• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

The driver's view: 'The memory of a rail suicide never leaves you'

Status
Not open for further replies.

Stampy

Member
Joined
21 Sep 2014
Messages
377
Location
Peterborough
Not a driver, but once witnessed a suicide at Werrington Jct, just North of PBO in 1988...

Was actually coming home on my pushbike, and approached the "crossing" - as there's now a Green Bridge there... - and looking left and right, saw a HST approaching from the South, so I stopped, raised my arm in a "thumb's up" to the driver.

There was a chap in the "island" between the Stamford lines and the Main lines - and I saw him standing there looking at the train, and I assumed he's done the same as me (waiting for the train to pass).

I then heard a horn from the North so looked there to see a train in the distance, and as I looked back to where the HST was - I just heard a THUD.... :o

Turned out he'd waited, and walked out in front of the train...

Left my details with the BTP and they took a statement from me, a few days after dropping me off home..

I still cross that bridge now, going to work..... :o
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

neilb62

Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
267
Location
Darwen.
A few years after my first (of two) we moved from near London to Lancashire and I changed TOC's. One Sunday I made a brew and sat down in the lounge with the paper, glancing down the garden the bloke I hit was standing at the garden gate staring at me.... The hairs on my are are standing up as I write this.
Years on I'm still nervous of sudden bangs, the last time my wife dropped a plate on our flagged floor I nearly died. She 'gets it' bless her and I doubt it'll ever go away. That sound will live with me for ever.
 

silverfoxcc

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2012
Messages
436
I cannot even begin to try and feel what you all went through. Thank you for writing, it must have taken some effort to do it.
 

Lockwood

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2013
Messages
931
I was at one almost a year and a half ago, some BTP offiers said it was the worst that any of them had seen for years.
It was my first (and so far only) one under.

I can still remember the scene, the bits were mostly recognisable, that there was one large structure that I did not recognise from any textbook.

It was my first time walking on the track. I'd seen YouTube videos about track safety, but still didn't appreciate how many slip/trip hazards there are, or how big a step you have to take to step over a running rail and the third rail.

It was at first lit solely by hand torches, on a stretch of line with 4 tracks. The fire and rescue service came along to help with their big lights, but by the time they had arrived and collected all the equipment for that we'd already finished on our side - recognised as life extinct from major trauma and resuscitation would be futile.


I don't like thinking about what the aftermath looked like. I was informed that the person had deliberately stepped out from behind lineside equipment into the four foot and adopted a position where they knew what was coming and wanted it to happen - I can't even begin to imagine what the driver must have experienced to see it happen.

I've not had as much need to use that line as a passenger for a while since I now drive beyond there and get a train for the last bit. I was a passenger there earlier this year and recognised points on the platform. "That's where we waited for the juice to be turned off." "That's where we dumped all the kit." "That's where they came from." etc.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
I was involved in a fatality earlier this year. A late evening train, busy, lots of people becoming agitated over missing trains home etc, in addition to keeping tabs on the Driver, liasing with Control regarding staff coming on site, supporting the on the on board staff who were supplying refreshments and fielding all manner of enquiries themselves, and going trackside with keys and various other required bits and bobs for the NR and BTP chaps as needed. A rather long night, all in all, as it generally tends to be.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mpthomson

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2016
Messages
948
I see your point, but in this specific case, would it be/is it appropriate to let a driver go on without proper care after such a thing?

I know at least one fellow driver who choose not to speak to anyone after a woman killed herself under his train. Well, when you talk about that with him it is clear enough that something is still bothering him a lot.

I see why compulsory counselling is considered wrong, but would it be worst choice?

Counselling is fine when it's wanted and necessary and is used properly. However there are some people who just don't need it after an incident, whether they're train drivers, soldiers, whoever, and to provide them with counselling just pathologises the incident ie tries to make them 'ill' when they really aren't.

The critical bit post-trauma isn't the counselling, it's identification of those that need help, whether that's by self-referral or suggestion/monitoring by suitably qualified by people who work for the TOCs. The military use a system called TRiM (Trauma Risk Management) for exactly this purpose, to identify those who may need extra support.

We're supposed to feel terrible after involvement in a traumatic incident, and that's normal and healthy. A large number of people are able to process and rationalise the incident and carry on, even though they'll never forget it. Others need help with techniques on how to do this and it's those people that psychological interventions are appropriate for, not the first group.

And in answer to your last question, yes it would be the wrong choice. There's a significant and accepted body of research that states that blanket counselling, or use of systems like Critical Incident Stress Debriefing actually causes worse outcomes in the long run as it makes people who aren't 'ill' ( a gross over-simplification but hopefully you get my drift) think that they are.
 

HarleyDavidson

Established Member
Joined
23 Aug 2014
Messages
2,529
Seen the aftermath of numerous suicides and attempts to do it, I've had one myself, if I have to pass it to clear the line, then I just look away, but generally I just see the body as a largeish piece of meat, I've become a bit hardened to it now.

The only one I can have empathy for is one of my colleagues who've had to go through the same thing as I did. I have several colleagues who have had multiple suicides and between them they've had iirc about 18 at the last count.
 

whoosh

Established Member
Joined
3 Sep 2008
Messages
1,361
Driver A in his first year had someone jump off a bridge hitting his windscreen.

Driver B killed two people at once, a Father and Son. He didn't see them as he was passing through a well lit station and they were in the darkness beyond, off the platform ramp. He found out when the Signaller stopped him and he went to use the signal post telephone. Quite a mess on the front and on the driver's door handrails apparently. That was in his first year driving too.

Driver C had a very near miss with a man at a level crossing who stood in the 'four foot' with his arms out in a crucifix position. It was such a near miss that he disappeared beneath the level of the windscreen before diving out if the way. Upon stopping the man was standing in the 'four foot' of the other track. Cue emergency call to Signaller etc.
A mere matter of days later another man ran in front of his HST at a different location and the body, missing the from lower jaw upwards and knees downwards, was lodged in the emergency coupling hatch - the cover for it being cast aside on impact.
That was about 14 months after passing out as a driver.
A few years later, the same driver had someone run out, and, "You could see the anger on his face, he couldn't even wait for me to get there, and came running towards me down the track shouting."

Driver D hit a person who jumped in front of him at a little used station. The inside of the cab had cracks down it, and the headlight receptacle was bent and twisted, along with the horns. The person's shoe which they'd been knocked out of, sat on the platform for the next few days.

Driver E had had his forth fatality and felt pressurised by his management and the Occupational Health department into returning to work.

Driver F had a woman kneel down, put her head over the rail, and gripped the rail with her hands. Instinctively, she moved her hands out of the way before she was run over. A dark red, almost black mark along the side of the train.
At the Coroner's Court, the Coroner asked the Jury if there were any questions. One man asked, "Could you not have swerved?"
The Coroner replied that trains run on rails and that the Driver did not have to answer.

Driver G was stopping at a station and only doing about 20mph when a woman ran out and jumped. Driver G went into severe shock, had to be given drugs by Paramedics and was taken to hospital. At Casualty a nurse opened the curtain to his cubicle and cheerfully announced, "Oh you'll be alright, there's people in a worse state than you. There's a woman next door who's been hit by a train!"
Pointing to his namebadge, Driver G said, "I know, I'm the ***king Driver!!!"


Driver H had a fatality which was such a big life event for him, that he went on a crusade to get the phone number for the Samaritans put at the end of platforms. He wanted something good to come out of his unfortunate experience, and his hope that if just one person at least, were to ring the number instead of going through with jumping in front of a train, then that would be a positive thing to happen. The roll-out of the signs took place, and is a good idea to be commended.

Driver I had a man commit suicide at the foot crossing of his Home town. It turned out that the man was the son of Driver I's next door neighbour.

Driver J had worked on the footplate for about twenty years, enjoyed his job, and had bought a model HST to display in a glass case at home. Statistics caught up with him, and someone committed suicide under his train. The power car he was driving had the same number as one of the power cars on his model.
A couple of years went by and another person jumped in front of his train. The power car he was driving this time had the same number as the other power car on his model.
Therapy, and a struggle back to work, but didn't want to let two rubbish days ruin twenty-odd years.
Then another couple of years and a third suicide. Found it very hard going - it wasn't something you 'get used to'.

Remember Andy Botham the Driver from the article? ALL the above Drivers were his colleagues at the time of the incidents, and all except Driver A and Driver J were based at his depot.
It's not an exhaustive list!

One thing that annoys me is seeing flowers pop up as some sort of tribute. Every time I see one I think, "I'm sure the Driver involved doesn't want reminding!"
Put them at the person's favourite spot, or on their grave. Not where the Train Driver who ran them over has to pass them.
 

380101

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2015
Messages
998
Driver H had a fatality which was such a big life event for him, that he went on a crusade to get the phone number for the Samaritans put at the end of platforms. He wanted something good to come out of his unfortunate experience, and his hope that if just one person at least, were to ring the number instead of going through with jumping in front of a train, then that would be a positive thing to happen. The roll-out of the signs took place, and is a good idea to be commended.

One thing that annoys me is seeing flowers pop up as some sort of tribute. Every time I see one I think, "I'm sure the Driver involved doesn't want reminding!"
Put them at the person's favourite spot, or on their grave. Not where the Train Driver who ran them over has to pass them.

The Samaritans signs started appearing at high risk stations on routes I drive about 3 years ago. Most of them attached to the posts with our stop markers on. Most of these have now been moved away from the platform ends due to complaints from drivers. It only encourages at risk people to stand at the platform edges which was not ideal in their situation.

I wholeheartedly agree with the flowers being left at platfors. They just act as reminders to the drivers. Our company station cleaning teams are pretty on the ball and get them removed quickly.
 

Mathew S

Established Member
Joined
7 Aug 2017
Messages
2,167
Most of them attached to the posts with our stop markers on. Most of these have now been moved away from the platform ends due to complaints from drivers. It only encourages at risk people to stand at the platform edges which was not ideal in their situation.
Hadn't thought of that. In our neck of the woods they seem to be on the fence/wall/etc. at the back of the platform, as far away from the track as possible. This is probably why. Still think it's a good idea.
 

380101

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2015
Messages
998
Hadn't thought of that. In our neck of the woods they seem to be on the fence/wall/etc. at the back of the platform, as far away from the track as possible. This is probably why. Still think it's a good idea.

I agree they are worth having. I'e had 3 near misses in 5 years. First was not long after passing out and was in the dark. 2 people taking a shortcut across the tracks on a left hand bend. They made it onto the other track just as my headlight picked them out. The second one was around 8am and the guy was standing at the platform edge as I was on final approach to the station. He jumped down into the 4 foot as I got to the platform ramp. I stopped about a coach length away from him. He had misjudged my speed and later told my guard after he got on the train he had "dropped his keys". The third one was at a level crossing protected by half barriers. Woman in a motorised wheelchair just kept going on the non barrier side of the road. I banged it into emergency and she vanished from view. I looked out the cab side window to see her about turned and motoring back up the street.
 

LOL The Irony

On Moderation
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
Driver A in his first year had someone jump off a bridge hitting his windscreen.

Driver B killed two people at once, a Father and Son. He didn't see them as he was passing through a well lit station and they were in the darkness beyond, off the platform ramp. He found out when the Signaller stopped him and he went to use the signal post telephone. Quite a mess on the front and on the driver's door handrails apparently. That was in his first year driving too.

Driver C had a very near miss with a man at a level crossing who stood in the 'four foot' with his arms out in a crucifix position. It was such a near miss that he disappeared beneath the level of the windscreen before diving out if the way. Upon stopping the man was standing in the 'four foot' of the other track. Cue emergency call to Signaller etc.
A mere matter of days later another man ran in front of his HST at a different location and the body, missing the from lower jaw upwards and knees downwards, was lodged in the emergency coupling hatch - the cover for it being cast aside on impact.
That was about 14 months after passing out as a driver.
A few years later, the same driver had someone run out, and, "You could see the anger on his face, he couldn't even wait for me to get there, and came running towards me down the track shouting."

Driver D hit a person who jumped in front of him at a little used station. The inside of the cab had cracks down it, and the headlight receptacle was bent and twisted, along with the horns. The person's shoe which they'd been knocked out of, sat on the platform for the next few days.

Driver E had had his forth fatality and felt pressurised by his management and the Occupational Health department into returning to work.

Driver F had a woman kneel down, put her head over the rail, and gripped the rail with her hands. Instinctively, she moved her hands out of the way before she was run over. A dark red, almost black mark along the side of the train.
At the Coroner's Court, the Coroner asked the Jury if there were any questions. One man asked, "Could you not have swerved?"
The Coroner replied that trains run on rails and that the Driver did not have to answer.

Driver G was stopping at a station and only doing about 20mph when a woman ran out and jumped. Driver G went into severe shock, had to be given drugs by Paramedics and was taken to hospital. At Casualty a nurse opened the curtain to his cubicle and cheerfully announced, "Oh you'll be alright, there's people in a worse state than you. There's a woman next door who's been hit by a train!"
Pointing to his namebadge, Driver G said, "I know, I'm the ***king Driver!!!"


Driver H had a fatality which was such a big life event for him, that he went on a crusade to get the phone number for the Samaritans put at the end of platforms. He wanted something good to come out of his unfortunate experience, and his hope that if just one person at least, were to ring the number instead of going through with jumping in front of a train, then that would be a positive thing to happen. The roll-out of the signs took place, and is a good idea to be commended.

Driver I had a man commit suicide at the foot crossing of his Home town. It turned out that the man was the son of Driver I's next door neighbour.

Driver J had worked on the footplate for about twenty years, enjoyed his job, and had bought a model HST to display in a glass case at home. Statistics caught up with him, and someone committed suicide under his train. The power car he was driving had the same number as one of the power cars on his model.
A couple of years went by and another person jumped in front of his train. The power car he was driving this time had the same number as the other power car on his model.
Therapy, and a struggle back to work, but didn't want to let two rubbish days ruin twenty-odd years.
Then another couple of years and a third suicide. Found it very hard going - it wasn't something you 'get used to'.

Remember Andy Botham the Driver from the article? ALL the above Drivers were his colleagues at the time of the incidents, and all except Driver A and Driver J were based at his depot.
It's not an exhaustive list!

One thing that annoys me is seeing flowers pop up as some sort of tribute. Every time I see one I think, "I'm sure the Driver involved doesn't want reminding!"
Put them at the person's favourite spot, or on their grave. Not where the Train Driver who ran them over has to pass them.

These accounts should be told in schools to deter trespass/suicide on the railways. Make people think about the people left when the are gone.
 

Mathew S

Established Member
Joined
7 Aug 2017
Messages
2,167
These accounts should be told in schools to deter trespass/suicide on the railways. Make people think about the people left when the are gone.
I can't vouch for any school other than my own, of course, but I vivdly remember a train driver coming into my primary school - I must have been nine or ten - and talking about this. I grew up in Wigan, quite close to the WCML, so he spoke about the consequences of a collision with a high speed train. Suffice to say that it's stuck with me every since.
 

LOL The Irony

On Moderation
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
I can't vouch for any school other than my own, of course, but I vivdly remember a train driver coming into my primary school - I must have been nine or ten - and talking about this. I grew up in Wigan, quite close to the WCML, so he spoke about the consequences of a collision with a high speed train. Suffice to say that it's stuck with me every since.
Show 10 year olds Killing Time?
 

Chris M

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2012
Messages
1,057
Location
London E14
I think it was BTP who came to my primary school (near-ish the ECML between Northallerton and Darlington) when I was about 8 or 9 I think. This was all about don't trespass, don't play on railway lines, OHLE is dangerous, etc. I don't recall anything being mentioned about consequences for anyone other than yourself, and not in graphic detail. This was late 1980s, so it wouldn't surprise me if the timing was related to the electrification reaching that part of the world.
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,688
Location
Devon
Driver A in his first year had someone jump off a bridge hitting his windscreen.

Driver B killed two people at once, a Father and Son. He didn't see them as he was passing through a well lit station and they were in the darkness beyond, off the platform ramp. He found out when the Signaller stopped him and he went to use the signal post telephone. Quite a mess on the front and on the driver's door handrails apparently. That was in his first year driving too.

Driver C had a very near miss with a man at a level crossing who stood in the 'four foot' with his arms out in a crucifix position. It was such a near miss that he disappeared beneath the level of the windscreen before diving out if the way. Upon stopping the man was standing in the 'four foot' of the other track. Cue emergency call to Signaller etc.
A mere matter of days later another man ran in front of his HST at a different location and the body, missing the from lower jaw upwards and knees downwards, was lodged in the emergency coupling hatch - the cover for it being cast aside on impact.
That was about 14 months after passing out as a driver.
A few years later, the same driver had someone run out, and, "You could see the anger on his face, he couldn't even wait for me to get there, and came running towards me down the track shouting."

Driver D hit a person who jumped in front of him at a little used station. The inside of the cab had cracks down it, and the headlight receptacle was bent and twisted, along with the horns. The person's shoe which they'd been knocked out of, sat on the platform for the next few days.

Driver E had had his forth fatality and felt pressurised by his management and the Occupational Health department into returning to work.

Driver F had a woman kneel down, put her head over the rail, and gripped the rail with her hands. Instinctively, she moved her hands out of the way before she was run over. A dark red, almost black mark along the side of the train.
At the Coroner's Court, the Coroner asked the Jury if there were any questions. One man asked, "Could you not have swerved?"
The Coroner replied that trains run on rails and that the Driver did not have to answer.

Driver G was stopping at a station and only doing about 20mph when a woman ran out and jumped. Driver G went into severe shock, had to be given drugs by Paramedics and was taken to hospital. At Casualty a nurse opened the curtain to his cubicle and cheerfully announced, "Oh you'll be alright, there's people in a worse state than you. There's a woman next door who's been hit by a train!"
Pointing to his namebadge, Driver G said, "I know, I'm the ***king Driver!!!"


Driver H had a fatality which was such a big life event for him, that he went on a crusade to get the phone number for the Samaritans put at the end of platforms. He wanted something good to come out of his unfortunate experience, and his hope that if just one person at least, were to ring the number instead of going through with jumping in front of a train, then that would be a positive thing to happen. The roll-out of the signs took place, and is a good idea to be commended.

Driver I had a man commit suicide at the foot crossing of his Home town. It turned out that the man was the son of Driver I's next door neighbour.

Driver J had worked on the footplate for about twenty years, enjoyed his job, and had bought a model HST to display in a glass case at home. Statistics caught up with him, and someone committed suicide under his train. The power car he was driving had the same number as one of the power cars on his model.
A couple of years went by and another person jumped in front of his train. The power car he was driving this time had the same number as the other power car on his model.
Therapy, and a struggle back to work, but didn't want to let two rubbish days ruin twenty-odd years.
Then another couple of years and a third suicide. Found it very hard going - it wasn't something you 'get used to'.

Remember Andy Botham the Driver from the article? ALL the above Drivers were his colleagues at the time of the incidents, and all except Driver A and Driver J were based at his depot.
It's not an exhaustive list!

One thing that annoys me is seeing flowers pop up as some sort of tribute. Every time I see one I think, "I'm sure the Driver involved doesn't want reminding!"
Put them at the person's favourite spot, or on their grave. Not where the Train Driver who ran them over has to pass them.

Thanks for taking the time to post this woosh.
Having worked with adults that were coping with mental health problems in the past, your post has really made me think today. In fact I can’t shake some of the images from my mind and I shared some of this with a couple of people that worked in my then profession that are still friends.

To all drivers out there - When things go wrong and you find yourself in an unstoppable situation with the dreadful certainty dawning on you of what’s about to occur. Do not in the aftermath put any of this on yourselves. The people who end their lives in this way want their lives to end. This is not a cry for help - this is a dead cert way to end the suffering that they are feeling and the desperation in life that most of us thankfully will never experience.
You were just driving the machine, and not one of those people that have done this to themselves would have wanted to damage your lives in any way.

I remember one guy that I used to support who lived in Crediton when I worked for Social Services and who walked the Barnstaple to Exeter Line one night with the intention to kill himself and luckily he went out after the last train... If he’d been an hour earlier then he’d have achieved his goal and there’d be another poor driver out there struggling to come to terms with what he’d seen and heard.

A couple of years ago I heard that there was a suicide in Topsham on the Exmouth branch. I later found out that it was my first teacher at Topsham first school who I’d know since I was seven years old. She was in her seventies and had struggled with depression her whole life. I spoke to a friend who knew someone who’d had the last conversation with her before she’d ended it all. What she’d said still haunts me but I can’t share it here.

For those of sound mind it’s hard to comprehend what it must feel like when you can’t rely on your own mind for strength/comfort/clarity and sanctuary.

Where is there to go if you don’t have that safety of mind?

This thread has been difficult to read at times but compelling and valuable.
Thanks to all contributers.
 
Last edited:

Mathew S

Established Member
Joined
7 Aug 2017
Messages
2,167
This thread has been difficult to read at times

Indeed.

For those of sound mind it’s hard to comprehend what it must feel like when you can’t rely on your own mind for strength/comfort/clarity and sanctuary.

Okay. So I suffer from depression, and have done for many years. Back in 2014, I had what I can only sensibly describe as a breakdown and was at the lowest point I have ever been. I was, genuinely, suicidal. You are quite right, @Cowley, that the most terrifying part of it was not being able to trust my own mind not to betray me.

Living as I do in close proximity to a high speed railway line, taking my own life on the railway was something that came to mind more than once. Why didn't I? Honestly, I'm not sure. Probably because I never quite reached that final tipping point. That said, even the little understanding which I have of the impact on drivers/passengers/guards/etc. did make me think.

Honestly, I believe telling stories about the impact on others does reduce the risk. There were times, and I'm sure this isn't just me, when I was actively trying to think of ways of doing it that wouldn't have hurt/imapacted others. Fortunately, I failed. I don't like to imagine what would have happened had I not.

Where is there to go if you don’t have that safety of mind?

That is an excellent question. Personally I'm incredibly lucky to have had family, friends, colleagues, and a GP who bent over backwards to help me when I needed it most. Too many people don't have those things, and unfortunately the impact is all too painful to see.

Having the Samaritans phone number there; training staff - and the public, frankly - in the fact that often all it takes is a conversation about the weather; anything at all that might give someone in those final desperate moments a little human contact will, I have no doubt,save lives.
 

MarkWi72

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2017
Messages
243
Yes, thankyou too all the contributors. I second what is said above.
When I was at school every year in primary and Secondary we had a train driver come to talk to us. For several years it was the same driver. We saw a few of the stock videos of the times about railway trespassing. I lived near the Birmingham to Wolverhampton section of the Stour Valley line - a busy section - and the main issue was to deter kids from climbing the catenary/signal gantries and being fried by the 25kV overheads.
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,688
Location
Devon
Indeed.



Okay. So I suffer from depression, and have done for many years. Back in 2014, I had what I can only sensibly describe as a breakdown and was at the lowest point I have ever been. I was, genuinely, suicidal. You are quite right, @Cowley, that the most terrifying part of it was not being able to trust my own mind not to betray me.

Living as I do in close proximity to a high speed railway line, taking my own life on the railway was something that came to mind more than once. Why didn't I? Honestly, I'm not sure. Probably because I never quite reached that final tipping point. That said, even the little understanding which I have of the impact on drivers/passengers/guards/etc. did make me think.

Honestly, I believe telling stories about the impact on others does reduce the risk. There were times, and I'm sure this isn't just me, when I was actively trying to think of ways of doing it that wouldn't have hurt/imapacted others. Fortunately, I failed. I don't like to imagine what would have happened had I not.



That is an excellent question. Personally I'm incredibly lucky to have had family, friends, colleagues, and a GP who bent over backwards to help me when I needed it most. Too many people don't have those things, and unfortunately the impact is all too painful to see.

Having the Samaritans phone number there; training staff - and the public, frankly - in the fact that often all it takes is a conversation about the weather; anything at all that might give someone in those final desperate moments a little human contact will, I have no doubt,save lives.
I tried to think of a reply for a bit Mathew and eventually realised that the best thing I could do was just take in what you were actually telling us.

I hope some of these last few posts have helped throw a light on the other side of things.
The more you understand about people’s situations, the more you can see the bigger picture and perhaps come to terms with it in whatever side of the awful situation you find yourself in.

As an aside, my Grandmothers Dad (my great grandfather) committed suicide in front of a steam train somewhere near Colchester in the 1930s when my Gran was about 16. When we as a family look back upon this event even 80 years later we can see how it’s subtlety effected the family through the generations... It absolutely devastated my Grandmother.

When I heard about the suicide in Topsham I immediately contacted a friend who drives on that line to check that he wasn’t involved - i.e driving that particular train.
He wasn’t thankfully, but he knew the guy that was...

Probably these things will always happen and as said earlier - it’s a dead cert for people who’ve reached breaking point and genuinely need to end their lives because they can’t cope anymore.

It’s a disjointed world. Take the time to talk to people that you don’t know, even if it feels uncomfortable at times. Everyone has a story and everyone has something they can teach you.
 

alxndr

Established Member
Joined
3 Apr 2015
Messages
1,467
Honestly, I believe telling stories about the impact on others does reduce the risk.

It can be very difficult to do, but I agree.

When I was about 13 we had a—perhaps ill thought out—drama lesson which involved discussing a suicide on the London underground and acting out either the whole thing, or just the aftermath. I think this was one of the first times which suicide was discussed in any depth in school, particularly in terms of what it's like for any other parties involved. It's stuck with me ever since; I can even still remember the date.

I walked out (and a couple of other people left too for various reasons, hence thinking it wasn't particularly well-handled) and it threw my head into a very strange place for a while, but it was the catalyst for getting to talk about how I'd been feeling and some of the issues that I was struggling. Ultimately it didn't help much, but that was a failing of the mental health services, and the majority of people did try their best to help as much as they can. If it hadn't been discussed then I would imagine it would have taken a lot longer to get to the point that I admitted that I had been struggling for some time.

There were times, and I'm sure this isn't just me, when I was actively trying to think of ways of doing it that wouldn't have hurt/impacted others. Fortunately, I failed. I don't like to imagine what would have happened had I not.

You're certainly not alone in this, and it's a horrible set of thoughts to have whirling around your head, even ending up at the point of resenting those who would be hurt for being a barrier to doing it. I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone who says that anyone who considers ending it hasn't thought of those around them. Chances are that they have, a lot.
 

SPADTrap

Established Member
Joined
15 Oct 2012
Messages
2,352
Along with jumping off something high, I believe it is the most ‘effective’ way. Too many things go ‘wrong’ with most other methods.

One of the reasons we end up with so many people in front of us attempting to take their lives is because they also believe what you say here. The reality is the last 6 on the line I used to drive all survived just with horrific life altering injuries. Each of those people intended on taking their lives. One was a second attempt who fell further into despair after the first attempt left them wheelchair bound, the second only made it worse but they're very much alive. Things can and do 'go wrong' with this method too. It's nothing like a 'dead cert' which is an incredibly ironic statement. It can be very surprising.
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,688
Location
Devon
One of the reasons we end up with so many people in front of us attempting to take their lives is because they also believe what you say here. The reality is the last 6 on the line I used to drive all survived just with horrific life altering injuries. Each of those people intended on taking their lives. One was a second attempt who fell further into despair after the first attempt left them wheelchair bound, the second only made it worse but they're very much alive. Things can and do 'go wrong' with this method too. It's nothing like a 'dead cert' which is an incredibly ironic statement. It can be very surprising.

Apologies, I should have worded that differently last night but I’m not going to alter it now as you’ve succinctly laid out what can really happen and put it into context.
 

SPADTrap

Established Member
Joined
15 Oct 2012
Messages
2,352
Apologies, I should have worded that differently last night but I’m not going to alter it now as you’ve succinctly laid out what can really happen and put it into context.
Oh not at all, I guess it is just horribly variable. I wasn't being funny though, sorry if that came across as such.
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,688
Location
Devon
Oh not at all, I guess it is just horribly variable. I wasn't being funny though, sorry if that came across as such.
Not at all SPADTrap, it was an important point to make.
 

Harbouring

Member
Joined
20 Jul 2017
Messages
262
Another interesting drivers story in the MEN http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...?ptnr_rid=93408&icid=EM_MEN_Nletter_DailyNews
It’s surely every train driver’s nightmare; being at the controls when someone crosses the tracks to take their own life.

And for months after it happened to Sean Tansey it’s all he could think about.

The dad-of-three and driver of 17 years, from Bury, said: “Even now, 10 years later, I can still picture his face. He looked straight up at me. It’s as clear now as it was then.”

After that day, Sean’s nightmares lasted months....

Similar sort of things and goes into detail about the Samaritans new campaign.

Thanks to all the contributors to this thread over the past few days, it’s an important and interesting discussion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

PudseyBearHST

Member
Joined
28 Sep 2015
Messages
965
Location
South West


This is an interesting video about the drivers' side of fatalities albeit in Australia. Some interesting things to note:

1. There are some bizarre incidents where family/friends of the deceased actually decide to blame the driver for the incident- in one example, some friends found out the driver's name and they graffitied his name to the side of a train and then put the word 'killer' beside it.

2. Of course, the emotional side of seeing such an incident has been discussed in depth; but there are some incidents from around the world where the driver sustains a physical injury which can be life changing (not sure if this is common in the UK?)- for example, I remembering hearing a Loco Engineer in America who broke his back after colliding with a vehicle- Least of all, an end to his train driving career.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top