The Future of the Snow Hill Lines

[centraltrains]

According to wiki, Tyseley saw 2200,00 passengers in 2016/17 and Small Heath saw in the region of 163,000. Fairly reasonable figures in my opinion; in contrast, Solihull saw 1,884,000 and Shirely had 362,000.

Spring Road gets less than Tyseley yet Spring Road gets the more frequent service, really annoys me more than it should for some reason. I'd perhaps like to see one of the stops taken off Spring Road and substituted for Tyseley instead...

 

[STKKK46]

Connections at Tyseley have been really poor for years.

 

[STKKK46]

Apologies, I should have detailed the above comment a little more.

Travelling from say Olton to Hall Green with current Tyseley connections seems like a real pain - I’d use the bus. The timetable is designed around 1 train towards Dorridge an hour and one towards the Shakespeare line from Tyseley. They also tend to work on a clockface style timetable and this applies in both directions.

It may be great for Tyseley residents to know they have trains at a certain time every hour, however, surely the service provider should be looking at Tyseley as a station for connections to and from each branch?

I personally wouldn’t like to change at Tyseley with anything more than a 5 minute wait. It isn’t particularly pleasant there at all... however with lifts installed, a permanent ticket office and better connections, I can’t help but feel that there’s a lot more potential in that station.

 

[centraltrains]

I personally wouldn’t like to change at Tyseley with anything more than a 5 minute wait. It isn’t particularly pleasant there at all... however with lifts installed, a permanent ticket office and better connections, I can’t help but feel that there’s a lot more potential in that station.

Thoes steps at Tyseley aren't exactly fun. Think some slower people might need more than 5 minutes...

 

[boxy321]

The trouble with additional stops for the local trains is that there's always a Chiltern train minutes behind them. They often have to queue up waiting to use Moor Street.

Olton to Hall Green takes 15 mins on the bus.

 

[centraltrains]

The Whitlock's Starter which doesn't stop at Tyseley or small Heath usually ends up crawling outside Moor Street waiting for a service to cross over from platform 3/4. Could use that time for an additional Tyseley stop...

If it was just one convenient connection an hour it would be a nice option for those who would prefer rail over bus. The wait between the Shirley to Solihull direction is currently 19 minutes which is about reasonable. The other way it's a 30 minute wait stopping the xx:50 from Moor street would save a lot of time and have hardly any impact...

 

[Harbornite]

Thoes steps at Tyseley aren't exactly fun. Think some slower people might need more than 5 minutes...

I'd say it takes 1 minute and a half from the bottom of the stairs on one island to get to the bottom of the stairs of the other. Obviously there aren't lifts at the station so times can't be discussed for them, which is unfortunate for slower people. However, most people should be able to make a 5 minute connection there.

 

[centraltrains]

I'd say it takes 1 minute and a half from the bottom of the stairs on one island to get to the bottom of the stairs of the other. Obviously there aren't lifts at the station so times can't be discussed for them, which is unfortunate for slower people. However, most people should be able to make a 5 minute connection there.

You haven't seen my mother's speed of getting up those stairs.... Maybe if time limits were imposed for connection it would be quicker! I would be worried about 2-3 min delays on a 5 minute connection.

 

[Noddy]

Olton to Hall Green takes 15 mins on the bus.

That’s ok during the day but at rush hour you could be waiting 30 min for a series of late buses to turn up. If Tysley was in London it would be a busy interchange station with frequent services on both routes.

 

[boxy321]

That’s ok during the day but at rush hour you could be waiting 30 min for a series of late buses to turn up. If Tysley was in London it would be a busy interchange station with frequent services on both routes.

I'm more than aware of the daily gridlock that affects Solihull. Just take the No. 6 for example: 40+ minutes to Brum vs 9-11 on the train.

 

[thenorthern]

With the Chiltern franchise due to expire in 3 years time I would expect that improvements to the Snow Hill lines will come with the new franchise. The current franchise will run for 19 years which is quite a long time for a franchise to run.

 

[centraltrains]

With the Chiltern franchise due to expire in 3 years time I would expect that improvements to the Snow Hill lines will come with the new franchise. The current franchise will run for 19 years which is quite a long time for a franchise to run.

Chiltern only run a minority of Snow Hill services... about 1/4 of trains though Moor Street (a tad more maybe)

 

[BantamMenace]

The yard was used for Land Rovers bound for Italy. Land Rovers produced at Solihull are now sent from Castle Bromwich instead.

Thanks for confirming that my memory was not playing tricks on me.

It does seem to me to be strange that that the Land Rovers have switched to Castle Bromwich.

We dispatch RR Evoques and Discovery Sports from Halewood, Merseyside to Southampton via rail. These are destined for North America and Rest of World (not Europe) markets, with the exception of China where these two models are built in market. Vehicles destined for European markets go by road to mainly Immingham and on to Cuxhaven.

We dispatch Jag XEs, Jag XFs, Jag XJs and Jag F-Types from Castle Bromwich to Southampton via rail. These are destined for North America, China and Rest of World (not Europe) markets. Vehicles destined for European markets go by road to mainly Immingham and on to Cuxhaven.

We dispatch Jag F-PACEs, RR Velar, RR Sport, Range Rovers and LR Discoverys (and formally defenders) from Solihull plant to Immingham and Southampton all by road at a rate of nearly 20 lorries per hour, 24 hours per day, 6 days per week, 49 weeks of the year. Rail doesn't provide the capacity, cost or reliability necessary to support these movements when they'd need to be loaded onto lorries to get to the nearest railhead and the vehicles are too big to double stack on UK gauge rail.

For completeness, we ship Jag E-PACE and Jag I-PACE from Graz, Austria via road back to the UK via Cuxhaven to Immingham shipping primarily. We will also soon begin shipping LR Discoverys from Nitra, Slovakia around the globe (including back to the UK). Nitra is a rail connected facility that will dispatch to sea ports, currently trains through the Channel Tunnel are not planned.

I had tried to find out why, the only answer seems to be the use of Castle Brom railhead (opened 2003) instead. I'd been aware of Jags being loaded there but I've only seen pics from the last few months of Land Rover products on trains from Castle Bromwich.

If you have any pictures I would be interested to see them, I am not aware of any Solihull to Castle Brom lorry moves for onward rail transport and currently no Land Rovers are built at Castle Bromwich, nor have there ever been any.

 

[Harbornite]

If you have any pictures I would be interested to see them, I am not aware of any Solihull to Castle Brom lorry moves for onward rail transport and currently no Land Rovers are built at Castle Bromwich, nor have there ever been any.

Thanks for your informative post. The movement of land rovers from Brom seems to be a fairly recent development, the trains are distinctive due to the lack of the usual covered wagons.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/66200_6O30_Hat_150218
http://www.petertandy.co.uk/66055_6O30_Hat_060218

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/Recentpics.html

 

[Harbornite]

I should add that there were once plans to connect Lode Lane to the rugby-stafford loop so that cars could be dispatched that way but it never happened.

 

[iainbhx]

Spring Road gets less than Tyseley yet Spring Road gets the more frequent service, really annoys me more than it should for some reason. I'd perhaps like to see one of the stops taken off Spring Road and substituted for Tyseley instead...

Spring Road is probably undercounted, it could really do with a car park, kindly leave my 20 minute service alone, if you want more grab one of the Dorridges they get too much priority anyway.

The comments about Small Heath and Tyseley and the 37 are all very well except the 37 is very slow during the peaks often taking 20-30 minutes to reach the City Centre (and don't even mention the 31). The only use I make of it is to go to Solihull.

It is worth noting that from when I started commuting on the line four years ago the 07:13 Spring Road to Moor Street has gone from about 80% full to "a handful of seats" and the 07:37 has gone from standing room only to "you aren't getting on at Small Heath".

 

[jimm]

Thanks for your informative post. The movement of land rovers from Brom seems to be a fairly recent development, the trains are distinctive due to the lack of the usual covered wagons.

Not strictly true - while the bulk of the rake being used for this service carrying Land Rover products is made up of flat wagons, some of the DB covered car carriers are normally included at the north end of the formation, so would be out of the shot round the curve at Hatton in the photos you linked to. Protective plastic coverings are used on the windscreens and bonnets of most of the vehicles being carried on the flat wagons.

Re the main topic in hand, as a past user of Spring Road I would completely agree with the points above - quite how the usage figures work out I'm not sure, as far more people always seemed to get on and off there than at Tyseley, where there aren't that many houses near the station anyway, with a large area to the north of the station occupied by business units and factories. I assume allocating usage from the likes of the Network West Midlands travel cards isn't an exact science.

And even allowing for the low speed of road traffic in the area, I suspect not that many people are using rail to get between Olton and Hall Green, given that Hall Green station isn't exactly at the heart of the area.

 

[Class 170101]

An hourly service is't going to help encourage use of those stations though? However should it be a Hereford to Shrewsbury service it would make better use of New Street's scarce platform resources. It isn't built as a terminal station after all. However it would need to be advertised at both Hereford and Shrewsbury as not going to Hereford or Shrewsbury or some poor passenger could be sent on a very long detour when the direct service by ATW is quicker.

 

[172212]

My thoughts:

Is the 10 minute frequency really necessary? From my own observations the services up and down Old Hill Bank are carrying mostly air during the middle of the day, particularly those which start/finish at Stourbridge Junction. Wouldn't it be better to have a lower frequency so that Worcester services can run non-stop between Stourbridge and Birmingham

I strongly disagree there. Smethwick Galton Bridge serves as an interchange station, I’m such passengers would much rather change there than go all the way to Moor Street/Snow Hill and walk to New St for connections. Blakedown passengers have already lost their direct service to Worcester, why should everybody else?

Never get why Moor Street doesn't announce train lengths but most WMT stations on the line do.

Moor Street do announce carriage numbers now, although I don’t think they get updates of shortened services. I remember getting the 18:27 BSW-SGB, which is always a 170 & 153 - which was announced as a 4 carriage service, yet the 153 was missing

The Whitlock's Starter which doesn't stop at Tyseley or small Heath usually ends up crawling outside Moor Street waiting for a service to cross over from platform 3/4. Could use that time for an additional Tyseley stop...

If it was just one convenient connection an hour it would be a nice option for those who would prefer rail over bus. The wait between the Shirley to Solihull direction is currently 19 minutes which is about reasonable. The other way it's a 30 minute wait stopping the xx:50 from Moor street would save a lot of time and have hardly any impact...

Surely the answer is to add a Tyseley stop for the Stratford - Stourbridge services. Giving 01, 10, 31, 40 frequency pattern at BMO, not perfect, but definitely better than the current 10 & 40

 

[SoccerHQ]

Sketches of the new stations at Kings Heath, Moseley and Hazelwell were released today.

Talk is 2021 as re-opening for line for passenger services. Well overdue.

 

[jimm]

Images and more information here

Plans for three new Birmingham rail stations have today been unveiled as the reopening of the Camp Hill Line to passenger services takes another step forward.
Under the proposals the line, reopened to passenger services for the first time since the Second World War, would initially have three stations at Moseley, Kings Heath and Hazelwell.

https://www.tfwm.org.uk/news/designs-unveiled-for-three-new-rail-stations-in-birmingham/

 

[boxy321]

Solihull's buses (and roads) are not fit for purpose. The 3 cars on the drive and nothing in the fridge mentality is prevalent. WMT's services put people off as there are no seats unless you are a commuter in the know. The council paint over the cracks with new block paving and other nonsense but the burough is broken. The trains I see entering Moor St every morning are rammed but there's no plan to sort it. The pedestrian experience outside Wetherspoons on Station Road is glorious though.

 

[STKKK46]

Capacity is at such a premium on the Snow Hill Lines at the moment there isn’t much that can be done. No room for extra services, no extra carriages and even then, no room to call longer trains at a lot of the stations with no room for platform extensions.

Great for the Camp Hill towns if they get their service back but pathing issues (a circular service may JUST work) and lack of carriages will just cause more issues elsewhere.

Will take a huge amount of investment to make the Midlands any more efficient.

 

[boxy321]

Capacity is at such a premium on the Snow Hill Lines at the moment there isn’t much that can be done. No room for extra services, no extra carriages and even then, no room to call longer trains at a lot of the stations with no room for platform extensions.

Great for the Camp Hill towns if they get their service back but pathing issues (a circular service may JUST work) and lack of carriages will just cause more issues elsewhere.

Will take a huge amount of investment to make the Midlands any more efficient.

I fully agree but the 172 'buses' could be made longer. Solihull<>Moor St is hurrendous.

 

[STKKK46]

I fully agree but the 172 'buses' could be made longer. Solihull<>Moor St is hurrendous.

It absolutely is. But to make them longer you’d have to extend I believe, Lapworth, Widney Manor, Olton and Acocks Green platforms. This may be slightly inaccurate but haven’t got official lengths in front of me.

 

[boxy321]

Horrendous.

Anyway, Solihull council are trying to reduce car use. Standing only with 200 students giggling and playing gangster rap will not get people onto the railway. Even today half the single stairwell was taped off. It's the poor option and the posh Brummies won't change until the situation is improved considerably. Next thing there'll be a petition to get the school run drivers to use indicators.

 

[centraltrains]

It absolutely is. But to make them longer you’d have to extend I believe, Lapworth, Widney Manor, Olton and Acocks Green platforms. This may be slightly inaccurate but haven’t got official lengths in front of me.

172s work with SDO though? When the new 172s came in I remember hearing short platform announcements for Spring Road (and others I can't remember). There is still a 6 car diagram down that line very early in the morning, I should imagine this would still use SDO...

I think the Snow Hill line is getting new trains in a few years time from the CAF order? WMT are getting a net gain by around 20 carriages in DMUs overall AND Chase Line will no longer need Diesels making a lot more carriages available across the remaining diesel lines?

 

[SoccerHQ]

In fairness I don't travel from Solihull-Brum and back in the morning rush hour but do on occasions in the evening between 4-6pm.

Trains are busy but never seen them totally rammed.

If the 4 train is busy I just wait for a Chiltern to turn up 5 minutes later, even better if it's the 7 carriage from Marylebone.

I generally find the Snow Hill line trains very nice to ride, Chiltern excellent of course and the 4 car WMT sets are air conditioned, spacious and generally fine to be on even if it's packed. So much better than the awful set they used to have that now seems to do Brum-Hereford.

Certainly a far better experience than getting on the cross city line back to Sutton at half 5 from New Street when you are crammed in like sardines particularly if there's a delay and there is 15-20 minutes between services.

 

[xc170]

On Monday I did the Snow Hill to Stratford Upon Avon route and did the return, calling at Solihul at about 5pm (ish), while it was busy, it was nothing compared to some of the peak time XC 170 services out of New Street...

 

[STKKK46]

172s work with SDO though? When the new 172s came in I remember hearing short platform announcements for Spring Road (and others I can't remember). There is still a 6 car diagram down that line very early in the morning, I should imagine this would still use SDO...

I think the Snow Hill line is getting new trains in a few years time from the CAF order? WMT are getting a net gain by around 20 carriages in DMUs overall AND Chase Line will no longer need Diesels making a lot more carriages available across the remaining diesel lines?

I thought the 172s were UDS, in which case they’d be a nightmare to work on a peak service. If they’re SDO I believe that makes life a lot easier.

Then the issue comes in to play of how many 172s can run in service together.. You don’t get any 3x172 services although there are a couple of ECS moves.

Agreed about the new stock and diesels but the diesels freed up by the Chase Line I thought were the 170s (and a 153) that won’t be with WMR for much longer.

Then we have the inevitable issue of can the 196(?)s run in multiple with 172s and all that comes with any new stock!