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The Great Circular European Railway Challenge

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Golghar

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Now that I have developed dispepsia from your discourse on "food", I can only say that many of you will be anxiously awaiting your arrival in Budapest for the antidote!

High capsaicin food to leach out all the offal consumed till the arrival in Budapest! My culinary experience of the Carpathian Basin showed that this region is in this respect an even match for Andhra Pradesh, which has something of a reputation in subcontinental terms.

@Glenmutchkin
You were eager for a philatelic connection, so here it is! I have linked with the page with the "railway" stamps. By navigating back and forth you get to know about how Hungarian hyperinflation impacted on postal services. I think this was the most extreme case of its kind anywhere in the world. If your screen is in some places showing you a question mark within a tilted square, the word is to be read
Adópengő
Some of the text may sound politically biased, e.g.
For the "Russification" of Hungary, the Russian Army sent specially trained, fanatic Marxists, who were particularly educated in the destruction of national economies, as well as pacification of anyone they considered or identified as enemies of the Soviet system. Their first goal was to ruin the middle and upper classes, and they achieved by constant impression of banknotes, so that money lost its value. Little by little the population had to sell all their possessions in order to have enough money to pay for the absolute basics for survival.
but it is quite informative.

To take a closer look at some of these items and a lot more I recommend the Stamp Museum.

What impressed me most in Budapest was Wekerle Estate. This shows that it is possible to build affordable housing without creating a dreary suburb. It is just a short bus ride from the Határ út metro station.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am intrigued at the possiblity of the chinese building a railway into Burma, and out the other end to Chttagong, and the resultant possible Kanyamkurai to Thurso Tamildonian express.

Meanwhile, that line we wanted to get on GCIRC, north of the Brahmaputra in Assam, is still shut for gauge conversion and no one is prepared to commit to a year, let alone a month, when it will come back. But if China were to even suggest building a railway across that border the Indians would be getting their nukes in twist over it and piling in the troops.

Sorry for digging out this slightly stale post which isn't even relevant to the subject in question.
The rival project to the China-Burma-Chittagong one is this rail-free one.

And as for China suggesting building a railway across the Assam-Tibet border: the powers that be in India would be delighted if that meant China recognizing the border in the first place.
 
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Donbacsi

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Please note they are seperate items and are very different. The park is where you want to go (look it up) an will afford the chance to ride the electric light rail to add miles.
The cousins and neice and nephews aren't just shoppers. You will get a male who speaks perfect English for you to help with tickets, police for the inebriates, etc. In addition, there will be a female to handle the women as they go off to blow your budget on shopping. Of course there will be the ninja shopper and the strong back for all the provisions. In addition, they will all be there to help you get goodies and meals in an expeditious manner. Up to you. After all, you are trying to cart around quite a load of fuzzy headed Englishmen while attempting to accomplish a lot in a little time.
Re: the central market. I can assure you this IS the market for the locals. There are several others in town, but none like this. The only reason they call it the central market is because it literally has everything the town has to offer. When you find yourself rushed at the end of the day you will probably have to push a few little old ladies out of your way to get to your ring stingers!
Re: Hazi palinka (home made palinka) I could arrange to have my cousin bring some in for you. YOu will not have the connects nor the time to find it in the city. I have had some country made 60 year old apple (alma) palinka that was as smooth as anything you have ever tasted.
 
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Mark_Lester

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Please note they are seperate items and are very different. The park is where you want to go (look it up) an will afford the chance to ride the electric light rail to add miles.
The cousins and neice and nephews aren't just shoppers. You will get a male who speaks perfect English for you to help with tickets, police for the inebriates, etc. In addition, there will be a female to handle the women as they go off to blow your budget on shopping. Of course there will be the ninja shopper and the strong back for all the provisions. In addition, they will all be there to help you get goodies and meals in an expeditious manner. Up to you. After all, you are trying to cart around quite a load of fuzzy headed Englishmen while attempting to accomplish a lot in a little time.
Re: the central market. I can assure you this IS the market for the locals. There are several others in town, but none like this. The only reason they call it the central market is because it literally has everything the town has to offer. When you find yourself rushed at the end of the day you will probably have to push a few little old ladies out of your way to get to your ring stingers!
Re: Hazi palinka (home made palinka) I could arrange to have my cousin bring some in for you. YOu will not have the connects nor the time to find it in the city. I have had some country made 60 year old apple (alma) palinka that was as smooth as anything you have ever tasted.
we should do this directly, and thnkyou. we certainly need help in that market. we wont have any girls though, maybe one. and we arent going for the insane tours of cities, we are already doing one of those on a macro scale, city level stuff will be chilled apart from my concerns about getting stocked up for the next leg. primo home made though will be worth purchasing at vintners prices, i know we need contcts for that
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The rival project to the China-Burma-Chittagong one is this rail-free one.

And as for China suggesting building a railway across the Assam-Tibet border: the powers that be in India would be delighted if that meant China recognizing the border in the first place.
sorry missed this.
so why the hell dont they just drive it over that road out of ledo. what i now know from looking t google is that the stilwell is actually in perfect order, i have certainly been on worse roads in india. the burmese side is a bit raggy but they let tourists almost all the way up it. i know the war was all mao's doing, but the longer this goes on the more india looses
 

Golghar

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sorry missed this.
so why the hell dont they just drive it over that road out of ledo. what i now know from looking t google is that the stilwell is actually in perfect order, i have certainly been on worse roads in india. the burmese side is a bit raggy but they let tourists almost all the way up it. i know the war was all mao's doing, but the longer this goes on the more india looses

You were on this thread on Indiamike. #22 is the relevant post. As for the war being Mao's doing - the recent alliance between Nehru and JFK had a lot to do with the escalation as well.
 

Mark_Lester

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oh flashback time, my friend Monisha, who set off on her trip round India, for which she was going to be writing a definitive travel account, without understanding or even properly looking at, the booking system, the timetables or the map of India. Having subsequently complained at not being able to get berths at zero notice, and referred to some poor little 15 year old train wallah as "the biggest duffer I have ever met" cos he couldnt do sums and couldn’t pronounce "egg" to her specification, I took the proverbial out of her and she ended up sending me one of the most abusive emails I've ever received. Which if she ever dares poke her head up again I will publish at the front of GCIRC and reinstate my myrth making at her expense.

I dont know where I developed the belief that the Stillwell is overgrown, but I did read it somewhere. Well, it isnt. You could, potentially, do the whole thing, all the way to Kunming, in a small car.
As for getting the Chinese to agree to anything, I guess this is somethig for me to discuss on IndiaMike and get flamed. They wont, but if you build that railway, and just agree to talk forever and a day (which they love doing) everything changes.
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OK, lets return to the job in hand.
Top of the agenda is working out where we stay in Venice. This cheapy hostel place in Giudecca has awful reviews, and you have to be in the YHA, which at 18 euro sheckles anyway means it's not any cheaper.

I have mailed this lot again http://www.aironehotel.com/, they have another one called canal, http://www.hotelcanal.com/, which is a bit nicer but I cant get a price for next July. For 25th dec it's only 100 euros for a 4 person family room, which would be great as long as they are all separate beds of course.
The other place we found, http://www.anticariva.com/, near to St marks, could only handle about 8, and it's looking like we're 15ish.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
the reviews on the canal hotel are shocking, but what I hate in TA is when someone says "we moved out and found a much better one at the same price, do your research and stay somewhere better", well where for pete's sake !!.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Antica was booked up, 10 months in advance, *sob*.
I think we are going to have to do the lido

this looks good
http://www.hotelvillaparco.com/
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUs...16531122-Villa_Parco_Hotel-Venice_Veneto.html

as does this, though we're creeping over 50 bucks a pit on this one.
http://www.leboulevard.com/hotel.html
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUs...8941250-Le_Boulevard_Hotel-Venice_Veneto.html
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Assuming we are now sorted with this hall of res (I am hoping matteo will ring them up later today) then we just have sarajevo to work out a stop, but we have several candidates for that so I'll start mailing around.

Something a bit more fun and slightly more in keeping with a transport forum, would be to concoct a vaporetto expedition. One problem with Domus Civica is check out time is 10:00, I dunno if there is a locker facility beyond that once you've checked out but I doubt it. However, at 25 quid for a single room, then between 14 of us we could hire an extra day for one of them, or matteo might be able to arrange something. Furthermore, they dont let you out until 7am, though these timetables seem to start at 8 anyway.

So lets assume we dont have the damn bags, (a pack of 14 blokes is scary enough even without the bags), we need to calculate a route, with tandem following services incase we dont all fit on the first one. We need to include a stop off at St Marco's of course, and I'd say a ride eoither way up the central S.

And we're off on the payment!, Caterina at Domus Civica has come back and they have triple rooms available. I've asked her about a bag drop.
I forgot to rebate you that £2.50, we'll do that on the next one, no sound from narvik yet but they've got loads of these huts, I'm sure they have 4 left.
 
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Glenmutchkin

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Now that we are definitely on do we qualify for a Confirmed next to the thread title like all the puny challenges get?

The wordpress site could include some sort of countdown of days to go

A vaporetto tour needs to include a visit to the cemetery island whose name currently escapes me. I shall have to dig out the map.
 

Golghar

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San Michele! Routes 41 and 42 touch it. Route 1 is also interesting as it takes you along the entire Canale Grande, below the Rialto Bridge, past the Doge's Palace and on to the Lido. From the terminus it is but a short walk to the Grand Hôtel des Bains, in front of which Dirk Bogarde expired in "Death in Venice" and Sergei Diaghilev in real life. According to Wikipedia he is buried on San Michele.
Throughout his life, Diaghilev was severely afraid of dying in water, and avoided traveling by boat. He died of diabetes in Venice on 19 August 1929, and is buried on the nearby island of San Michele.
 

Mark_Lester

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st mark's looks great at night, we should certainly do a night run up to there. the hostel locks the doors at midnight though, and we'll want to eat too.

if we can get that obligatory photo shoot out of the way (paul will be able to do some great night shots) then we dont have to do it again in the morning, we could just sail straight past.
we should kick off in the monring with the grand canal. then it's done and you can abort the rest at anytime.

so may be get a bus 1 from the station up past san marco, in order to change onto a 41 which takes round to murano, and thus san michele. then maybe continue on a 41 all the way back through san lucia and right round past guideca and to zaccaria near marco, or may be giorgio on guideca, and then back down the main canal on a 1 or 2. If we are late, sea sick or hungry we can just get off at the station and forget going back round and doing the grand in reverse.
The boats start at 8am I think, we should work out how long that lot takes, I noticed it takes an hour just to get to lido so I scrubbed that.
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duno where i got 8 O'Clock start from, but I think that's early enough anyway. And jeez, it takes an hour to go through the GC to the the far tip of the main island at s. elena. I calculated what my scheme would take, and with half an hour at s elena (or other stop along that stretch), 45 mins at the cemetry, and just 30 mins bas at zaccaria, it's a 5 hour mission!, with about 3 hours worth of boating.

Bus 1 - FERROVIA(S.LUCIA) "E" 08:04 S.ELENA SX 08:54 00:50
Bus 4.1 - S.ELENA SX 09:30 CIMITERO S.MICHELE 10:00 00:30
Bus 4.1 - CIMITERO S.MICHELE 10:45 S.ZACCARIA(JOLANDA) "D" 11:41 00:56
Bus 1 - S.ZACCARIA(DANIELI) "E" 12:11 FERROVIA(S.LUCIA) "D" 12:51 00:40
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
12 hours pass - 18 euros, 24 hours - 20 euros. no brainer. (you knew that I know)

we get in at 19:57, sun sets at 21:00 I think. So it's prob not feasible to do the grand canal as the sun went down unless we can get 14 passes and onto the number 1 bus in 15 minutes flat (number 1 leaves at 20:14), and we'd obviously have to take the bags. So we prob have to settle for going straight for check in, then do a run to marco, but making sure we are back for midnight. the doors shut at 00:30, on the dot, some even say midnight, and that's that.
Anyway, we can get the passes on impact and if that all happens in 5 mins then we'd have that option.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This is becoming more of a monologue than ever, but I need to plonk these details down somewhere.

Vienna:
I cant remember if it was in here or somewhere else, but someone gave me a good argument for why trying to get across bratislava, with 13 people, in an hour, is just not worth it/doomed to failure. The trains to the main station from vienna are quicker than to petrzalka too.
Also, possibly the same guy explained that the train into Vienna calls at Meidling in the south west of the city centre before taking 15 mins to get round to Westbahnhof.
I'm not sure if it's entirely worth getting off a sleeper before the terminus at that time of the morning, we'd only save 10 mins at best, but the question remains as to where we pick up the Bratsilava train. We have a series of options; Sudbahnhof, Simmering or Stadlau. Sud is the originating station of course, always a good palce to get on. Bahn suggests Stadlau, which is actually over the river to the east. Simmering is at the end of U3, the same line we'd have got to Stephansplatz, which is what I've designated as Vienna's quintessential photo spot, i.e. we dont have to change tube trains. I think they are building at Sudbahnhof too, which would make it all the more confusing with boards up all over the show, it's really a case of how easy Simmering is to navigate. Is the U-Bahn and the mailine station one and the same ?, just go upstairs and you are there, I think this is so.

My refined Vienna schedule reads:-
00:04 Praha hl.n.
(06:07 Wien Meidling)
06:22 Wien Westbahnhof

Feature: 2 hours to get across to Südbahnhof, or may be Stadlau, via Stephen's place.

Train 20 -REX 2510 - aprox 74 km - duration 0:58
08:20 Wien Südbahnhof
(08:25 Wien Simmering)
(08:35 Wien Stadlau)
09:32 Bratislava hl.st
 
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Glenmutchkin

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For Bratislava there was something about a 93 bus from the more southerly station to the main one. I struggle to remember words that have no vowels.This would allow you to see the Danube which was, at the time, somewhere near the top of the list.

See #33
 

Mark_Lester

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For Bratislava there was something about a 93 bus from the more southerly station to the main one. I struggle to remember words that have no vowels.This would allow you to see the Danube which was, at the time, somewhere near the top of the list.

See #33
Petrzalka, it's written, nice and cut and pastable, in the last post. It's pronounced petur zal ka, that's really not hard.
If you want to do that you are quite welcome, my advice is it isnt worth it, and I'm not herding 13 people via the bus. The calculations were that if it took longer than 20 minutes from pulling into the station to being all on a moving bus, we'd risk missing the train out. Slovakia's sovreign status is all that's stopping me ordering a proper breakfast in Vienna and then just getting the railjet to Budapest. I defy anyone who hasnt actually been there to recognise any photgraph of it's capital that hasnt got the name of the place on a train platform.
In the mean time, now I've got 13 bug free beds in Venice for under 50 quid each, I need to analyze how we execute all that. If you want to cook up an alternative with a sit down meal somewhere, please feel free. That's not going to work with a load of people but you are welcome to do a spin off. Likewise, if you dont like the girls hall of res, just say. Note that you wont be allowed out of Domus Civica till 7am. But I'd appreciate an assesment of the plan above and some alternatives.
I am away for a few days.
 

Glenmutchkin

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I only posted to stop things becoming a monologue. Take my silence as tacit acceptance of the plan. I guess that Sunday morning in Venice could be freeplay as long as everybody knows the train times. It might also depend on the weather.

PS I love the countdown on the blog. Thank you.
 

Donbacsi

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Bratislava...eh! Get off the train, grab a European Budweiser, and get back on.
So, what is the new game plan in Budapest? You arrive at what time in the morning? You are still leaving on the 19:05 out of Keleti for Romania? What is it you propose to do with the time while in B-pest? Are you just shopping for food or are there "must sees" while there? If so, what and how do you propose to get around and in what order?
 

Mark_Lester

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Bratislava...eh! Get off the train, grab a European Budweiser, and get back on.
So, what is the new game plan in Budapest? You arrive at what time in the morning? You are still leaving on the 19:05 out of Keleti for Romania? What is it you propose to do with the time while in B-pest? Are you just shopping for food or are there "must sees" while there? If so, what and how do you propose to get around and in what order?
Just sat down from a lot of driving to the promised land and back. (that's manchester fyi).
I dunno what the plan is, it's the same times as before, but we now get in on friday so we can do the market in the afternoon. If it wasnt for the impressive set of captials we've ended up with I'd chalk bratislava off fpor the fancy railjet, but we'll have to do it. Get into Budapest at 12:35.
The must see is the castle of course, but the children's is probably just a bit too much. So I'm looking at getting to the market quite early so we have about 2 hours where we can make camp in some cafe upstairs (I am assuming), and groups can go off and aquire various food stuffs.
This food angle is something I'll be returning to shortly now we've got all the off train sleeps worked out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just been revisiting all the food notes, getting the blog sketch details on this rectified and at least jotting down as much as we've worked out before doing a further level of research.

I've noted we need a supply drop in Zagreb, we've got 12 hours on the train coming up.
Dolac market is
a) reputedly Zagreb's best bit
b) opens at the highly convenient time of 7am
we land at 06:30 and leave at 09:00, so this should work out nicely.
furthermore, the trams in the city centre are free, yes free!. it's 1km dead from the station. We have Croat friends, I'll go ask them about all this.
 

Golghar

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Berlin. Brandenburg gate and back, so 2 bus/metro journeys. ed will come back wth some plans, there might be something constructive we can do in the morning, but with "Berlin Night Life" as the itemised activity, just getting up in time for the 10:45 train will be an achievement in itself.

From Berlin Hauptbahnhof to Brandenburg Gate and back you can take the metro route U55. This is a kind of "parliamentary" line with just three stations, the one in the middle being the parliament (Bundestag). The map shows a proposed link with the U5 at Alexanderplatz but, as with the new airport, one can't tell when that will be. As far as net losses per metre of track go, I'm certain this one can beat any parliamentary line in the UK.

This is the local speciality that takes some getting used to, though the genuine Berlin working class dish does without all these poncey herbs.
 

Mark_Lester

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From Berlin Hauptbahnhof to Brandenburg Gate and back you can take the metro route U55. This is a kind of "parliamentary" line with just three stations, the one in the middle being the parliament (Bundestag). The map shows a proposed link with the U5 at Alexanderplatz but, as with the new airport, one can't tell when that will be. As far as net losses per metre of track go, I'm certain this one can beat any parliamentary line in the UK.

This is the local speciality that takes some getting used to, though the genuine Berlin working class dish does without all these poncey herbs.
wunderbar, last tube back is 12:40.
Good veggie solution that one, I know about the germans and spuds. The russian word for potatoe is actually the german word.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://tamarindandthyme.wordpress.com/2010/04/14/in-which-im-introduced-to-croatian-food/ excellent list of things to get in Zagreb on here, including fig and orange jam.
 

Mark_Lester

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And the German word for "potato" is a corruption of the Italian word for "truffle".
BTW, is your spelling for the name of the tuber a typo or a homage to the unforgotten Dan Quayle?
no, I'm just illterate
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Brussels,
on the corner of rue de tabora and bruersstraat, there is
a bakery called la wetternoise, a fromargerie called p'tit normand, and across the road
a charcuterie of the same name, and next to that a nicolas boozerie.
then just centimetres away, down a little alley with a distinctly dodgy red neon sign and arrow (see street view), is this
http://www.alabecasse.com/en/info.html
and it's all under 100m from the GP
 

Golghar

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As Stockholm is on your itinerary Surströmming is a local speciality you might (not) want to try out. This is what the main article has to say about it:
The traditional Swedish dish Surströmming is a fairly popular way of enjoying fermented fish in the Nordic countries. (And for all those out there who don't know what 'fermented' means, it's basically just another word for 'rotten').
Read more at http://www.infobarrel.com/The_5_Most_Horrifying_Foods_In_The_World#IbXmzOjlR3jZyB4e.99
 

Mark_Lester

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As Stockholm is on your itinerary Surströmming is a local speciality you might (not) want to try out. This is what the main article has to say about it:
I youtubed it, that's a bit too much but thanks for the input, it's certainly blogworthy.

je t'aime google translate. I dont propose we get all 12 kinids of sauerkraut, but we should try at least one.
Le P'tit Normand in Brussels 2012

Do not be fooled ... this tiny little shop just steps from the Grand Place offers a choice gargantuan meat and sausage. Depending on the season, sausages, black pudding and sausages countries (France, Italy, Spain, Germany) adorn the shelves. In winter, a dozen kinds of sauerkraut leave you perplexed as envious. Mrs. Buyle, mistress of the place, swears by the authenticity of its products and advise you appropriately.
 

Mark_Lester

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the limits on bringing alcohol into Norway are
http://www.toll.no/templates_TAD/Article.aspx?id=195294&epslanguage=EN#quota
which is more than I'd thought, that equals 20 bottles of sprits and 30 bottles of wine total allowance for the lot of us. Only about 12 or 13 wil be drinking, so we probably need about half that. Mind you, we've an Irishman and a Bulgarian....

here is the entrance to the pub. I have recollections of this but it was 30 years ago and as the man said, "I was very, VERY drunk".
a-la-becasse-neon-sign.JPG

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
google streetview has been on the bernina and the abula lines. doesnt always work and you cant do the whole run, but it's still fun.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Brussels:- we already worked most of this out, but here it is again
get in 12:08 (a few mins off last years time fyi).

12:25 Bruxelles Midi
12:38 Brussell Centraal
walk past, and though, the chocolatiers (which mainly seem to be immediately east of the GP) , then through GP and on to A La Bécasse for about 13:15, which I wil book. 1 hour in there, and then shop at the 3 shops; bakery, fromagerie, charcuterie and offie.
tram 3 or 4 back to Midi from Bourse, every 5 mins, takes 5. Leave GP area at 15:00.
tram cost 1.80 € if bought in advance, 2.50 € if bought on the tram. the midi-centraal train will be free.
I came up with a shopping list of 4 kilos fine meats, 2 kilos cheese, loads of bread and fruit, and 2 massive boxes of stupidly expensive choccies, and it still came to under £15 each.
Nicolas dont seem to do a particualrly fine line in jenever, well, they dont have any according to their website. Neither do Delhaize. And I can't see a cookware section in there either. I will arrange in advance, as advised, with Eurostar to have the bread knives in "the hold", though will try to just go through security with them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
all these fancy choc shops are in gallerie du royales, corne and neuhaus are reputed to be the best. so we come out of the station, and walk along Rue d'Arenberg, then down the gallery, which will be like buiying chocolates in burlington arcade, through the square to the pub, and we've done brussels.
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Copenhagen to Gothenburg changed/downgraded.
IC488 seems to have vanished, in it's place we have the more mundane sounding R1056, which leaves 15 minutes earlier and arrives 15 minutes later.
We still have 25 mins to change trains at Gothenburg.

If someone manages to miss the brussels->amsterdam train then they can get to Cologne without too much difficulty, but if this connecttion to Oslo is missed then it will need a more elaborate plan B devising, which I will determine now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
correction, 30 mins in gothenburg, the connecting R398 leaves 5 mins later this year, but gets in at the same 21:45.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
next one is the trondheim to bodo(e) train, D471, sets off 2 minutes earlier but gets in an inexplicable 52 minutes later than previously. I think it was DF471 previously unless that was a typo, so we lost the F maybe.
we will stil have plenty of time to get the plane, but grocery procurement will be more limited.
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I need to pick through the whole route now clearly, the next to be downgraded is the IC 25 out of Narvik, which now calls itself IC 10095, and as such leaves 27 minutes earlier at 09:35, further compormising arctic provision acqusition. If that supermarket doesnt open till 09:00 then we'll have to get stuff worked out in Bodo.
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next up is an upgrade, the boden stockholm run has had nearly 2 hours carved off it! I know (I think I know) there are high speed and short cut sections north of stockholm that were being built.
the train actually gets in 10 minutes later now at 06:35, all the extra time is at Boden, so we certainly have enough time to make the 100m it is to the nearest supermarket.
The narvik train has no bordrestaurant now, even if you fancied it.
I dont think this campsite are going to be interested in shopping for us, and the flight doesnt get in till 19:45, the shopping centre shuts at 20:00, so we are looking at the confusingly similar Bodo and Boden to stock up.
 
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Glenmutchkin

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Did you hear that the Czechs have banned all alcohol with an ABV content over 20%. Not sure what was lined up for the shot glasses in Prague but maybe we just have an extra beer.
 

Mark_Lester

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I heard something about this. It will be sale of anyway. Their national hard tipple is something akin to Jagers, i.e it tastes like medcine. Becherovka I think it's called. We'd be able to get some in Berlin. I confidently predict that come Prague we'll all be quite happy with 2 Velkopopovicky anyway .

Timetable check from Stockholm to Berlin gives us 1 extra minute in Copenhagen to change trains, we now have 26 minutes, and we get in 1 minute earlier at 23:10 in Berlin with the same changover at Hamburg.
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get an extra minute in prague, but loose 8 in Vienna, now get in at 06:30.
but I've made the exec decision for an extra 30+ mins in wien and get the train straight to bratislava hlavna stanica from simmering (not semmering!).
everything else down to sofia is as was.
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same same to belgrade.
this 08:15 to Sarajevo is now 08:05, and stlil doesnt turn up on bahn.de, but is in here
http://w3.srbrail.rs/zsredvoznje/?lang=sr
it gets in slightly earlier at 17:28, I've promoted it now to the intended train, so we are down to 49 trains.
everything else is OK up to venice. I'll double check later though I'd expect the remainder to be intact.
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Did you hear that the Czechs have banned all alcohol with an ABV content over 20%. Not sure what was lined up for the shot glasses in Prague but maybe we just have an extra beer.
They've had a load of methanol poisonings. I cant imagine this is going to last very long, but it's just sale related. We arent going to get busted for having a bottle of voidka on our persons.
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oh, that milan tirano train has vanished again. it never has turned up in bahn but it's gone from trenitalia now.
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we got the half hour back at geneva. if you remember it started saying it was leaving at 23:05, but it's gone back to 23:35, so over 2 hours again to get to the jet d'eau and back.
it now gets in 29 minutes later at 1 minute to 11.
ah, and it's arriving at sants, it used to go to de franca, so I guess it is using this Perthus tunnel through the pyrenees and doing it all on standard gauge, so we dont get the gauge conversion gig at Cerbère, *sob*. But on the up side we will be arriving and leaving from the same station, so we might be able to dump the bags.

7 mins off the madrid arrival, same departure time from barca, well done, where do you lot get the money from ?.
only other change is the hendaye-montparnasse takes off 15 minutes earlier but only saves a minute on arrival.
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the shopping details for Copenhagen have resolved themselves.
There's a new market opened at Norreport which is quite ideal for all our purposes.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=to...sIDgCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=960

So we just want to find the most effortless way of getting via a boat bus to Nyhavn, walk up that for a few hundred to metres then bus it across to Norreport. They have lunch stuff and everything, it's perfect.

bus or walk down Bernstorffgarde to the river. (a bus 66)
boat bus to nyhavn (I had a timetable somewhere for that thing)
walk up Nyhavn to kongens nytorv
Metro M1 one stop to Norreport
eat and buy
S-Bahn 2 stops to central station.

The S-Bahn is perhaps on our pass. I cant work out what the rules are for a metro ticket and if we just need one ticket for that or three. A day pass is £7.50 which is a bit excessive for a short boat ride and a one stop tube journey.
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actually I think we need to get to bibliotek, so that's certainly a number 66 bus ride.
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great, so it's a 1 hour ticket, play as much as you like.

you can get 10 of them for £15. singles are £2.50 but it still works out at less than £2 each if the s-bahn is free.
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I still have to work out procurement details in Stockholm and Milan, but the two ones that need working out now are Barca and Madrid. At both, even with almost 2 hours each to eat, we still have another 2 hours to do something appropriate but not too taxing.
May be we still do some of Tibidabo in Barca. Or perhaps the Camp Nou and the Bernabeau could count as the defintive monuments at both and we go to the trouble of visiting them, there will be ultras bars at both, though not sure what time in the morning they will be open in Barca.
Yeah why not, they are both in the space of a few hours, it's a good cultural angle.
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I have picked up an extra 25 mins in Barcelona though with only 10 lost in Madrid. The 15:25 doesnt bother with Zaragossa and is just 2:30 to Madrid, better by 15 mins.
We dont need to go to Estacio Sants to dump the bags, we are already there. Lockers are either 3 euros or 4.50. You get more volume per euro in the smaller lockers, but two back packs might fit in the bigger ones.
Not sure now about the football comparison, I think that will have to be incidental. But nothing much worth eating in will open before 1pm. I guess we'll have to do that bloody building site of a cathedral after all, and I guess Ramblas is as good as Tangiers to we should do that. I refuse to do that park though.
 
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Mark_Lester

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http://www.barcelona-tourist-guide.com/en/gaudi/park-guell.html
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stockholm:
We can get the sandwich cakes, and also some nice pastries, from here
http://www.wienerkonditoriet.se/
they open at 7 am!
click on Kontakt for a map, it's just about walking distance from the station.
on the way back to the station, we pass by Hemkop, in the basement of Åhlens City
http://stockholm4foreigners.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/hemkp-city-stockholm.html
where we can get anything else.

Therefore, we should do the circuit including the djurgardsvagen ferry anti-clockwise, i.e go to gamla stan, get the ferry over to djurgardsvagen and then make our way back to the station.
I make that a 53 bus to Slussen,
ferry to djurgarden (07:24 or 07:48), takes 10 mins.
bus 44 up to karlaplan
one stop on the red line back to ostermalmstorg
do the two shops above on way back to station.

the only problem with that plan is there's no provision for doing any of these funky tube stations they've got cut out of rock, Radhuset is the closest interesting one to the central, just one stop.
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I found the timetables, so correction to bus 44 to karlaplan,

07:01 - 07:09 Bus 53 from Centralen (Vasagatan) towards Henriksdalsberget. Alight at Slussen (Katarinavägen).

07:24 - 07:34 Djurgårdsfärjan from Slussen towards Djurgården. Alight at Allmänna gränd. (this is the boat, I am not 100% Allmänna gränd is the last stop).

07:44 - 07:51 Spårväg City tram 7 from Liljevalchs/Gröna Lund towards SERGELS TORG T-Centralen. Alight at Nybroplan. (and every 10 mins after that)

then walk up Birger Jarlsgatan to our Konditieri, and then the 1km backl to the station via thr supermarket.

but no tunnel banana at all now. over an hour to play with on that, assuming we can find the 52 bus stop within 24 mins after impact.
this bakery I've found could concievably do everything, including breakfast, so if we are on the money we could walk the shorter distance to Otsermalmstorg and do a little tubing.
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The most cost effective way of doing this seems to be buying 2 lots of 16 tickets at 180SEK each, that works out about £2.25 each with 15 of us, plus the boat which is an astonishing £4.20 each.
It's still cheaper than getting a pass, which has the boat free, the pass comes in at over £12 including the electronic card "that you can use again on your next visit ..."
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In Rome, actually in Termini, is a chain called Ciao Autogrill with excellent reviews. As it's as good as on the platform and is self service it's ideal.
Rome isnt great for street food, though I'm sure we can get a slice of pizza somewhere to keep us running.
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ploce to split
according to this
http://www.buscroatia.com/routes-search/?dS=Ploce&aS=Split&d=2012-09-28&t=11:30
the next (listed) bus after our arrival seems to be a 12:10 which goes along the coast road, which is a bit slower but much better.

it doesnt originate at Ploce though, but at metkovic, on the boirder just up the road. we could get off there instead, but that wouldnt be the done thing with track ahead and a train running on it, that we are actually sitting on. I dont know what the booking chances are, but they have nice looking buses on their website.
http://www.promet-makarska.hr/

And that palm tree bearing station at Split is actually on the harbour. there's another bigger station, Predgrade, but we dont have to leave the main promenade area, which I think is where most of the touristy stuff is (at least 11 churches in about 1/4 of a square km)
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regarding disaster recovery in Bucharest, there is, alledgedly, a bus at 4pm which takes 7 hours, so as long as we were to get on that then it's as you were.
failing that, it's trying to get on the 23:28 night train, with probably no chance of a bed, which would probably get in after our scheduled local train departure, so we'd then have to road it all the way to skopje.
all very messy.

we need to get some first hand reports on what time this budapest train generally gets in these days now the line to brasov is supposedly fixed.
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well this is good news, bang on the money according to this report. and it looks a damn nice train to boot, and it does have showers!
http://www.railbookers.com/blog/2011/04/taking-the-night-train-from-budapest-to-bucharest/
how odd, he got the train to Bucharest, through Brosov, then got the train back again the following day up to Brasov. Must be one of these lunatics who just goes on trains for the sake of it.

I've mailed the nice lady in Belgrade who told me that the sofia train is always late, to see how well behaved that skopje train is. I think we've zero chance of a wash on that one though.

oh, hang on, http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=2138003, this says there are no beds at all in and out of skopje as these were part of the greek service.

buggerski
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I am now being tolds that it has couchettes, with sheets and everything, i.e as good as India ACiii. I was always expecting at least one of these trains to have an issue with respect to the standard of the sleeping facilities, indeed of the very existence of a proper lie down.
and anyway, it gets in on time, no trouble, says Ognjenka.
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I am now thinking that an 09:57 kick off from Sofia, on a local train, which only goes about 1/3 of the way anyway, and takes forver doing it, needs adjusting.
The bus for the 2nd part over the border and to Skopje wil be at least "10 euros" each. A taxi the whole way is 100, so we should be able to get 2 people carriers to do the whole lot for under 300, so 25 euro sheckles each and we get to leave at mid day, and dont have to factor in buffer time, if we are 15 mins late getting back to canape connection (the currently desgnated sofia sleep option subject to final review) then we are 15 mins later getting to skopje.
GC*RC precedent allows for such blatant cheating when the timetable or network just dont match up to requirements.
 
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Mark_Lester

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I just couldn't resist posting this which I think never came up on the Bollyrail thread. Originally posted by Golghar in "The Other Place"
wow, how the blazes did we miss THAT ?!, we had one from the same film, eat your hearts out 70s British drag queens.
 
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Mark_Lester

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I just checked the Bollyrail list. You didn't miss it. It's there all right.
that's cos I just put it in.
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I have Stoy on the case working out the bus from sofia to skopje. anyone religious enough can get the local train if they want, we'll pick them up on the border.

i fixed up the tee so it doesnt lie now
gcerc42.jpg

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as for the T-shirt, I've still got to sort out something screen printable of a dampflug, though I have to say I've grown attached to this yankee thing we've got on there now.

i am revisiting berlin. a&o came back with a pants offer for 15 beds, which spiurred me into action. I also think that half past 3 in the afternoon with a midnight dep is a bit much to be walking the streets of prague, so the 12:46 out of hbf might be better, and allow a lie in if you've been on the sauce in berlin.

I found this place http://www.three-little-pigs.com, I've asked anthony valentine and bernard hepton if they'd mind doing a shift on reception that night ...
BB gate is between hbf and 3 pigs, so we can do a late night shot of that (it's way better under lights) and check in midnightish.
we have locals who want to take us out, but you can zonk out if it's all been a bit too much.
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and we currently have a quote of 220 euros for an 8 person people carrier from sofia to skopje, which is about 22 quid each, but we've still 5 more bottoms to cater for. my budget for that was 30 euros each. it would doubtless be more than half that for the oblig road section anyway. stoy is seeing if we can get a whole bus which hopefully will bring us in under 20 quid each.
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this 3 pigs place is at anhalter bahnhof, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Anhalter_Bahnhof. there's nowt much left of it alas except for a teeny bit of the front for a photo.
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3 little pigs was full, so no need for bernie and tony.
I did look again at our 3 capitals in a day section of vienna, bratislava & budapest and toyed with pushing the budapest arrival back in order that we could do a at least a bit of bratislava, but I've stuck as it is for now (i.e getting the slightly later train direct to the main bratislava station, and just a 20 min turn round there) . if we got in to bud at 2:30pm we'd have only about 2 hours to do the castle and back to the market in time to shop properly.
 
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