bramling
Veteran Member
Entirely within our controls actually. EU freedom of movement just meant that we couldn't...
Can’t you see the contradiction there?
Entirely within our controls actually. EU freedom of movement just meant that we couldn't...
The HMG spends 0.7% of its budget on foreign aid. This compares to ~31% on social care, ~18% on health, ~13% on Education and ~6% on defence. It really is a drop in the bucket.We also should be tackling issues such as homelessness, drug/alcohol abuse, armed forces veterans, unemployment etc.
Help those in need aboard but don’t forget about those in need closer to home.
Nope. Because as the rest of the sentence says "...refuse someone entry based solely on their nationality."Can’t you see the contradiction there?
Nope. Because as the rest of the sentence says "...refuse someone entry based solely on their nationality."
We could refuse entry to whomever we wanted on any grounds other than nationality. Which is only right, since if we could reject people based solely on nationality how is that any different to rejecting entry solely on their race, sexual orientation, gender identity or religion?
What a lot of people seem to fail to realise is that freedom of movement is based on the idea that all EU citizens have equal rights - making discrimination based on nationality just as unacceptable as any of the abovementioned protected characteristics.
Not, however, solely on nationality.Having said that if a country is going to operate an immigration system then it’s pretty inevitable that choices will have to be made based on nationality, simply as a means of controlling numbers.
Not, however, solely on nationality.
Or are you saying that all people from Country A should be allowed in and all people from Country B should be denied?
Oh, nationality should absolutely form part of the decision-making process. But it should not ever be the sole determining factor.I’m saying that the decision should be made by the government, and if nationality is included in the decision-making process then fine if that’s what the electorate want.
For travel between the UK and Ireland, nothing will change. For travel between the UK and the EU we don't know yet. It all depends on the terms that are negotiated. At best, nothing will change, at worst we'll be treated the same as a lot of third-party countries and require a visa to enter the Schengen area.It sometimes feels like they do so deliberately to either imply nothing will change, or will change in a negative way, as necessary to support their opinion on leaving the EU.
The current default position is that a UK citizien will be required to obtain an online visa waivure valid for 90 days at a cost of 10e, a small price for entry to the open borders and easy enough to complete, we already have similar when we journey to US etc.For travel between the UK and Ireland, nothing will change. For travel between the UK and the EU we don't know yet. It all depends on the terms that are negotiated. At best, nothing will change, at worst we'll be treated the same as a lot of third-party countries and require a visa to enter the Schengen area.
The most likely (I hope) outcome will be visa-free travel much like today, but that depends entirely on what the UK demands of the EU.
All our MEP's and commissioners, the opt-outs and the vetos. Now they've gone, in order to trade and travel with the EU we will have to accept their rules and have no say.What mechanism was (*) realistically available to change or update those laws?
.
Wrong.The hypothetical example of the EU citizen who wants to illegally enter and remain I'm the UK in future via Ireland is surely a myth. Their journey will be no different to today. The same passport check into Ireland, the same passport check less journey into the UK. The only difference is they won't have the automatic right to stay and work in the UK, because Freedom of Movement will have gone.
As someone else said, why would you go to the bother of going to Ireland first? You'd just legally enter the UK directly then illegally stay.
For travel between the UK and Ireland, nothing will change. For travel between the UK and the EU we don't know yet. It all depends on the terms that are negotiated. At best, nothing will change, at worst we'll be treated the same as a lot of third-party countries and require a visa to enter the Schengen area.
The most likely (I hope) outcome will be visa-free travel much like today, but that depends entirely on what the UK demands of the EU.
Well maybe you need to start a thread on the subject of people smuggling. Incidentally you have misspelled "ancillary", just trying to be helpful.
The actual price isn't the issue, one problem is that it takes at least 72 hours to process, which prevents the "get up and go" traveller, again not really a problem as most plan ahead. One area I can see concern is if someone's son/daughter/relative is abroad on a school trip/holiday etc and has an accident, their parents may find it difficult to get to them within a few hours like they can today.The current default position is that a UK citizien will be required to obtain an online visa waivure valid for 90 days at a cost of 10e, a small price for entry to the open borders and easy enough to complete, we already have similar when we journey to US etc.
Yes.You mention Ireland, so would we if going via Ireland to Italy for example still get passport checked when we enter Italy in much the same way it happens today?
Yes. Ireland is (for now at least) remaining in the CTA with the UK and not joining the Schengen area.You mention Ireland, so would we if going via Ireland to Italy for example still get passport checked when we enter Italy in much the same way it happens today?
The question is, why should the French co-operate with us now we're a third country and the French could simply wave the refugees on their way?I would like to see the French border controls almost turning a blind-eye to illegal immigrants trying to get in the UK. It would take a huge load off the French , passing it on to the Brits.
After all, all these people want to enter the UK and not stay any length of time on the Continent. Just rewards for this almighty cock-up that is Brexit.
UK operates the juxtaposed border controls at the ports.I would like to see the French border controls almost turning a blind-eye to illegal immigrants trying to get in the UK. It would take a huge load off the French , passing it on to the Brits.
After all, all these people want to enter the UK and not stay any length of time on the Continent. Just rewards for this almighty cock-up that is Brexit.
Our "relationship" with the Republic, the CTA, by default actively prevents Ireland joining the Schengen zone. If Ireland wanted to join Schengen, then it would ave to abandon the CTA and place checks on us (and Visas/ETIAS's).Yes. Ireland is (for now at least) remaining in the CTA with the UK and not joining the Schengen area.
Ireland can never leave the CTA, free movement across all Ireland is constitutional, so never in Schengen.Yes. Ireland is (for now at least) remaining in the CTA with the UK and not joining the Schengen area.
For travel between the UK and Ireland, nothing will change. For travel between the UK and the EU we don't know yet. It all depends on the terms that are negotiated. At best, nothing will change, at worst we'll be treated the same as a lot of third-party countries and require a visa to enter the Schengen area.
The most likely (I hope) outcome will be visa-free travel much like today, but that depends entirely on what the UK demands of the EU.
For travel between the UK and Ireland, nothing will change. For travel between the UK and the EU we don't know yet. It all depends on the terms that are negotiated. At best, nothing will change, at worst we'll be treated the same as a lot of third-party countries and require a visa to enter the Schengen area.
The most likely (I hope) outcome will be visa-free travel much like today, but that depends entirely on what the UK demands of the EU.
We operate the controls on French soil.The question is, why should the French co-operate with us now we're a third country and the French could simply wave the refugees on their way?
What would the situation be should (probably when) Ireland re-unite? Then they can have total freedom across the land and join Schengen and drop the CTA.Ireland can never leave the CTA, free movement across all Ireland is constitutional, so never in Schengen.
Our "relationship" with the Republic, the CTA, by default actively prevents Ireland joining the Schengen zone. If Ireland wanted to join Schengen, then it would ave to abandon the CTA and place checks on us (and Visas/ETIAS's).
I agree with you on that - and vice-versa, it doesn't make sense to actively cut off a stream of income. But if both sides insist on further checks, I reckon it would affect the UK more than the EU based onThe invisible elephant in the room is the much proposed but still unimplemented ETIAS scheme for travel authorisation into the Schengen zone. If it ever does come about, it will inevitably have exceptions to cover the EU's own exceptions, notably Ireland. An exception for the UK would be logical, not least for geographic consideration of the British Isles.
As much as I'm a detractor, I genuinely cannot see a situation where the EU would actively prevent travel from the UK. Damage limitation on the EU's part or not, it would be silly and wildly unpopular with many member states, particularly but not only Spain. I don't think they are that silly.
The ETIAS will be 100% necessary for those not requiring visas. No way round that unless both sides can knock their heads together. It's not a "red herring" it's totally gonna happen.This is more misinformation. Checks would be required on the Schengen border, but not necessarily visas. Countless external countries have visa-free travel to Schengen countries. ETIAS is a red herring, it is not a visa replacement.
and the French tell us to "clear off..."?We operate the controls on French soil.
An e application prior to travel.The invisible elephant in the room is the much proposed but still unimplemented ETIAS scheme for travel authorisation into the Schengen zone. If it ever does come about, it will inevitably have exceptions to cover the EU's own exceptions, notably Ireland. An exception for the UK would be logical, not least for geographic consideration of the British Isles.
As much as I'm a detractor, I genuinely cannot see a situation where the EU would actively prevent travel from the UK. Damage limitation on the EU's part or not, it would be silly and wildly unpopular with many member states, particularly but not only Spain. I don't think they are that silly.
Completing an online waivure form on line then passing through an e gate at the arrival point is not going to deter any traveller.I agree with you on that - and vice-versa, it doesn't make sense to actively cut off a stream of income. But if both sides insist on further checks, I reckon it would affect the UK more than the EU based on
- we don't have the weather so will walk on nails to get Mediterranean sunshine/Alpine snow etc and a bit of a form won't get in the way (unless you're a criminal or have a severe medical condition)
- the UK doesn't have such a pull on Europeans, sure they like London, our countryside, Scotland etc but why would they spend £75+ on a new passport (when they can't use their ID card) whe there is plenty of other Euro cities/countryside to visit instead?
So the UK has to be careful what it wishes for.
But generally, the EU should treat the UK as the exception to the rule, at least for tourism.