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The future does not look good for 141108

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NorthernSpirit

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I dont think pacers would suffer shortages of spare tbh. Most other modern units share similar parts. It's only bodywork that is different.
Also,anyone purchasing a Pacer for preservation is unlikely to just let it rot so to speak.
Maybe scrap merchants taking Pacers on can sell components to the preservation market for further use if need be. They have lasted over 30 years so far as a stop gap! With enough tlc,I wouldnt expect they'd be left to just fall apart with considerable use and only little maintenance.

Once the class 150's and 153's are retired from service, I can imagine seeing them being canabalised for mechanical spares to keep the preserved Pacers going.

I can only see 150001 and 150002 being retained for preservation, the rest of the class 150 fleet going the same way as most of the Merseyrail Pacers have = in bits.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Once the class 150's and 153's are retired from service, I can imagine seeing them being canabalised for mechanical spares to keep the preserved Pacers going.

I can only see 150001 and 150002 being retained for preservation, the rest of the class 150 fleet going the same way as most of the Merseyrail Pacers have = in bits.
When their time comes the three-car 150s might present more of a burden for preservationists, in terms of both parts and space. That might be one of the reasons that only one 3-car 144 has so far been offered a retirement home. Preserved railways tend to use DMUs on early morning runs and other quieter times so two cars should suffice. The two prototypes are arguably historically significant but they still have a handful of differences from the others so might be more troublesome to keep going.

I'd also expect that railways who have secured a Pacer would be less likely to also want a Sprinter:- as others have said there's a limited audience for such units compared to kettles.

I'm slightly surprised that Llangollen haven't acquired a Pacer, as they seem to have a bit of a thing for DMU preservation!
 

43096

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Once the class 150's and 153's are retired from service, I can imagine seeing them being canabalised for mechanical spares to keep the preserved Pacers going.

I can only see 150001 and 150002 being retained for preservation, the rest of the class 150 fleet going the same way as most of the Merseyrail Pacers have = in bits.
I would see it another way: once the Class 156 fleet starts to become surplus, I would see them as being far more attractive to preserved railways than the uncomfortable, poor-riding, rancid Pacers.
 

IamTrainsYT

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When their time comes the three-car 150s might present more of a burden for preservationists, in terms of both parts and space. That might be one of the reasons that only one 3-car 144 has so far been offered a retirement home. Preserved railways tend to use DMUs on early morning runs and other quieter times so two cars should suffice. The two prototypes are arguably historically significant but they still have a handful of differences from the others so might be more troublesome to keep going.

I'd also expect that railways who have secured a Pacer would be less likely to also want a Sprinter:- as others have said there's a limited audience for such units compared to kettles.

I'm slightly surprised that Llangollen haven't acquired a Pacer, as they seem to have a bit of a thing for DMU preservation!
I have been on the ELR and they had a class 122 and a class 108 coupled on busy services. at smaller railways (eg. Chasewater) they plan to use them on most of there services in the short term
 

IamTrainsYT

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I would see it another way: once the Class 156 fleet starts to become surplus, I would see them as being far more attractive to preserved railways than the uncomfortable, poor-riding, rancid Pacers.
I have to agree that 156s are better, they are quiet and fast! However there’s nothing special about a 156 and at this point we might aswell be preserving class 195s!
 

capital12

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I would see it another way: once the Class 156 fleet starts to become surplus, I would see them as being far more attractive to preserved railways than the uncomfortable, poor-riding, rancid Pacers.

I agree with that, even the 150s would better in some respects.

One thing that intrigues me with all these preserved lines taking Pacers is the fact that they weren’t a resounding success on branch lines in Cornwall due to the curvature of the lines.

Are most of the lines taking them now relatively straight or do they have large budgets for wheel sets? Or are they going to see such infrequent use that it’s not going to be an issue for some time?!
 

eldomtom2

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I'm slightly surprised that Llangollen haven't acquired a Pacer, as they seem to have a bit of a thing for DMU preservation!
Aren't Llangollen having fairly serious financial issues at the moment? New stock acquisition would therefore seem to be unwise in the circumstances...
 

Bletchleyite

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Aren't Llangollen having fairly serious financial issues at the moment? New stock acquisition would therefore seem to be unwise in the circumstances...

Often it's not the railway that buys stock anyway (other than a load of Mk1s to stick behind whatever it is) - it is often preservation groups who have a railway as their home. If the railway folds, it'll get moved elsewhere.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Aren't Llangollen having fairly serious financial issues at the moment? New stock acquisition would therefore seem to be unwise in the circumstances...
If they are, that won't help... if they're struggling I may look into having a trip over there to help them out. I'm quite a fan of old DMUs anyway. I'll have to look into getting there by public transport though.
 

randyrippley

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I dont think pacers would suffer shortages of spare tbh.
Most other modern units share similar parts.
It's only bodywork that is different
Also,anyone purchasing a Pacer for preservation is unlikely to just let it rot so to speak.
Maybe scrap merchants taking Pacers on can sell components to the preservation market for further use if need be.
They have lasted over 30 years so far as a stop gap! With enough tlc,I wouldnt expect they'd be left to just fall apart with considerable use and only little maintenance.

You're going to be hard pushed to find spare engines or engine parts for a 141, while SCG gearboxes will be more or less impossible to find. You could re-engineer the 141 to take engine and transmission from a later model, but that will cost: you might as well use a 142/3/4 instead and save yourself the hassle. There's nothing exactly remarkable about a 141 that deserves preservation, if anything their non-standard design renders them fit for scrap. Narrow bodies causing access problems. Non-standard engine and transmission which renders them unsustainable for regular reliable use. If you get one working, the first time it fails it will never be used again.
Scrap them
 

Edders23

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I suspect that the one belonging to LSL is for his museum project at Margate so the broken gearbox won't matter as it is going to sit in a museum
 

EvanDMU

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Aren't Llangollen having fairly serious financial issues at the moment? New stock acquisition would therefore seem to be unwise in the circumstances...
Just to make it absolutely clear all the DMUs at Llangollen are either owned or leased by Llangollen Railcars Ltd, which is a completely independent charity which has no financial connection with the railway itself. See www.llangollenrailcars.co.uk for more information
 

ed1971

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You're going to be hard pushed to find spare engines or engine parts for a 141, while SCG gearboxes will be more or less impossible to find. You could re-engineer the 141 to take engine and transmission from a later model, but that will cost: you might as well use a 142/3/4 instead and save yourself the hassle. There's nothing exactly remarkable about a 141 that deserves preservation, if anything their non-standard design renders them fit for scrap. Narrow bodies causing access problems. Non-standard engine and transmission which renders them unsustainable for regular reliable use. If you get one working, the first time it fails it will never be used again.
Scrap them

The TL11 engine was used a lot in Leyland buses and coaches from the early 1980s, so parts should still be obtainable. It was an updated and turbocharged version of the O.680, which itself was an enlarged version of the highly regarded O.600 from after WWII. I believe that until recently copies of O.680s and TL11s were manufactured by polish companies including Jelcz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelcz

The Pacers had a lot different character when they had the original drivetrains. After all the 142s had been fitted with Voith gearboxes by March 1991, I used to go a lot to West Yorkshire to ride on the Class 141s.

I have often wondered how feasible it would be to swap the SCG R500 gearbox on a Class 141 for a more reliable R14 gearbox that were used on the majority of first generation DMUs. It would probably be necessary to swap the final drives as the first generation DMUs have the reversing gear built into the final drive. LEV 1 was built with an R14 gearbox.

Apparently the preserved Class 141 bubble car RB004 is still in use complete with a Leyland TL11 engine and SCG R500 gearboxes. https://preserved.railcar.co.uk/RB004.html
 
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Journeyman

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Would “Sense” on a preserved railway not be to sell it onto another preserved railway. Rather than scrapping part of history?

You can only sell it to another preserved railway if another preserved railway wants it.
 

alexl92

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I read that one of the gearboxes on 141108 is seized and would have to be replaced rather than repaired; the lack of spare parts available has prevented this.
 

Malcmal

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I read that one of the gearboxes on 141108 is seized and would have to be replaced rather than repaired; the lack of spare parts available has prevented this.

Surely this would make an epic episode of Car SOS :D
Actually on that topic they seem to be able to rebuild any kind of gearbox, engine, mechanism etc - so I am surprised that a seized gearbox is the kiss of death for this unit?
 

alexl92

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Surely this would make an epic episode of Car SOS :D
Actually on that topic they seem to be able to rebuild any kind of gearbox, engine, mechanism etc - so I am surprised that a seized gearbox is the kiss of death for this unit?

I may of course have mis-understood or got my facts mixed up so take with a pinch of salt!
 

Journeyman

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There were many offers from what I understood from parties interested in preserving it however they decided to scrap it

I think you're being unnecessarily harsh here. It's well known that this unit was in non-working condition, with spares potentially a major problem, so any railway bidding for it would need to factor in the resources required to get it running, and the risk that it may not be possible to do so.

It sounds to me like it was very close to no-hoper territory, and in that case it'll have a higher scrap value than it will as a restoration project.
 

ed1971

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The 140 also has those parts I believe.
I seem to recall reading that the 140 had an SCG gearbox that was developed from the R14 but was not the R500. The R500 was developed from this gearbox. Although the sound quality is poor, a video of the Class 140 being trialled on Youtube seems to show that it sounds more like a first generation DMU.
 
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ed1971

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I read that one of the gearboxes on 141108 is seized and would have to be replaced rather than repaired; the lack of spare parts available has prevented this.

I recall that BR was having problems like this all the time causing major disruption to services and the substitution of loco hauled trains or other DMUs in the late 1980s. The SCG 'boxes had the forward/reversing gear on the input side of the gearbox which was a major design flaw. As the components in the gearbox operate in both directions, the brake bands soon wore out. It would have required a major redesign exercise to remedy it and BR had Voith gearboxes fitted to all Class 142, 143 and 144 units. The 141s were kept in service with the SCG gearboxes removed from the later classes of Pacers, but I read that towards the end they were running out of serviceable gearboxes.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Apparently the preserved Class 141 bubble car RB004 is still in use complete with a Leyland TL11 engine and SCG R500 gearboxes. https://preserved.railcar.co.uk/RB004.html
Apologies for the pedantry, but that isn't technically a class 141 and was never classified as one.

One of the LEV units was in the yard of a museum in Scranton, Pennsylvania for a while. Fun fact, that's the same Scranton that "played" Slough in the US version of The Office- which I'm currently binge-watching due to the lockdown!
 

pieguyrob

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There are two pictures of it in the current edition of Tracks, the ICRS magazine. The captions with the photos state it is there for a repaint.
 

Rikki Lamb

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I think you're being unnecessarily harsh here. It's well known that this unit was in non-working condition, with spares potentially a major problem, so any railway bidding for it would need to factor in the resources required to get it running, and the risk that it may not be possible to do so.

It sounds to me like it was very close to no-hoper territory, and in that case it'll have a higher scrap value than it will as a restoration project.

Only what they told me when I queried it with them...
 

AHoseason

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Would “Sense” on a preserved railway not be to sell it onto another preserved railway. Rather than scrapping part of history?

One of the aspects here would be that the Weardale was not a preserved railway, just a private one, though a preservation society of sorts does exist
 
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clagmonster

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The Railcar Association website confirms that 141108 is owned by Locomotive Services Limited, as speculated earlier in the thread.
 
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paul1609

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One of the aspects here would be that the Weardale was not a preserved railway, just a private one, though a preservation society of sorts does exist
Technically under ROGS there is no such category as preserved railway. Its a "Heritage, Museum or Tourist Railway operating on its own network" and the Weardale is listed as one of these along with all the others (NYMR, ELR etc)
 
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