The date/time of Bolton - Manchester's first pax electric?

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Howardh, 18 Dec 2018.

  1. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    I know there's a thread about the line, but this is specific to the timetable - what will actually happen? Do we have to wait until the first day of the May timetable; or can an electric be introduced before - with or without fanfare - and gradually the number increase?
    Reason - I want to be one of the first (it's the Geoff Marshall/sad anorak in me - delete as appropriate!)
    **Note, I hope I'm not being over-optimistic by suggesting we will have them in May!**
     
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  3. td97

    td97 Member

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    Nothing announced yet by either Northern or Network Rail
     
  4. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Thanks, I'm glad I haven't missed anything!
     
  5. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    The cascades can't come soon enough - 41 short-forms today on Journey Check (maybe a few less now as some are stating "will be formed of the usual number of coaches") but even so that's 30-odd more than necessary!
     
    Last edited: 19 Dec 2018
  6. geoffk

    geoffk Member

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    Once the ORR has signed the electrification off and provided enough drivers are trained on the new traction, no reason surely why electric units cannot be introduced in stages, starting with the Victoria - Buckshaw Parkway service, two diagrams releasing four diesel units, then Piccadilly - Blackpool North.
     
  7. td97

    td97 Member

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    As an example, suppose the current 15x which runs the service comes off Newton Heath? How do you get the 319 from Allerton or Blackpool to Victoria to start the service, and then back at the end of the day, with the current staffing limitations? It's all well and good that the passenger service itself is entirely constrained, but that doesn't mean it's a simple case of sending out a 319 in the morning.
     
  8. geoffk

    geoffk Member

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    Is it possible to stable a 319 overnight at Victoria? I admit that I'm not party to crew scheduling but surely any additional staff to handle ecs workings each end of the day should have been factored into Northern's planning?
     
  9. Bungle965

    Bungle965 Established Member

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    You could stable it in the reversing siding outside the station.
    I believe that there are booked 319s that stable there overnight.
    Sam
     
  10. Eccles1983

    Eccles1983 On Moderation

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    When its open you can stable some in Bolton, and Victoria.
     
  11. big all

    big all Member

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    in general electric units need no depot attention for days even possibly weeks on end
    with daily driver checks covering all relivant issues
    so outstabling for a full week should be no problem unless more modern units are different to older units
     
  12. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    Cleaning could be an issue.
    I didnt realise 319s for Man Preston where based at distant Allerton. Wasnt there a proposal once to wire to Heath Robinson depot.
    K
     
  13. John Clausen

    John Clausen Member

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    The stumbling block now is the toilet waste tanks need emptying. They last two or three days max. Granted that doesn't require depot attention but you do need debogging facilities at most stabling locations.
     
  14. adamedwards

    adamedwards Member

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    Is toilet emptying possible at Blackpool? Not sure if the sidings have this facility?
     
  15. Geeves

    Geeves Member

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    Yes it is available at Blackpool and will also be available the new Springs Branch EMU sidings near Wigan NW so that should help a bit. Just a shame they cannot run pure EMUs via Westhoughton to get to them. At least the 769s will jump the gap.
     
  16. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    If they did no-one would notice any difference. Talbot Road's as good as any....
     
  17. childwallblues

    childwallblues Established Member

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    All 319/769/331 will be based at Allerton for maintenance purposes.
     
  18. adamedwards

    adamedwards Member

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    So given loos can be emptied away from Allerton it looks like putting a 319 on to replace DMUs is doable.
     
  19. childwallblues

    childwallblues Established Member

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    Wherever discharge facilities are provided. I would have thought that Blackpool North and Springs Branch would have them.
     
  20. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    I can't see all the 331s being based at allerton as theres no wires for them to reach the Leeds based Aire/Wharfedale and Doncaster services.
    K
     
  21. johnnychips

    johnnychips Established Member

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    Could they go via Glasgow and Edinburgh? :)
     
  22. Tim R-T-C

    Tim R-T-C Established Member

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    I believe that locomotive drags across the Pennines were being discussed, quite possibly the motivation behind ROG looking into ordering a new loco fleet.

    The units would be stabled at Neville Hill like the 333 and 321/322s are at present.
     
  23. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    Seeing them drag 333's to and from Neville Hill to Holbeck the other week requiring 2 class 66 with barrier wagons looks like common sense was left behind long ago.
    Holbeck is less than 200m from the last 25kv wiring run so no joined up thinking there. Being at the West end of the ststion prob a better place for a depot than NL too.
    K
     
  24. td97

    td97 Member

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    To answer the OP's question: today, and on
     
  25. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Video of a pax electric calling at Bolton tweeted three hours ago;
    https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1094868678183714817
    Looks older and more clapped-out than the trains it was replacing :( but that will be the external bodywork, it will have been done up inside I suppose. Love to know how old the train really is, and it would help if Northern had a brighter colour scheme!!
     
  26. Arriva 175

    Arriva 175 Member

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    Class 319s where introduced between 1987 and 1990. So they are basically the same age as the Class 150s and about 2 years younger than Class 142s. As for more clapped out id say a Class 319 is streets ahead in terms of passenger comfort to a Class 142 and also much quieter than any Sprinter. If we wanted new EMUs to go with the wires then we most probably wouldn't have got any electrification at all in the North West. Basically Class 319s will do for now?
     
  27. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Better than nothing; but the company that's released the 319's has newer trains to replace them, why couldn't they keep the 319's and US have the newbies? Oh, we're in the north, sorry, I forgot.
     
  28. Arriva 175

    Arriva 175 Member

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    Govia Thameslink Railway makes more money and carries more passengers. The 319s aren't long enough for the trains that run down South where as up North unfortunately a 2 car is more than adequate for most off peak journeys and also Northern itself requires a truck load of subsidy.
     
  29. td97

    td97 Member

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  30. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    You mean like all those modern trains on TPE (which until recently were the top of the "TOC with the youngest fleet" lists)?

    Can you really picture 8 or 12-coach 700s pottering around in the north?
     
  31. palmersears

    palmersears Member

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    Absolutely I can. Sadly I can't find that many places for them to call at without 8 coaches-worth of passengers having to move down the train to get off...
     

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