.

I think this came up after a trainee driver was employed and during training an admin error was noticed. They asked the trainee to re sit the exam and aslef said nope they are under contract now.

May be an urban ledged though lol

Interesting. I can see why ASLEF went down that road if he was already employed.

So in summary, I guess I have my two attempts outstanding given I’ve never failed, just ‘timed out’. The first time round I went for depot driver with my TOC (April 2015), but had what I believe was a DMI before an MMI. I was never offered the job so didnt do an MMI, however they didn’t actually mention a DMI, just an MMI, recruitment didn’t really seem to know what it was that I sat (MMI or DMI). Given it was conducted by a Depot Manager rather than HR (we do our own assessing at the TOC I work for, rather than sub-contract it out to OPC or similar), and didn’t take the form of the MMI I have just sat, I’m going with the fact it was a DMI.

 

[Stigy]

Yes similar. Only 5 questions but I think the look for set criteria in each question.

As an example one question they look for proactivity and tenacity, you can display this in every example but don’t do it In the one they need it in and it’s a fail.

Oh right, I see. Thanks. I’ve passed an MMI so hoping I don’t have to do a CBI if (when) I get that far again haha.

 

[Westcoast-ting]

Oh right, I see. Thanks. I’ve passed an MMI so hoping I don’t have to do a CBI if (when) I get that far again haha.

The OPC said most do MMI, I think it got a bit silly now with enhanced passes etc.

The case could be argued that the process needs updating now to reflect the standards what tocs are expecting.

 

[Stigy]

The OPC said most do MMI, I think it got a bit silly now with enhanced passes etc.

The case could be argued that the process needs updating now to reflect the standards what tocs are expecting.

I did the previous tests but failed one aspect back in 2011, thefore got a clean slate...as they were updated in 2013 I believe? (Hence how I’ve never failed one really). I agree these things always need updating or at the very least reviewing, so maybe they should be reviewed more often? I’m not sure what would specifically need changing as I’m not a driver, but taking on board feedback from current drivers who have revently(ish) qualified I’m sure would be beneficial.