The date/time of Bolton - Manchester's first pax electric?

[Howardh]

I know there's a thread about the line, but this is specific to the timetable - what will actually happen? Do we have to wait until the first day of the May timetable; or can an electric be introduced before - with or without fanfare - and gradually the number increase?
Reason - I want to be one of the first (it's the Geoff Marshall/sad anorak in me - delete as appropriate!)
**Note, I hope I'm not being over-optimistic by suggesting we will have them in May!**

 

[td97]

Nothing announced yet by either Northern or Network Rail

 

[Howardh]

Nothing announced yet by either Northern or Network Rail

Thanks, I'm glad I haven't missed anything!

 

[Jamesrob637]

The cascades can't come soon enough - 41 short-forms today on Journey Check (maybe a few less now as some are stating "will be formed of the usual number of coaches") but even so that's 30-odd more than necessary!

 

[geoffk]

Once the ORR has signed the electrification off and provided enough drivers are trained on the new traction, no reason surely why electric units cannot be introduced in stages, starting with the Victoria - Buckshaw Parkway service, two diagrams releasing four diesel units, then Piccadilly - Blackpool North.

 

[td97]

starting with the Victoria - Buckshaw Parkway service

As an example, suppose the current 15x which runs the service comes off Newton Heath? How do you get the 319 from Allerton or Blackpool to Victoria to start the service, and then back at the end of the day, with the current staffing limitations? It's all well and good that the passenger service itself is entirely constrained, but that doesn't mean it's a simple case of sending out a 319 in the morning.

 

[geoffk]

Is it possible to stable a 319 overnight at Victoria? I admit that I'm not party to crew scheduling but surely any additional staff to handle ecs workings each end of the day should have been factored into Northern's planning?

 

[Bungle965]

Is it possible to stable a 319 overnight at Victoria? I admit that I'm not party to crew scheduling but surely any additional staff to handle ecs workings each end of the day should have been factored into Northern's planning?

You could stable it in the reversing siding outside the station.
I believe that there are booked 319s that stable there overnight.
Sam

 

[Eccles1983]

When its open you can stable some in Bolton, and Victoria.

 

[big all]

in general electric units need no depot attention for days even possibly weeks on end
with daily driver checks covering all relivant issues
so outstabling for a full week should be no problem unless more modern units are different to older units

 

[superkev]

Is it possible to stable a 319 overnight at Victoria? I admit that I'm not party to crew scheduling but surely any additional staff to handle ecs workings each end of the day should have been factored into Northern's planning?

Cleaning could be an issue.
I didnt realise 319s for Man Preston where based at distant Allerton. Wasnt there a proposal once to wire to Heath Robinson depot.
K

 

[Bikeman78]

in general electric units need no depot attention for days even possibly weeks on end
with daily driver checks covering all relivant issues
so outstabling for a full week should be no problem unless more modern units are different to older units

The stumbling block now is the toilet waste tanks need emptying. They last two or three days max. Granted that doesn't require depot attention but you do need debogging facilities at most stabling locations.

 

[adamedwards]

Is toilet emptying possible at Blackpool? Not sure if the sidings have this facility?

 

[Geeves]

Yes it is available at Blackpool and will also be available the new Springs Branch EMU sidings near Wigan NW so that should help a bit. Just a shame they cannot run pure EMUs via Westhoughton to get to them. At least the 769s will jump the gap.

 

[Howardh]

Is toilet emptying possible at Blackpool? Not sure if the sidings have this facility?

If they did no-one would notice any difference. Talbot Road's as good as any....

 

[childwallblues]

Cleaning could be an issue.
I didnt realise 319s for Man Preston where based at distant Allerton. Wasnt there a proposal once to wire to Heath Robinson depot.
K

All 319/769/331 will be based at Allerton for maintenance purposes.

 

[adamedwards]

So given loos can be emptied away from Allerton it looks like putting a 319 on to replace DMUs is doable.

 

[childwallblues]

So given loos can be emptied away from Allerton it looks like putting a 319 on to replace DMUs is doable.

Wherever discharge facilities are provided. I would have thought that Blackpool North and Springs Branch would have them.

 

[superkev]

All 319/769/331 will be based at Allerton for maintenance purposes.

I can't see all the 331s being based at allerton as theres no wires for them to reach the Leeds based Aire/Wharfedale and Doncaster services.
K

 

[johnnychips]

I can't see all the 331s being based at allerton as theres no wires for them to reach the Leeds based Aire/Wharfedale and Doncaster services.
K

Could they go via Glasgow and Edinburgh?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I can't see all the 331s being based at allerton as theres no wires for them to reach the Leeds based Aire/Wharfedale and Doncaster services.
K

I believe that locomotive drags across the Pennines were being discussed, quite possibly the motivation behind ROG looking into ordering a new loco fleet.

The units would be stabled at Neville Hill like the 333 and 321/322s are at present.

 

[superkev]

I believe that locomotive drags across the Pennines were being discussed, quite possibly the motivation behind ROG looking into ordering a new loco fleet.

The units would be stabled at Neville Hill like the 333 and 321/322s are at present.

Seeing them drag 333's to and from Neville Hill to Holbeck the other week requiring 2 class 66 with barrier wagons looks like common sense was left behind long ago.
Holbeck is less than 200m from the last 25kv wiring run so no joined up thinking there. Being at the West end of the ststion prob a better place for a depot than NL too.
K

 

[td97]

To answer the OP's question: today, and on

approximately 50% of the Buckshaw – Victoria services and around 33% of the Blackpool – Manchester Piccadilly and Preston to Manchester Airport

 

[Howardh]

To answer the OP's question: today, and on

Video of a pax electric calling at Bolton tweeted three hours ago;
https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1094868678183714817
Looks older and more clapped-out than the trains it was replacing but that will be the external bodywork, it will have been done up inside I suppose. Love to know how old the train really is, and it would help if Northern had a brighter colour scheme!!

 

[Arriva 175]

Class 319s where introduced between 1987 and 1990. So they are basically the same age as the Class 150s and about 2 years younger than Class 142s. As for more clapped out id say a Class 319 is streets ahead in terms of passenger comfort to a Class 142 and also much quieter than any Sprinter. If we wanted new EMUs to go with the wires then we most probably wouldn't have got any electrification at all in the North West. Basically Class 319s will do for now?

 

[Howardh]

Class 319s where introduced between 1987 and 1990. So they are basically the same age as the Class 150s and about 2 years younger than Class 142s. As for more clapped out id say a Class 319 is streets ahead in terms of passenger comfort to a Class 142 and also much quieter than any Sprinter. If we wanted new EMUs to go with the wires then we most probably wouldn't have got any electrification at all in the North West. Basically Class 319s will do for now?

Better than nothing; but the company that's released the 319's has newer trains to replace them, why couldn't they keep the 319's and US have the newbies? Oh, we're in the north, sorry, I forgot.

 

[Arriva 175]

Govia Thameslink Railway makes more money and carries more passengers. The 319s aren't long enough for the trains that run down South where as up North unfortunately a 2 car is more than adequate for most off peak journeys and also Northern itself requires a truck load of subsidy.

 

[td97]

US have the newbies? Oh, we're in the north, sorry, I forgot.

We get the newbies. Just have to wait until May. See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-331-construction-introduction-updates.160120/

 

[Kite159]

Better than nothing; but the company that's released the 319's has newer trains to replace them, why couldn't they keep the 319's and US have the newbies? Oh, we're in the north, sorry, I forgot.

You mean like all those modern trains on TPE (which until recently were the top of the "TOC with the youngest fleet" lists)?

Can you really picture 8 or 12-coach 700s pottering around in the north?

 

[palmersears]

Can you really picture 8 or 12-coach 700s pottering around in the north?

Absolutely I can. Sadly I can't find that many places for them to call at without 8 coaches-worth of passengers having to move down the train to get off...