HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 16,732
With Great Western electrification works to Bristol and Cardiff underway, apparent extension of electrification to Hull on the cards (if it has not been already commited, or atleast linking Selby to the southbound ECML with electrics anyway) and the impending order of huge numbers of Bi-mode IEP, it would appear that shortly there will be a large number of HSTs which will be surplus to requirements on both the Great Western and East Coast routes.
If Midland Main Line electrification is commited this will result in yet more HSTs being made surplus to existing requirements, but I'm not sure this is actually going to happen any time soon.
So what happens to them? The persistant rumours about HSTs being retained for service to Cornwall and the like would seem to indicate that atleast someone thinks they have a long useful life remaining if they are rebuilt to fit with DDA restrictions. Therefore in this age of Austerity/Value for Money (see McNulty) simply selling them for scrap would seem to be the height of wastefulness.
So I decided to work out some ideas about how to use them to help provide large amounts of diesel stock for capacity enhancement and Pacer replacement on-the-cheap.
Assumptions I made in developing this idea/plan thing:
Phase 1 - The Great Western
Great Western currently has 117 power cars available , enough to form 58 sets, all of which I understand are or will shortly be 2+8 formations. (So 468 trailer vehicles)
So with 12 sets (roughly?) being retained for services to Cornwall (with 96 trailers) this would enable 46 sets to be cascaded.
1. 5 shortened sets (2+5, 25 trailers) would be cascaded internally to free all five Cl180s currently used by FGW for cascading to Grand Central, allowing all three of it's HSTs to be added to the cascade pool. (They apparently were originally happy with double forming Cl180s anyway). (Net cost: 2 power car pairs and 1 trailer vehicle)
2. 29 shortened sets (2+5, 145 trailers) would be cascaded to CrossCountry, allowing the Cl220s and some Cl221s to be freed (largely those on the quieter diagrams taht do not require doubling-up), allowing Cl221s to be cascaded onto the Cl220 diagrams and the Cl220s to replace XC's entire fleet of turbostars.
As these shortened sets will have potentially 50% greater seating capacity than a Cl220 has at present (I calculate 280 second class and 34 first class with a catering base/buffet counter at the end of the rake), this would mean fewer diagrams would have to be doubled up, permitting a greater percentage of busy workings to be. The net effect of the cascade is 21 additional Voyager sets in seat numbers terms.
The 29 Turbostars will be released to the Cascade Pool.
3. 12 shortened (2+7, 84 trailers) HSTs will be cascaded to EMT for use on the Liverpool-Norwich regional express. Travel times would be retained at current levels or improved by use of the 110-125mph running available on the traversed sections of the WCML, MML and ECML, and by implementing targetted track measures to implement HST100 differentials on the Breckland Line and on parts of the southern Liverpool-Manchester line.
Platform length issues at Manchester Oxford Road will be dealt with either by withdrawing the stop, allowing the trains to foul points east of the station and using SDO or by bringing forward the long proposed reconstruction of the station.
The provision of 12 trains will allow 18 Cl158s to be be released from EMT to the cascade pool and provide drastically increased capacity on the heavily loaded sections of the route, especially west of Nottingham.
4. Cascade 15 trailer vehicles to Greater Anglia for conversion into loco hauled vehicles, this will permit all the Cl90 loco hauled rakes to be operated with 9 Mark 3s instead of the current mixed lengths.
After Phase 1 the Cascade pool consists of: 7 power cars, 127 trailer vehicles, 16 3-coach Turbostars, 13 2-coach Turbostars and 18 2-coach express sprinters.
Phase 2 - The East Coast
The deployment of IEP bi-mode on what appears to be all off-wire services on the ECML will release 30 power cars and 117 trailer vehicles. This increases the Cascade Pool to: 37 power cars, 220 trailer vehicles, 16 3-coach turbostars, 13 2-coach turbostars and 18 2-coach Express Sprinters.
5. Cascade 10 full length (2+8, 80 trailers) and 8 shortened (2+5, 40 trailers) HST sets to ScotRail for operations on Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen, as well as some trains to Inverness. Journey times over the whole length of the route would be maintained by improvements to line speeds utilising additional HST differentials.
This would permit 20 3-carriage Cl170s to be released to the cascade pool. (The likely improved utilisation of the larger fleet of Turbostars rather than a smaller fleet of HSTs would be countered in that I believe atleast some Aberdeen-Edinburgh/Glasgow services run doubled up at the present time).
6. The remaining power car and 8 trailers would be preserved and perhaps converted for operation with the surviving prototype power car as a heritage train.
7. Six additional trailer cars could be converted to loco hauled vehicles and cascaded internally to enable the addition of more seated carriages to the Night Riviera, permitting it to always operate as a 9 carriage formation. (Assuming a Class 57 can handle that many carraiges and keep to time).
Phase 3 - Dispersal
There are people on this forum who are better able to determine how to disperse the 36 3-coach Turbostars, 13 2-coach Turbostars, 18 2-coach Express sprinters and remaining 110 trailer vehicles, so I will throw the floor open.
If Midland Main Line electrification is commited this will result in yet more HSTs being made surplus to existing requirements, but I'm not sure this is actually going to happen any time soon.
So what happens to them? The persistant rumours about HSTs being retained for service to Cornwall and the like would seem to indicate that atleast someone thinks they have a long useful life remaining if they are rebuilt to fit with DDA restrictions. Therefore in this age of Austerity/Value for Money (see McNulty) simply selling them for scrap would seem to be the height of wastefulness.
So I decided to work out some ideas about how to use them to help provide large amounts of diesel stock for capacity enhancement and Pacer replacement on-the-cheap.
Assumptions I made in developing this idea/plan thing:
- Although rebuilidng them along the lines of the Chiltern Power-Door sets would be acceptable, no new equipment (such as locomotives) will be purchased due to the relatively short revenue life remaining on the Mark 3s
- A shortened 2+5 HST formation can match the acceleration and thus timings of a Cl22x or Cl180
- IEP Bi-mode will be ordered and will displace all off-wires workings on EC and GW other than the services to Cornwall
- Services to Cornwall etc. will require approximately 12 sets, 5 of which will be the First owned ones, freeing the rest of the GW inventory for cascade
- Grand Central, which is currently using both Cl180s and HSTs can be pursuaded relatively easily to trade it's HSTs for additional Cl180s to afford it a standardised fleet.
- Shortened HSTs would be usable on the Cotswold line and passengers would be equally happy to travel on a rebuilt HST as they would on a more modern Cl180.
- The signalling on the Breckland line has been upgraded to have sighting distances suitable for 100mph running, allowing HST100 differentials to be implemented with only track upgrade works.
Phase 1 - The Great Western
Great Western currently has 117 power cars available , enough to form 58 sets, all of which I understand are or will shortly be 2+8 formations. (So 468 trailer vehicles)
So with 12 sets (roughly?) being retained for services to Cornwall (with 96 trailers) this would enable 46 sets to be cascaded.
1. 5 shortened sets (2+5, 25 trailers) would be cascaded internally to free all five Cl180s currently used by FGW for cascading to Grand Central, allowing all three of it's HSTs to be added to the cascade pool. (They apparently were originally happy with double forming Cl180s anyway). (Net cost: 2 power car pairs and 1 trailer vehicle)
2. 29 shortened sets (2+5, 145 trailers) would be cascaded to CrossCountry, allowing the Cl220s and some Cl221s to be freed (largely those on the quieter diagrams taht do not require doubling-up), allowing Cl221s to be cascaded onto the Cl220 diagrams and the Cl220s to replace XC's entire fleet of turbostars.
As these shortened sets will have potentially 50% greater seating capacity than a Cl220 has at present (I calculate 280 second class and 34 first class with a catering base/buffet counter at the end of the rake), this would mean fewer diagrams would have to be doubled up, permitting a greater percentage of busy workings to be. The net effect of the cascade is 21 additional Voyager sets in seat numbers terms.
The 29 Turbostars will be released to the Cascade Pool.
3. 12 shortened (2+7, 84 trailers) HSTs will be cascaded to EMT for use on the Liverpool-Norwich regional express. Travel times would be retained at current levels or improved by use of the 110-125mph running available on the traversed sections of the WCML, MML and ECML, and by implementing targetted track measures to implement HST100 differentials on the Breckland Line and on parts of the southern Liverpool-Manchester line.
Platform length issues at Manchester Oxford Road will be dealt with either by withdrawing the stop, allowing the trains to foul points east of the station and using SDO or by bringing forward the long proposed reconstruction of the station.
The provision of 12 trains will allow 18 Cl158s to be be released from EMT to the cascade pool and provide drastically increased capacity on the heavily loaded sections of the route, especially west of Nottingham.
4. Cascade 15 trailer vehicles to Greater Anglia for conversion into loco hauled vehicles, this will permit all the Cl90 loco hauled rakes to be operated with 9 Mark 3s instead of the current mixed lengths.
After Phase 1 the Cascade pool consists of: 7 power cars, 127 trailer vehicles, 16 3-coach Turbostars, 13 2-coach Turbostars and 18 2-coach express sprinters.
Phase 2 - The East Coast
The deployment of IEP bi-mode on what appears to be all off-wire services on the ECML will release 30 power cars and 117 trailer vehicles. This increases the Cascade Pool to: 37 power cars, 220 trailer vehicles, 16 3-coach turbostars, 13 2-coach turbostars and 18 2-coach Express Sprinters.
5. Cascade 10 full length (2+8, 80 trailers) and 8 shortened (2+5, 40 trailers) HST sets to ScotRail for operations on Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen, as well as some trains to Inverness. Journey times over the whole length of the route would be maintained by improvements to line speeds utilising additional HST differentials.
This would permit 20 3-carriage Cl170s to be released to the cascade pool. (The likely improved utilisation of the larger fleet of Turbostars rather than a smaller fleet of HSTs would be countered in that I believe atleast some Aberdeen-Edinburgh/Glasgow services run doubled up at the present time).
6. The remaining power car and 8 trailers would be preserved and perhaps converted for operation with the surviving prototype power car as a heritage train.
7. Six additional trailer cars could be converted to loco hauled vehicles and cascaded internally to enable the addition of more seated carriages to the Night Riviera, permitting it to always operate as a 9 carriage formation. (Assuming a Class 57 can handle that many carraiges and keep to time).
Phase 3 - Dispersal
There are people on this forum who are better able to determine how to disperse the 36 3-coach Turbostars, 13 2-coach Turbostars, 18 2-coach Express sprinters and remaining 110 trailer vehicles, so I will throw the floor open.
Last edited: