The case for preserving a class 483...

61653 HTAFC

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Now that a decision has been made about the future of the Island Line, with D78s set to come in (as class 484), I'd like to make a case for saving one of the old units, as although they're old and non-standard, they do represent an important part of our railway history, having been the oldest stock on the network since they were introduced to BR (as was).

Keeping one in working order on the island is unlikely, as there isn't much space in the depot and "depot mascots" aren't really a thing any more... but they don't take up much space as far as trains go, so a single vehicle or even a 2-car set could sit quite happily in the NRM or at Shildon, particularly if repainted into NSE or the "dinosaur" livery.

On the other hand, London Transport Museum already has 1938 stock preserved, so should other soon-to-be-history stock be prioritised?

So, is there a case to be made? Do your worst! ;)
 
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hexagon789

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Now that a decision has been made about the future of the Island Line, with D78s set to come in (as class 484), I'd like to make a case for saving one of the old units, as although they're old and non-standard, they do represent an important part of our railway history, having been the oldest stock on the network since they were introduced to BR (as was).

Keeping one in working order on the island is unlikely, as there isn't much space in the depot and "depot mascots" aren't really a thing any more... but they don't take up much space as far as trains go, so a single vehicle or even a 2-car set could sit quite happily in the NRM or at Shildon, particularly if repainted into NSE or the "dinosaur" livery.

On the other hand, London Transport Museum already has 1938 stock preserved, so should other soon-to-be-history stock be prioritised?

So, is there a case to be made? Do your worst! ;)
Could the Isle of Wight railway take one and use it as hauled-stock in a similar manner to the Alderney Railway?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Could the Isle of Wight railway take one and use it as hauled-stock in a similar manner to the Alderney Railway?
I imagine they could, but I think they'd also quite reluctant to do so. Extending the steam railway to Ryde St. John's Road is often suggested (with the subsequent closure of Smallbrook) but now that the juice rail is staying there are safety concerns about a volunteer workforce having to get close to the live rail. If the IoWSR were to run such a service they'd probably want more capacity than just a 2-car set, which then brings back the issue of storage space.
 

hexagon789

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I imagine they could, but I think they'd also quite reluctant to do so. Extending the steam railway to Ryde St. John's Road is often suggested (with the subsequent closure of Smallbrook) but now that the juice rail is staying there are safety concerns about a volunteer workforce having to get close to the live rail. If the IoWSR were to run such a service they'd probably want more capacity than just a 2-car set, which then brings back the issue of storage space.
Could they theoretically take a four-car and run as push-pull with a diesel? Perhaps they could modify one of their shunters and use that on the mainline and they wouldn't need to go near the third rail then
 

61653 HTAFC

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Could they theoretically take a four-car and run as push-pull with a diesel? Perhaps they could modify one of their shunters and use that on the mainline and they wouldn't need to go near the third rail then
Sorry, I ended up fudging two different issues with my last post. The juice rail issue is to do with the proposal to extend the preserved line to St. John's. Whether the preserved line would want to take a preserved 483 is a separate issue, though as I understand it they're almost as short of space as the "big" railway is.
 

hexagon789

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Whether the preserved line would want to take a preserved 483 is a separate issue, though as I understand it they're almost as short of space as the "big" railway is.
It would require more upkeep with its powered doors and making it push-pull would of course be another matter again. All issues that might put them off.
 

Journeyman

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I'd say it's bit of a non-starter. The new stock will require a new platform/train interface which could make running tube stock difficult, and it's in incredibly bad condition. While in modified form it's quite different to as-built condition, the 38 Stock is quite well represented in preservation - as well as the functional unit, there's several other surviving cars, including one in the LT museum at Covent Garden.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I'd say it's bit of a non-starter. The new stock will require a new platform/train interface which could make running tube stock difficult, and it's in incredibly bad condition. While in modified form it's quite different to as-built condition, the 38 Stock is quite well represented in preservation - as well as the functional unit, there's several other surviving cars, including one in the LT museum at Covent Garden.
You're probably right, though I do think a car in the dinosaur livery would be popular with younger visitors to the NRM or Shildon!
 

wagwan my g

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i agree that one should be preserved, and as said in a previous post it could be used as hauled stock. I mean if the isle of wight preserved line doesn't want it that's fair enough but I'm sure another line would want it to be used as hauled stock. It would be better to keep it on the isle of wight of course, but somewhere is better than nowhere.
 

61653 HTAFC

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i agree that one should be preserved, and as said in a previous post it could be used as hauled stock. I mean if the isle of wight preserved line doesn't want it that's fair enough but I'm sure another line would want it to be used as hauled stock. It would be better to keep it on the isle of wight of course, but somewhere is better than nowhere.
I'm not sure any preserved line would want a very short unit of non-standard height carriages to use as hauled stock to be honest... I'd like to see one saved but if it can't be hosted on the island or at the LT museum the only realistic prospect is for one to be "stuffed and mounted" as a static exhibit. As I said, a "dinosaur train" at the NRM would be popular with the kids.
 

pdeaves

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I'm not sure any preserved line would want a very short unit of non-standard height carriages to use as hauled stock to be honest... I'd like to see one saved but if it can't be hosted on the island or at the LT museum the only realistic prospect is for one to be "stuffed and mounted" as a static exhibit. As I said, a "dinosaur train" at the NRM would be popular with the kids.
In our hypothetical world, would it be necessary to relegate to hauled stock? Would a battery conversion suffice for the kind of short journeys on a heritage line? Maybe dedicated stock for the Bluebell Railway to use on the Ardingley stub? :)
 

61653 HTAFC

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In our hypothetical world, would it be necessary to relegate to hauled stock? Would a battery conversion suffice for the kind of short journeys on a heritage line? Maybe dedicated stock for the Bluebell Railway to use on the Ardingley stub? :)
I'm sure it would be possible given the will (and £££) to make it happen, but there's not much room to put batteries under the floor so you'd probably have to put them above the solebar... which reduces passenger capacity.
 

wagwan my g

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I'm not sure any preserved line would want a very short unit of non-standard height carriages to use as hauled stock to be honest... I'd like to see one saved but if it can't be hosted on the island or at the LT museum the only realistic prospect is for one to be "stuffed and mounted" as a static exhibit. As I said, a "dinosaur train" at the NRM would be popular with the kids.
I mean some of the smaller lines that don't have much might be interested,

Although it could go in a museum as that's better than nothing, especially if they did put it back into dinosaur livery as that would be popular with kids ( I remember myself being a young kid who thought they looked pretty cool). So yeah could go into the national or LT collection or some other museum. I'm not sure if there is space or if they would want it but it would be good for that museum/loco storage thing at the isle of wight preserved line.
 

randyrippley

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I thought the preserved LT set actually was one of the Island trains which they bought back just to go in the museum.
No point diluting funding by keeping another set
 

MatthewRead

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I thought the preserved LT set actually was one of the Island trains which they bought back just to go in the museum.
No point diluting funding by keeping another set
What people are saying is they want a third rail set to be preserved for running tours on the third rail network.
 

Journeyman

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I thought the preserved LT set actually was one of the Island trains which they bought back just to go in the museum.
No point diluting funding by keeping another set
No, the preserved LT set is one of the ones used on the Northern Line in the late eighties, and went to the museum immediately after withdrawal. It never went to the island. The Island Line units were very heavily modified and I doubt converting them back to LT spec is feasible.

Some of the previous generation of Island Line tube stock was bought by the LT Museum with a plan to create a working Standard Stock train, but I've a feeling it's all been scrapped.
 

Journeyman

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What people are saying is they want a third rail set to be preserved for running tours on the third rail network.
If by "network" you mean on the mainland, it'll never happen. They'd need TPWS to be fitted and are not even remotely close to modern safety standards for inter-running with other stock.
 

Journeyman

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I wonder if the Epping - Ongar Railway could make use of a set? They're a bit like the 1935 Stock units that ran in early electric days.
 

Tony2

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Some of the previous generation of Island Line tube stock was bought by the LT Museum with a plan to create a working Standard Stock train, but I've a feeling it's all been scrapped.
Most of the 485s that were returned to the mainland were scrapped, only 2 cars remain at Acton no 27 from set 485043 and no 49 from set 485044. One side of 49 is still in NSE livery!
 

Journeyman

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Most of the 485s that were returned to the mainland were scrapped, only 2 cars remain at Acton no 27 from set 485043 and no 49 from set 485044. One side of 49 is still in NSE livery!
Thanks for the update - are they going to be restored?
 

NorthernSpirit

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A class 483 unit could always be preserved and used as an information point / makeshift radio studio for Cowes Week (unless a 142 would be better).

However if a set was to be preserved then there are two options. One option is keep the example on the Isle of Wight and encourage the IOW Steam Railway to take it on as a static display. the second option would be to transfer the thing to York.
 

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