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The Great Circular European Railway Challenge
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Glenmutchkin
Member
Have you seen his photo?
I am assuming you are to have no less than 7 hours on the ground in B-pest. Hit the platform, lockers and the Metro equals minus 1/2 hour.
I envision two groups splitting off during ABURP: those who want to ride everything; and those who want to see the museum, skip the hanging in cable cars (all the acrophobes) and are willing to do the shopping in the Central Market. The second group will still get to ride most everything except the huffing up into the hills of the wealthy.
The key to this is that all Metro lines intersect at Deak Ter, which is right in the center of the action. This will be the meet up point. All members will buy a single ticket at the Keleti Metro unless the 24 hour pass is available there. For sure they have them at Deak Ter. If so, get it activated and you will be able to "flash and pass" on everything except the Siklo, Cog and Childrens. If not there, then get a singleton and make sure you punch it in the orange box BEFORE you board the Metro. Otherwise, you may be stopped by the dreaded "Kontroll" who will fine you on the spot for in excess of 10P...not a good start. Save the ticket until after you exit the escalator at Deak Ter. Now that everyone has a 24 hour pass, all board the #1 for "Mexicoi". Group #1 (the rail freaks) can ride as far as they want and then turn around. Group #2 (the shoppers) can ride to the end and then walk back a short way to the museum. After that they just jump on again and back to the terminus at Vorosmarti Ter. From there it is two short blocks to the Pest side tram. They will travel north past the Parliament and then return to the Lanchid (Chain Bridge). Walking the ten minutes across the south side (photo op) they will arrive at the Siklo. Take it up and down (I think you can buy a return and not have to stand in line twice.) Then take the Buda side tram south to Szabasag Hid (Freedom Bridge) walk across and you will be at the Central market! An option is to head north from the Siklo on the tram and then transfer to the HEV light rail to add to your check list. Ride no farther than the city line or you will be charged extra.
Group #1 is somewhat the reverse. After returning on the #1 line, do NOT go to the terminus, but get off at Deak Ter and transfer to the line that takes you by the Parliament, under the river and on to Moskva (Kelmen) Ter. Get a bus and go to the Cog. I have not taken the cable, but many reliable sources tell me this is the way to do both Buda hills rails in one day. Ride back on the Childrens and bus back to Moskva Ter. Take the bus to Clark Adam Ter and ride the Siklo up and down. I don't know who told you the tram went up Castle Hill, but you will have a long wait. Time allowing, do the ride north, add the HEV if possible, the tram back to the Metro stop and ride back to Deak Ter and meet up with the shoppers. I suggest you do the hills as early as possible because should anything go wrong up there, there will be hell to pay to get 2 (3-4?) taxis up into those hills to get you back to the flatlands before your train leaves. If that happens you will have to pay the cabbie a ton to race across Pest and the suburbs to try to catch the train. If it hits the Puszta (the great plain of Hungary) you can literally wave goodby to the GCERC. It won't happen, but...
All in all, I believe this is a very workable plan to maximize your train experience in Budapest.
I envision two groups splitting off during ABURP: those who want to ride everything; and those who want to see the museum, skip the hanging in cable cars (all the acrophobes) and are willing to do the shopping in the Central Market. The second group will still get to ride most everything except the huffing up into the hills of the wealthy.
The key to this is that all Metro lines intersect at Deak Ter, which is right in the center of the action. This will be the meet up point. All members will buy a single ticket at the Keleti Metro unless the 24 hour pass is available there. For sure they have them at Deak Ter. If so, get it activated and you will be able to "flash and pass" on everything except the Siklo, Cog and Childrens. If not there, then get a singleton and make sure you punch it in the orange box BEFORE you board the Metro. Otherwise, you may be stopped by the dreaded "Kontroll" who will fine you on the spot for in excess of 10P...not a good start. Save the ticket until after you exit the escalator at Deak Ter. Now that everyone has a 24 hour pass, all board the #1 for "Mexicoi". Group #1 (the rail freaks) can ride as far as they want and then turn around. Group #2 (the shoppers) can ride to the end and then walk back a short way to the museum. After that they just jump on again and back to the terminus at Vorosmarti Ter. From there it is two short blocks to the Pest side tram. They will travel north past the Parliament and then return to the Lanchid (Chain Bridge). Walking the ten minutes across the south side (photo op) they will arrive at the Siklo. Take it up and down (I think you can buy a return and not have to stand in line twice.) Then take the Buda side tram south to Szabasag Hid (Freedom Bridge) walk across and you will be at the Central market! An option is to head north from the Siklo on the tram and then transfer to the HEV light rail to add to your check list. Ride no farther than the city line or you will be charged extra.
Group #1 is somewhat the reverse. After returning on the #1 line, do NOT go to the terminus, but get off at Deak Ter and transfer to the line that takes you by the Parliament, under the river and on to Moskva (Kelmen) Ter. Get a bus and go to the Cog. I have not taken the cable, but many reliable sources tell me this is the way to do both Buda hills rails in one day. Ride back on the Childrens and bus back to Moskva Ter. Take the bus to Clark Adam Ter and ride the Siklo up and down. I don't know who told you the tram went up Castle Hill, but you will have a long wait. Time allowing, do the ride north, add the HEV if possible, the tram back to the Metro stop and ride back to Deak Ter and meet up with the shoppers. I suggest you do the hills as early as possible because should anything go wrong up there, there will be hell to pay to get 2 (3-4?) taxis up into those hills to get you back to the flatlands before your train leaves. If that happens you will have to pay the cabbie a ton to race across Pest and the suburbs to try to catch the train. If it hits the Puszta (the great plain of Hungary) you can literally wave goodby to the GCERC. It won't happen, but...
All in all, I believe this is a very workable plan to maximize your train experience in Budapest.
Mark_Lester
Member
at least it's not some dodgy, anatomically misleading, virility statement
Don, many thanks for that.
if they dont have day passes on sale at the city's principle international railway station then all the confidence i've built up so far will evaporate.
I didnt say the tram went up castle hill, or didnt mean to
i just mean we have to get a tram 18 up krisina korut round the back of the hill towords the cog.
looking closely at openstreetmap there is a long flight of steps down the southern tip of the hill. at that stage you're only half way back down, so i dont know if the nicest way to proceed is to turn right to dozsa gyorgy ter tram station, or carry straight on to dobreinte ter station.
the latter is nearer but the other is in the right direction and may be a nicer walk and not involve as much road crossing
we need to end up at the market, there isnt going to be a split group.
from keleti
out along m2 one stop to stadionok
tram 1/1a to kacs um pongram ut near mexiko on line 1
line 1 to deak
line 2 to batthyany ter
tram 19 and 41 to siklo
castle
then tram 18 to moskva ter, then a 59/61 to start of cog
cog,
childrens
the plan after the children's is
on the way back from hugosolvy (end of the childrens line, the spelling of this stuff is doing my head in) we get 47 or 49 tram to moskva ter, then a 4 or a 6 to oktogon on line 1, get off at the end at voromarty ter and walk down vigado ter to river bank and get a 2 or a 2a to fovam and the market.
on the way back to the station 49 / 51 to deak, then m2 to keleti
with that we get every inch of the line 1 , and get to use entrance/exit of the 4 most important stations, both termini, deak (twice, one change and one entrance) and i suspect oktagon is the principle other best station on the line 1 as it's nearest to nyugati station.
somewhere along that we need to eat. we need to be at childrens for 3pm .
land at 12:30, can we get some sort native fast food at the station ?. we'd need to be moving from keleti by 1pm, and off the castle hill by 2pm. I need to check this with the timetables, you basically need to take the worst case and add some extras.
the food options at the top of the children's sound limited, but there's a cafe
we should be able to easily make it back to the market for 4:30, may be 4, it shuts at 6 so that's enough time to shop and hopefully get more native fast food, then enough time again to get to the station for 6:30 for a quick beer and 7:00 departure
pickled water melon, is it just the rind ?.
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Glenmutchkin
Member
That reminds me. I must check my VT account for fan mail.
Presumably somebody with us will have an i-phone or whatever it has become by 2013. There look to be one or two useful apps listed on this thread.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58115
Mark_Lester
Member
also, plus all the updates to the biove I just made,
i've realised we're going to have to get out of bed early on day 1 and get the 8:57 out of st panc else brussels is pointless, we can then do it half properly with 3 and a half hours, but not much at all with 1 and a half hours.
so it's be in the s/e of england by daybreak.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
we are going to have a whole stack of techno types with about 3 internet capable things each, so yes we'll be online almost permanently. (we may have a problem in some arctic fjord i guess, but everywhere else will be fine)
i've realised we're going to have to get out of bed early on day 1 and get the 8:57 out of st panc else brussels is pointless, we can then do it half properly with 3 and a half hours, but not much at all with 1 and a half hours.
so it's be in the s/e of england by daybreak.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
we are going to have a whole stack of techno types with about 3 internet capable things each, so yes we'll be online almost permanently. (we may have a problem in some arctic fjord i guess, but everywhere else will be fine)
Glenmutchkin
Member
If not it might give us the pip.
Don't forget that there is a 30 minute check in time for Eurostar. A difficult concept for a train so it might need mentioning more than once.
Mark_Lester
Member
we should perhaps demand everyone is available for duty at 7:30 on the dot on the concourse, and we'll toast the mission's start. presumably boarding starts at 8am.If not it might give us the pip.
Don't forget that there is a 30 minute check in time for Eurostar. A difficult concept for a train so it might need mentioning more than once.
The argument therefore is what is the national tipple of the country that London is the capital of.
I argue it's Gin, and I'd vote for sloe, i actually prefer gordons over plymouth. I do like my whiskey but would find that more palatable at that time of the morning.
We could I guess reserve the fine stuff for return, provided Scotland hasnt declared independence by then. Nicolas the offie have a stonking selection, and they even have their own indie bottler called dunendin, so we can get some proper tackle for the run back from paris.
Most important things first:
The watermelon pickles (dinnye) are whole watermelons, generally about the size of an apricot or a little larger. These are culled from the vines so that a few can grow to magnitude (many are culled, but few are chosen.).
There is only one snack bar at Keleti I can recommend. Do NOT eat at any of the kebab stands or anything else on the north platform. Rather walk half way down that platform and you will find a short breeze-way opening connecting to the north arcade. The Bufe (stand up quickie Hungarian food) on your left is run by real Hungarians and serves real Hungarian snacks/sandwiches, etc. Order your sandwiches first. As they toss these to you, this will be your first chance to taste Hungarian Palinka (fruit brandy...get the Barack/apricot for starters). Wash it all down with a cold local brew.
Depending on the time you hit the central market, this should be where you get your second snack. Turn right as you enter and take the escalator to the mezzanine. Try to avoid the little "beer garden" at the top as you will probably miss your train. Turn left and you will see half the length of the hall has take away Bufe, Palinka, beer, wine, etc. See the review:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...l_Market_Hall_Nagy_Vasarcsarnok-Budapest.html
The watermelon pickles (dinnye) are whole watermelons, generally about the size of an apricot or a little larger. These are culled from the vines so that a few can grow to magnitude (many are culled, but few are chosen.).
There is only one snack bar at Keleti I can recommend. Do NOT eat at any of the kebab stands or anything else on the north platform. Rather walk half way down that platform and you will find a short breeze-way opening connecting to the north arcade. The Bufe (stand up quickie Hungarian food) on your left is run by real Hungarians and serves real Hungarian snacks/sandwiches, etc. Order your sandwiches first. As they toss these to you, this will be your first chance to taste Hungarian Palinka (fruit brandy...get the Barack/apricot for starters). Wash it all down with a cold local brew.
Depending on the time you hit the central market, this should be where you get your second snack. Turn right as you enter and take the escalator to the mezzanine. Try to avoid the little "beer garden" at the top as you will probably miss your train. Turn left and you will see half the length of the hall has take away Bufe, Palinka, beer, wine, etc. See the review:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...l_Market_Hall_Nagy_Vasarcsarnok-Budapest.html
Glenmutchkin
Member
I googled "Where can I get a drink at 7.30 am in London" Along with a few Alcohol Concern sites it threw up this.
http://thirtyoneseventyfive.com/getting-drunk-by-8-30am-at-hawksmoor-guildhall/
Guidhall is probably a bit far away.
At that time of day it has to be Buck's Fizz. I suspect that I will now be denounced as some sort of ponce. I wonder what the bye-laws say about public consumption at St Pancras? Getting arrested in the Balkans is probably part of the fun but it would be a bit of a downer to be locked in a Black Maria while Train 1 glides out.
it might be possible to persuade a legit establishment to get an extension for a special event .
Glenmutchkin
Member
Don, I suspect that is good advice worldwide.
In the good old days we would have had our Club Car added to the back of each train as we made our stately progress around Europe. There would have been none of this picnic nonsense.
Attachments
Glenmutchkin
Member
You have seen his photo.
Mark_Lester
Member
2 shot glasses (one spare) is part of the standard kit, in fact THE most important part and you'll bee sent home if you fail the inspection drill.
+ 1 bottle of gordon's sloe and you are there. thats one shot each, for the camera.
I cant believe a dozen or so middle aged blokes are going to get arrested on the eurostar platform for that. we're not going to get across the channel if it's going to be that hard.
is bucks fizz not pleby then ?. we can get it on the train I'm sure, at eye watering expense for a fruit juice and fizzy wine.
2nd most important part of your kit is the plastic wine glass,
so, the melons are whole!. i cant find anything about this, i got pickled peel, and some fresh flesh drenched in sushi vinegar for a bit, bit nothing about whole melons.
the entire trip is justified by my curiosity about this
re my plan for doing budapest, its quite rushed, there's actually a train down the hill for the childrens every hour, not just at 3, that's the weekend only steam train. and we could elect to get the childrens up and the cog down depending on whats the next childrens, an up or a down.
but time flies, and so I'm starting to think that even in budapest we could do with a one stop/delivered picnic supplies option. we could pass through the market on the way out to siklo/cog/childrens and give cash money to some agent who will do the chore of getting the x kinds of gerkins etc, and we turn up at the offy and just chose some wine and stuff and settle up.
what do you think i'll get if i google "special helper in budapest"
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Glenmutchkin
Member
You'll probably get Don. Every other Budapest link seems to feature him.
For the launch party I had visions of a sit down brekker with devilled kidneys, kedgeree, toasted muffins - that sort of thing. Something a bit classy. It's not every day that one sets off on a 17,000+ km journey with a group of people who should probably be sectioned.
I will be road testing my essential equipment on our forthcoming trip to India.
Mark_Lester
Member
well it's an excellent idea.
i dont think there's even breakfast on this ruddy eurostar, can you verify that.
i think it's a perfectly valid quest. i keep asking natives of far away places to solve this kind of stuff, where can we get a raj style english breakfast near kings x . the betjemin doesnt open till 9.
actually, i used to know a superb Italian greasy spoon up pentonville road, no kedgeree but it would be fantastic, but i doubt he's still there.
the hotels are all ****e, but there might be some establishment that does breakfast and will lay something on if we stump up 20 quid a head. 30 quid would be over £500 and ought to get a decent table of food.
anyway, we'll need some kind of official breakfast if we are leaving early.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
so no improvement on "wing it" from seat61's other half for booking south of budapest.
i need a Hungarian travel agent, and a Turkish one. and may be a bulgarian one.
sofia isnt a problem, we have team members there, but we need a companmy in both those who can book sleeper reservations.
Glenmutchkin
Member
Right I'm back with you. There should be rules against bald pensioners being allowed to play in the cup.
When we get a firm start date I reckon that we start tapping the catering establishments in and around St P to see if we can set up a launch breakfast.
Do you remember that site Raildude that we looked at a while back? I wonder if they are up to booking the grungy bits of the itinerary.
Btw - your lot seem set on winning the cup the hard way.
PS Eurostar website says "Standard class - satisfy your appetite at our on board buffet. Gluten free meals require 36 hours notice" (I paraphrase) There needs to be a warning off notice somewhere for dietary prima donnas.
When we get a firm start date I reckon that we start tapping the catering establishments in and around St P to see if we can set up a launch breakfast.
Do you remember that site Raildude that we looked at a while back? I wonder if they are up to booking the grungy bits of the itinerary.
Btw - your lot seem set on winning the cup the hard way.
PS Eurostar website says "Standard class - satisfy your appetite at our on board buffet. Gluten free meals require 36 hours notice" (I paraphrase) There needs to be a warning off notice somewhere for dietary prima donnas.
See the following thread at post #1 for what GCEK is all about and just click his picture and then click "message" if you wish to communicate.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g274881-i262-k5053702-Overnight_Sleeper-Hungary.html
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g274881-i262-k5053702-Overnight_Sleeper-Hungary.html
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Mark_Lester
Member
I did that, he said "wing it", then admitted that it would be "hard" to do that with a dozen people who would all like to be in a block and deffo on the train and in a sleeper.
so meet at 7:00 with slap up breakkie at the best fry up in x cross, how very british!
depart there at 8am for train.
a shot of sweet liquor in front of a gleaming eurostar platform, (administered on board then pop outside for group pic.)
don, how would you get from the budapest castle to the cog ?
Glenmutchkin
Member
I had a quick shufti on the web for potential venues and it looks quite hopeful, if possibly a little pricey. As I said if we start making booking enquiries the first question is likely to be when so we can park this for now.
This lot claim to be Balkan specialists. I'm not sure if they deal with the public but we are looking at wholesale quantities. We are going to need to buy the passes from somebody - perhaps that's the carrot we dangle?
http://www.railagent.com/
PS What about putting up a thread along the lines of "Anyone got experience of group travel in the Balkans?". Perhaps that could be worded a bit more snappily.
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I have been following the TA forums (fori?) for this region for years, and this set of questions comes up with alarming regularity. It usually goes something like this:
HI (insert optional exclamation point) My husband and I would like to take an overnight sleeper from Vienna (Venice, Prague, Budapest) to Istambul (Sofia, Bucharest, etc.). We have tried the online ticket sites but have had no luck. Does anyone know how to make these work? Or do we have to buy the tickets in Vienna (etc.)? Thanks (insert optional smiley face).
I have never, ever see anyone come back with a eureka, I've done it. The sad fact seems to be that once you dip your big toe into non-EU waters, things become very murky. The good news is you have 1&1/2 years to sort it out.
The general rule seems to be most of these sites ask a series of questions and then when you get to the "buy now" button, they either freeze up or take you back to the beginning. It occurs to me the state governments see this as a cash cow, forcing passengers to get out at Zagreb, Sofia, Bucharest, etc. to buy a ticket (food, drinks) before continuing the journey. None of them are partners in some vast Euro-rail agreement.
This ain't going to be a Wagon-lits tour. Nerves will fray and tempers will flare, especially the guy that gets stuck with the seat next to the toilet and the Albanian eating the garlic sausage. But, this is where your Balkan funny money can be put to good use for sops to move and consolidate your group.
You could try the following site to see how far down the penisula it will take you. Don't try to reveserve too far in advance, say maybe a week or two. There are icons at the bottom to upgrade to sleepers, etc.
http://elvira.mav-start.hu/elvira.dll/xslms/uf
HI (insert optional exclamation point) My husband and I would like to take an overnight sleeper from Vienna (Venice, Prague, Budapest) to Istambul (Sofia, Bucharest, etc.). We have tried the online ticket sites but have had no luck. Does anyone know how to make these work? Or do we have to buy the tickets in Vienna (etc.)? Thanks (insert optional smiley face).
I have never, ever see anyone come back with a eureka, I've done it. The sad fact seems to be that once you dip your big toe into non-EU waters, things become very murky. The good news is you have 1&1/2 years to sort it out.
The general rule seems to be most of these sites ask a series of questions and then when you get to the "buy now" button, they either freeze up or take you back to the beginning. It occurs to me the state governments see this as a cash cow, forcing passengers to get out at Zagreb, Sofia, Bucharest, etc. to buy a ticket (food, drinks) before continuing the journey. None of them are partners in some vast Euro-rail agreement.
This ain't going to be a Wagon-lits tour. Nerves will fray and tempers will flare, especially the guy that gets stuck with the seat next to the toilet and the Albanian eating the garlic sausage. But, this is where your Balkan funny money can be put to good use for sops to move and consolidate your group.
You could try the following site to see how far down the penisula it will take you. Don't try to reveserve too far in advance, say maybe a week or two. There are icons at the bottom to upgrade to sleepers, etc.
http://elvira.mav-start.hu/elvira.dll/xslms/uf
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Glenmutchkin
Member
Don , The fundamental basis of this trip is the Interrail Pass which does include rail travel in all of the countries that we will be going to. In fact it covers everywhere in Europe except Albania. The trick is to find a way to reserve accommodation on trains that we have already got a basic ticket for. If this involves somebady making a profit so be it. We just need to find out who.
Pretty much the average experience of railway travellers across the UK these days. It's probably why nobody will let them into Interrail.
mickpop
Member
This reminds me of an amusing anecdote of the 'lost in translation' kind. Many years ago I was on holiday in what was then Yugoslavia. I prided myself in having learned Russian in school in preference to French and so was familiar with the Cyrillic alphabet used in several countries in the region. Many words bore a very close resemblance to the Russian ones. One day I was out walking and noticed several roadside stalls selling watermelons. - each had a sign announcing 'dobrey dyinya'. Now I knew dobrey meant 'good' and that dyen meant 'day.' Though this seemed odd I assumed it was a local advertising gimmick as is in 'Good day -buy my lovely watermelons!'. It was fortunate that I finally realised that dyinya meant melons before I had greeted an attractive young woman by complimenting on her good melons which might have resulted in a slap across the face!
It can work both ways of course. I was once in a dimly lit bar in Warsaw in Iron Curtain days when I as approached by a young woman who asked me if 'I had a fire for her'. I thought this was rather premature as we had only just met but then realised that she had translated from the German 'Haben sie Feuer bitte?' [do you have a light please?].Then again I latterly realised her profession was one of the oldest and maybe I had heard it right the first time.
Glenmutchkin
Member
Mick. Was your entire early life spent in a John Le Carre novel?
"The Gricer that Came in From the Cold" perhaps.
mickpop
Member
I'll keep my other tales from behind the Iron Curtain and other dubious places for those long boring evening hours on the train - some too risque for Le Carre.
Glenmutchkin
Member
More like "Tales of the Unexpurgated" then?
I wouldn't! That is why I recommended you ride the Siklo up and down. Unless you have tons of time and want to walk hand in hand up the cobble stone street to the romantic overlook view...stay off the hill. There is no easy way to get anywhere from the hill.
There is Bletchley Park, easy chair, map studying adventure, (how'd that Arnhem Bridge thing work out, Monty?) And then there is "boots on the ground", in the field recon intel that will tell you where the mines are buried.
I shall attempt to meld the two intineraries into something that will work for all. In the meantime, here is a web site that will drive you mad with options:
http://www.bkv.hu/en/
Mark_Lester
Member
i dont want to walk up, i want to walk down. It's only a few hundred meters.
I'm on manouvres so will catch up later.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
here is a crop from osm
http://gcirc.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/map-1.png
how hard can it be to get from the castle (big grey thing) to dozsy gyorgy ter (tram station) via those stairs
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
the romanian word for fire is incendiu, (acc google translate) but I was invited into a warmer room in some freezing pub in brasov with this lady declaring what is perhaps the most famous word in the english language which begins with f, and pointing to this door and smiling with a "and it will be nice and warm" face. I looked round in panic before the meaning was explained, though I'm not actually sure now which language she was trying to speak.
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