The future of "in branch" banking.

[bramling]

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Another one is banks. I thought they’d largely gone back to full opening hours - clearly not as I’ve just found out, my local branch still closing at 1300. It’s been quite clear they’ve relished the opportunity to try and push as much activity as possible away from the branches to online. It’s a bit difficult to withdraw a sum of cash online!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s a bit difficult to withdraw a sum of cash online!

It's fairly easy to withdraw up to about £300 (depending on your bank) from an ATM. Above that, these days you are almost certain to find a better way of payment. For instance I recently sold a car and was paid by Faster Payments, I stood there phone in hand waiting for the money to arrive, and when it did handed over the keys.

I did once buy a used car for about £1K cash[1], but that was before Faster Payments were a thing. I think other than that about £250 is the largest cash transaction I have ever made. The last few cars I bought I paid by BACS. I paid for one by debit card a while ago!

That just leaves people paying builders in cash to evade tax, and I have this >< amount of sympathy for those people.

[1] Which was taken out from ATMs over about 3-4 days rather than over the counter.

 

[bramling]

It's fairly easy to withdraw up to about £300 (depending on your bank) from an ATM. Above that, these days you are almost certain to find a better way of payment. For instance I recently sold a car and was paid by Faster Payments, I stood there phone in hand waiting for the money to arrive, and when it did handed over the keys.

I did once buy a used car for about £1K cash[1], but that was before Faster Payments were a thing. I think other than that about £250 is the largest cash transaction I have ever made. The last few cars I bought I paid by BACS. I paid for one by debit card a while ago!

That just leaves people paying builders in cash to evade tax, and I have this >< amount of sympathy for those people.

[1] Which was taken out from ATMs over about 3-4 days rather than over the counter.

I don’t necessarily disagree, however if they offer a service then they should provide it. In my case the money is for a birthday gift, and whilst I could have done it differently I wanted it to be as a cash sum.

I also had some other business to do in the branch, so I wasn’t impressed to find it closed, and I mean fully closed not just no counter service, by early afternoon. To me that’s just taking the proverbial, especially as having checked on their website beforehand there was no mention of reduced hours.

What’s the betting this becomes permanent? There have already been some banks announcing branch closures citing lack of use, yet it seems they’re all going out of their way to make branches impossible to use. I can’t use it if it’s closed! No doubt when I return tomorrow morning there will be a massive queue, just to add insult to injury.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What’s the betting this becomes permanent?

Certain. Branch banking is dead. All that's in question is how long the death throes are.

 

[bramling]

Certain. Branch banking is dead. All that's in question is how long the death throes are.

Yet whenever I visit the bank, it invariably ranges from pretty busy to packed, and that’s little different now despite it having been made a distress experience. As I say, it seems to be a case of literally preventing people from using the branches, and then claiming no one uses them.

They were of course the pioneers of the “floorwalker” concept, which the railway has started to copy (especially TFL). My local branch used to have a whole circle of cashier desks, from memory at least five, then when it went to floorwalkers it reduced to two. Theres pretty much always queues ever since.

(The topic of businesses using Covid as an excuse to make changes is an interesting one, not sure if it merits its own thread?)

 

[HSTEd]

Yet whenever I visit the bank, it invariably ranges from pretty busy to packed, and that’s little different now despite it having been made a distress experience. As I say, it seems to be a case of literally preventing people from using the branches, and then claiming no one uses them.

Well we'd expect it tobecome busier as the number of branches collapses and opening hours get shorter.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Certain. Branch banking is dead. All that's in question is how long the death throes are.

I walked past the (large) Royal Bank of Scotland branch in town on Saturday and there was at least 4 or 5 people queuing outside to get in, so evidently not.

 

[DB]

I walked past the (large) Royal Bank of Scotland branch in town on Saturday and there was at least 4 or 5 people queuing outside to get in, so evidently not.

The banks want to kill it off though - much more profitable for them if they are mostly online.

Hence they put all these obstacles In the way to try to drive people into using online services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hence they put all these obstacles In the way to try to drive people into using online services.

I think a lot of people are just really conservative when it comes to banking, or have false fears about security. Online banking, when done well (e.g. Monzo), is very convenient indeed.

The last time I branch banked was twenty years ago. I don't miss it, it's simply a waste of time to have to go somewhere and queue up to achieve something that can be done with a couple of taps on my phone. It simply isn't needed unless what you're after is a chat, and there are better ways of providing facilities for people who live alone to have a chat than the banking system.

The one issue with non-branch banking is paying cash in (cheques can increasingly be paid in by simply taking a photo of them). The Post Office, which will be needed for a good while yet, provides that for most banks (though admittedly not Monzo).

 

[HSTEd]

Internet banks can't teleport me cash can they?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Internet banks can't teleport me cash can they?

You can withdraw it from an ATM.

Who withdraws cash over the counter in 2020?

 

[HSTEd]

You can withdraw it from an ATM.

If you can find an ATM that doesn't charge a fortune for the privilege.

Most of the ATMs in my hometown are in bank branches!

Also what if I want coin?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you can find an ATM that doesn't charge a fortune for the privilege.

The way things are going, a £1.99 charge every blue moon is not going to kill anyone. Pay by card whenever possible and you maybe need fifty quid a month, or a hundred every two, so that would cost you a piffling £12 a year.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Who withdraws cash over the counter in 2020?

*slowly raises hand...*

 

[birchesgreen]

If you can find an ATM that doesn't charge a fortune for the privilege.

Most of the ATMs in my hometown are in bank branches!

Also what if I want coin?

I don't know of an ATM in my local area which charges, i'm sure there are some but not many.

You can also cashback from shops, and i believe they are changing it so you don't have to make a purchase first.

 

[radamfi]

If you can find an ATM that doesn't charge a fortune for the privilege.

Thousands of cash machines may be closed

Up to 30,000 ATMs could go following changes to the fees that operators are paid, Link warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

says there were 30,000 free cash machines in 2005.

The latest LINK annual report says at December 2019 there were 15,563 cash machines at bank branches and 29,451 cash machines elsewhere

https://www.link.co.uk/media/1638/link-annual-report-19-20-final.pdf

Why do we need 50% more machines than we did in 2005?

 

[Gloster]

Who withdraws cash over the counter in 2020?

I haven’t used an ATM for years. I always draw cash from the local branch and pay most of my outgoings in cash (not dodgy builders and other ‘cash in hand wideboys’ as I have no time for those who evade tax): I know where I am then. I have not forgotten the time I returned from a period abroad and tried to use an ATM, only to find that, due to an error by the bank, I was over £600 overdrawn. I had to raid my telephone money to get something to eat that night.

 

[HSTEd]

Why do we need 50% more machines than we did in 2005?

Because the number of branches has gone off a cliff?

 

[Darandio]

If you can find an ATM that doesn't charge a fortune for the privilege.

Other than those small terminals that started appearing in places such as corner shops and amusement arcades i've never seen an actual cashpoint that charges for withdrawals in at least 5-6 years.

 

[radamfi]

I haven’t used an ATM for years. I always draw cash from the local branch and pay most of my outgoings in cash (not dodgy builders and other ‘cash in hand wideboys’ as I have no time for those who evade tax): I know where I am then. I have not forgotten the time I returned from a period abroad and tried to use an ATM, only to find that, due to an error by the bank, I was over £600 overdrawn. I had to raid my telephone money to get something to eat that night.

I always "know where I am" even though I don't use cash unless I'm forced to, mostly by small shops which don't accept cards. I simply look at the app on my phone. Before smartphones, I looked online on my computer. Before the internet, I visited ATMs to get the up-to-date balance.

If you had a credit card, such a bank error, no matter how rare, would not be an issue.

 

[Bald Rick]

Back to the OP - Of course it might be as simple as they are short staffed due to illness.

But cash use is unquestionably reducing. I never see queues outside the ATMs near me now, whereas 2-3 years ago you’d often have to queue. And I just don’t use cash at all, save for my barber who is still cash only.

 

[radamfi]

Because the number of branches has gone off a cliff?

You could never rely on branches given their restricted opening hours. Cash machines have long been more accessible. Nearly every village has a cash machine or post office where you can withdraw cash.

There was a news article a few years ago ridiculing the massive increase in free cash machines in town and city centres. It was profitable for the cash machine providers to open more and more machines because of the generous commissions. Those incentives have gone to alleviate the unnecessary overprovision.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Back to the OP - Of course it might be as simple as they are short staffed due to illness.

But cash use is unquestionably reducing. I never see queues outside the ATMs near me now, whereas 2-3 years ago you’d often have to queue. And I just don’t use cash at all, save for my barber who is still cash only.

And we will soon reach the point where it's fair to say "if you wish to use cash, pay the cost of doing so, because that's your choice and others should not subsidise it".

Once you get rid of cash, exactly what useful purpose does branch banking serve?

 

[87 027]

Who withdraws cash over the counter in 2020?

Fine for individuals but spare a thought for treasurers of school PTAs, scout and guide groups and such like who need to withdraw sizeable cash floats in coins to be able to give change at events like the annual Christmas Fair. It's impractical to have, say, 15-20 stalls all collecting card payments via iZettle

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fine for individuals but spare a thought for treasurers of school PTAs, scout and guide groups and such like who need to withdraw sizeable cash floats in coins to be able to give change at events like the annual Christmas Fair. It's impractical to have, say, 15-20 stalls all collecting card payments via iZettle

Treasurers of charities tend to have business accounts (of some kind - charity accounts are basically fee-free or low-fee business accounts). They would therefore use the methods of obtaining floats that businesses use. Most probably this would, in the long term, involve a delivery rather than going to a branch.

And yes, I do know first-hand, I'm a signatory on a Scout Group bank account.

That said, I suspect the future of such events would likely be that you go and purchase vouchers at a single desk with a card machine and use those around the fete at the stalls.

 

[island]

That said, I suspect the future of such events would likely be that you go and purchase vouchers at a single desk with a card machine and use those around the fete at the stalls.

I’ve arranged something similar at a church fête to accommodate folks preferring to use card, although we just had a small number of roaming users with iZettles and anyone wanting to take a card payment just held up a coloured laminated card to attract the attention of the nearest person.

 

[cactustwirly]

I think a lot of people are just really conservative when it comes to banking, or have false fears about security. Online banking, when done well (e.g. Monzo), is very convenient indeed.

The last time I branch banked was twenty years ago. I don't miss it, it's simply a waste of time to have to go somewhere and queue up to achieve something that can be done with a couple of taps on my phone. It simply isn't needed unless what you're after is a chat, and there are better ways of providing facilities for people who live alone to have a chat than the banking system.

The one issue with non-branch banking is paying cash in (cheques can increasingly be paid in by simply taking a photo of them). The Post Office, which will be needed for a good while yet, provides that for most banks (though admittedly not Monzo).

I've used the bank to pay in cheques, that's it.
Now Santander ATMs will actually allow you to pay in cash and cheques, so you don't need to go in branch anymore.

 

[CC 72100]

The problem I have with banks deliberately making branches so awful to use is that they have certain actions which require them.

You want me to do everything online and not use a branch? I'm cool with that. But in that case, let me be able to do it online. If you are going to drive me that way, then go the full distance and don't leave certain things that are 'branch only' but awkward to do as a result. That helps no-one.

Take Nationwide for example. As I only have a savings account with them, to change my address I need to either print off a form and post it or go into branch. Not exactly 21st century options.

I do think COVID is being used as an excuse to grind down the branch network and make the remaining ones as unfriendly to use as possible to force people into online, with poor opening times (ie. Monday - Friday 10am - 3pm... well that is flexible for people who work full time on a M-F week?!). That's actually a shame, as where I have needed to use the branch in recent months, the staff have been without exception, across several banks, excellent.

 

[jfollows]

I would only go to a bank to pay in a cheque, and I haven't had to do this for a while now.
I haven't used an ATM for cash since February either; ordinarily I use cash occasionally but not any more.
One of the last times I went to a bank branch was to pay in a US$ cheque (check), and was told that I couldn't. Since I knew that I could, I persevered. But what's the point of interacting with a person when the person you're interacting with hasn't been trained properly? No thank you, once NatWest enables me to pay in cheques without having to go to a branch I can't ever see going there again (and I don't expect to get US$ cheques in future either).

 

[Non Multi]

I've used the bank to pay in cheques, that's it.
Now Santander ATMs will actually allow you to pay in cash and cheques, so you don't need to go in branch anymore.

As long as the machine can actually read what's written on the cheque... If not, it comes straight back to you and you have to trudge over to the person behind the counter.