The impact of tilt on keeping a train on the track or do you need tilt to go around a corner faster?

[Railperf]

Thanks. Those are different figures for Glasgow from your 4h47 and 4h08 and all this leaves the question of 125 non-tilt hanging in the air. Plainly that wouldnlt win back all of the time but it would win some. I still cannot see any more tilting trains being ordered for the UK.

Tilt is becoming less fashionable across Europe too.
Swiss Railways will be introducing new Giruno non-tilt trainsets to run from Zurich to Milan and Venice replacing tilting ETR610 trainsets.
Trenitalias open access competitor Italo has also purchased non-tilt versions of the latest Pendolino despite the fact that these have to run on existing lines at slightly slower speeds with a small time penalty. In fact the Italo ETR 675 units are also running between Venice Milan and Turin over high speed lines built for 300kmh at only 250km/h - again with a small time penalty compared to Trenitalia ETR500 and Frecciarossa 1000 units which run at the full 300km/h. Though the ETR500s take a lot more time to reach 300km/h.

 

[a_c_skinner]

As a lay observer I am not surprised. In UK 140 mph is off the cards forever I suspect and a combination of faster acceleration, slightly more liberal views of lateral forces, tamping the track a little differently, different stopping patterns and losing a few minutes will come into play an see the end of tilt. HS2 will (ha! might) bypass the bit of the WCML where tilt makes most difference too.

 

[Railperf]

In Italy. ...upgrading of the Adriatic route with improvements to curvature, cant, signalling etc...sees the fastest non-tilt speeds on the upgraded sections equal the fastest speeds allowed with tilting stock. Only on the more severe curves are there any differences but usually in the region of only 10 to 20km/h (6 to 12mph) in favour of tilting stock. Hardly enough additional speed to make a huge difference to timetables. Funny how Trenitalia have resisted using tilting stock along the Adriatic route - preferring to use non-tilt stock in spite of potential time savings using tilting stock. The longer term view seems to be to upgrade the whole route so that all suitable stock can run at higher speeds.

 

[Railperf]

I vividly remember that the proposed 140mph timing for Manchester was 1h52 with one stop. This was in the specification for the West Coast upgrade.

HSTs were tested between London and Manchester non stop IIRC in timings of just over 2 hours. I cannot remember how much 110+mph running was achieved at the time but can find out.

 

[Railperf]

The million dollar question is just how much of the WCML can be run at more than 110mph and the time savings over 110mph non EPS limits compared to current 125mph EPS limits.
I would expect to see a raising of some non EPS limits now that there is some non EPS stock (Class 397) capable of running at 125mph. Previous to this the only 125mph stock operating on the WCML apart from Pendolinos has been diverted ECML HSTs.