The Labour Government's Buses Bill, franchising, quality contracts/partnerships, deregulation.....

[TheGrandWazoo]

Do those average speeds include time stationary at stops? If they do then the reduced headways will increase the dwell time at stops, and the increased dwell time will slow everything down.

Yes, they do include time at stops However, as we are continually told, London's open boarding and dual door means that this is ruthlessly efficient; it is quicker, I know, and it shows just how bad the road conditions are!

As a regular user of buses in Exeter, I find dwell time at bus stops is one of the biggest causes of delay. This is partly due to the need for every passenger to have a transaction with the driver and partly to the design of buses, with a single narrow door for both boarding and alighting, the norm throughout Britain of course except for London and a few other cities. On the continent city buses almost always have two doors - three or four if articulated - and it's rare in my experience for anyone to buy a ticket from the driver. How much of the continental experience is transferable to Britain, even with franchising?

So in Exeter, you have the operator (Stagecoach) taking the revenue risk, paying for the higher capital and maintenance, and having a lower seating capacity. It's a different model and that influences vehicle design.

I was in Portsmouth on Saturday and most passengers either had an ENCTS pass, or scanned an m-ticket. A few £2 fares but wonder how many were adhocs.

 

[Edvid]

Bus operations in England (exc. London) to receive £1.076bn of funding over the next year or so - split across the £3 fare cap (£151m, 2025), BSOG (£285m, FY 2025/26) and LTA allocations (£640m, FY2025/26).

LTAs in England to get £640m bus service funding in FY2025/26 - routeone

LTAs in England outside London will ger £640 million of funding in FY2025/26 for bus service support and improvement.

www.route-one.net

Local transport authorities (LTAs) in England outside London will get £640 million of funding to support and improve bus services in FY2025/26 via what is understood to effectively be a continuation of the current Bus Service Improvement Plan approach.

That sits alongside £151 million allocated to continuing the national bus fare cap in England at £3 in 2025, and £285 million to Bus Service Operators Grant (BSOG) in FY2025/26 to continue and protect existing services. Amounts of LTA-specific funding as applicable will be set out in November.

The Department for Transport (DfT) has outlined the value of each stream, but in a muddled announcement it also says that £925 million – the sum of the BSOG and LTA allocations – will be open to use by local authorities to improve and protect services.

Nevertheless, the streams equal almost £1.1 billion of bus service and bus passenger funding in England outside London to the end of FY2025/26. LTAs will be able to use their allocations to introduce new routes, improve frequencies, and secure existing provision.

 

[Ghostbus]

What happened to the idea BSIP funding was categorically not for securing existing services?

Improvement. Not managed decline.

 

[duncombec]

What happened to the idea BSIP funding was categorically not for securing existing services?

Improvement. Not managed decline.

I believe that was true for the original round of BSIP funding, but not the subsequent BSIP+ monies.

In any case, you can perhaps see why: no local authority was going to be able to justify spending vast amounts of money on a "political vanity project" whilst at the same time cutting regular bus routes (especially those that were suffering purely as a result of Covid, not those which had been basket cases for years).

 

[Ghostbus]

I believe that was true for the original round of BSIP funding, but not the subsequent BSIP+ monies.

In any case, you can perhaps see why: no local authority was going to be able to justify spending vast amounts of money on a "political vanity project" whilst at the same time cutting regular bus routes (especially those that were suffering purely as a result of Covid, not those which had been basket cases for years).

No I don't see why. In my area, BSIP funding was used to immediately halve the cost of an all operator all modes day ticket, and reduce the average delays caused by traffic lights by a quarter.

It blows my mind that someone genuinely thought this was a less effective use of central government funding than continuing to subsidise specific routes that in all likelihood would still be an unsustainable drain on council budgets even after the BSIP benefits had been fully felt (but well before any more drastic changes such as franchising has been implemented).

Even the £2 fare was arguably a far better way of ensuring subsidised routes under immediate threat could be sustained in the short term, especially since we're now going into the winter period where cycling/walking is far less attractive and staying at home is far more attractive.

 

[mjc]

No I don't see why. In my area, BSIP funding was used to immediately halve the cost of an all operator all modes day ticket, and reduce the average delays caused by traffic lights by a quarter.

It blows my mind that someone genuinely thought this was a less effective use of central government funding than continuing to subsidise specific routes that in all likelihood would still be an unsustainable drain on council budgets even after the BSIP benefits had been fully felt (but well before any more drastic changes such as franchising has been implemented).

Even the £2 fare was arguably a far better way of ensuring subsidised routes under immediate threat could be sustained in the short term, especially since we're now going into the winter period where cycling/walking is far less attractive and staying at home is far more attractive.

But strictly speaking if the money couldn’t be used to support existing services then it couldn’t be used to subsidise day tickets, reduce traffic delays on existing routes etc.

 

[RT4038]

But strictly speaking if the money couldn’t be used to support existing services then it couldn’t be used to subsidise day tickets, reduce traffic delays on existing routes etc.

I think you are making up the 'strictly speaking' , because that was not the case in the rules. BSIP funding was specifically allocated to Authorities that promised to introduce (specific) bus priority. In the case of the Authority of my residence, there is no political will to introduce bus priority, so no promises were made and no BSIP funding followed. BSIP funds were a carrot for LAs to introduce bus priority (and take the flak from the majority of voters). Mine simply refused - the flak not being worth the improved bus services which would only benefit a minority of voters.

 

[johncrossley]

Buses are headline news today

'London-style' buses to be delivered nationwide with £1bn boost

The Department for Transport says funding will be allocated based on levels of deprivation and population.

www.bbc.co.uk

Almost £1bn in funding will go to delivering London-style buses nationwide as part of a massive Budget boost, the government has promised.
The Department for Transport (DfT) has given more details on its plans for 2025 after announcing the funding last month.
It has promised to deliver what it calls "London-style" services to every corner of the country, and said funding would be allocated based on levels of deprivation and population, instead of making areas compete for investment as it has in previous years.
The DfT says Leicester, the Isle of Wight, Torbay, Southend, Cambridgeshire and Peterborough are set to receive "unprecedented" levels of funding.
In total, there will be £712m for local authorities to improve services, alongside a further £243m for bus operators.

Even the Sunday Mirror has this on the front page!

 

[Lynford1976]

Does the promise of "London-style" bus services mean that plans for Borismaster cascades to the provinces are now being worked up?

(He says flippantly)

 

[Ken H]

Its my understanding that Manchester bus franchising meant bus garages in Gtr Manchester were transferred from bus companies.

But N Yorks is different. The skipton - Lancaster bus operates in N Yorks and in Lancashire from a garage in Morecambe. The company also operates buses in N Lancashire. So how could a N Yorks franchise manage that.
But there are bus garages in Harrogate, York and Malton where buses run into leeds and do local journeys in W Yorks. A Coastliner bus will happily take you to Seacroft in Leeds on its way to Scarborough or Whitby.
Parochial provision of public transport never works properly.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Its my understanding that Manchester bus franchising meant bus garages in Gtr Manchester were transferred from bus companies.

But N Yorks is different. The skipton - Lancaster bus operates in N Yorks and in Lancashire from a garage in Morecambe. The company also operates buses in N Lancashire. So how could a N Yorks franchise manage that.
But there are bus garages in Harrogate, York and Malton where buses run into leeds and do local journeys in W Yorks. A Coastliner bus will happily take you to Seacroft in Leeds on its way to Scarborough or Whitby.
Parochial provision of public transport never works properly.

Buses run in from St Helens, Preston and Chorley into Greater Manchester. There are ways and means.

 

[Delenn]

1 billion is nowhere near enough to provide "London style services" everywhere.

 

[65477]

The full Government press release is here and adds a bit to the BBC report

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...s-across-england-to-help-end-postcode-lottery

 

[slowroad]

1 billion is nowhere near enough to provide "London style services" everywhere.

Yes - its both ludicrous and obfuscating of the basic fact that it is wholly unrealistic to propose such a level of service in areas of low population density.

 

[DaveHarries]

As someone who does not have membership of any party I'm not trying to make a political point here but based on what I have seen since July I am far from impressed and I doubt that London-style bus services will improve anything. Same with the GBR idea.

Dave

 

[baza585]

The full Government press release is here and adds a bit to the BBC report

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...s-across-england-to-help-end-postcode-lottery

Thanks for the link which I have read. What I can't find is a full list by county council. Can anyone help?

 

[johncrossley]

1 billion is nowhere near enough to provide "London style services" everywhere.

"London style" doesn't actually commit to anything in particular. It is just a phrase that sounds good in press releases. Originally it was a shorthand for competitive tendering of bus services, and of course that can be done anywhere.

 

[65477]

1 billion is nowhere near enough to provide "London style services" everywhere.

I have always read "London style services" to relate to tendering and not to the frequency. Also on the outskirts of London bus frequency is no where near that nearer the centre.

Hopefully tendering and the money allocation will lead to cross subsidy onto evening and Sunday services. One bus corridor near us has a 2 bph service during the day but only a couple of evening runs. In many villages there is a hourly service but nothing after 18:00

 

[johncrossley]

Also on the outskirts of London bus frequency is no where near that nearer the centre.

Compared to the other big cities, there is less of a difference between the centre and the edge. The majority of routes, whether in inner or outer London, run every 12 minutes or better daytime and every 20 minutes or better evenings and Sundays. The main difference is the overnight service, where you have regular buses on many routes in inner London, whereas the overnight service in outer London is relatively sparse, although still enviable compared to most places.

 

[Megafuss]

Whilst empathetic to the Isle of Wight receiving "unprecedented levels of funding", this is an area with a fantastic service already. Surely what we want is other areas aspiring to be like Southern Vectis?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

"London style" doesn't actually commit to anything in particular. It is just a phrase that sounds good in press releases. Originally it was a shorthand for competitive tendering of bus services, and of course that can be done anywhere.

If there's no commitment to improving things, then a £1.5bn price tag seems a bit pointless?

If it's £1.5bn to fund capital investment in bus priority and pump priming of services, then that's great. If it's to simply buy bus depots and other assets, then that seems rather pointless.

I have always read "London style services" to relate to tendering and not to the frequency. Also on the outskirts of London bus frequency is no where near that nearer the centre.

Arguably, the problem in London is being addressed but mainly through the removal and reduction of central London services. So many have been reduced in frequency, curtailed or axed completely so yeah, that disparity is being addressed!!

Whilst empathetic to the Isle of Wight receiving "unprecedented levels of funding", this is an area with a fantastic service already. Surely what we want is other areas aspiring to be like Southern Vectis?

I can only assume that it's the Freshwater route 12 and the various town services that don't have decent service levels?

 

[Rapidash]

I'm intrigued what routes in Torbay are being eyed up for an increase. Most of the Stagecoach routes are fairly regular, so I'm guessing it'll be more focused on the contract services being run by the smaller operators.

 

[PGAT]

If there's no commitment to improving things, then a £1.5bn price tag seems a bit pointless?

If it's £1.5bn to fund capital investment in bus priority and pump priming of services, then that's great. If it's to simply buy bus depots and other assets, then that seems rather pointless.


Arguably, the problem in London is being addressed but mainly through the removal and reduction of central London services. So many have been reduced in frequency, curtailed or axed completely so yeah, that disparity is being addressed!!


I can only assume that it's the Freshwater route 12 and the various town services that don't have decent service levels?

As always the devil is in the detail. The article doesn't provide much insight other than giving us that £billion figure to work with so we will have to wait and see I guess

 

[johncrossley]

It looks quite embarrassing for Scotland now, being the only part of the UK still pursuing deregulation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It looks quite embarrassing for Scotland now, being the only part of the UK still pursuing deregulation.

Except that Strathclyde is pursuing "franchising", is it not?

Of course, deregulation is the reason why buses have declined in Glasgow and nothing to do with successive car-centric moves like a massive motorway building programme

 

[Russel]

My area, like many other areas, the problem isn't lack of services or poor frequencies, the problem is reliability, my local service has a 15 minute frequency and some days it's perfect, but more often than not, I'll nip into town in the car as I just can't be bothered to wait around at a bus stop for a bus that may or may not turn up.

Unless franchising becomes widespread with penalties for poor performance, companies like Arriva who have given up are never going to improve.

 

[PaulWC]

It's an interesting line about "funding would be allocated based on levels of deprivation and population, instead of making areas compete for investment as it has in previous years" which is OK in theory, but taking my local area as an example, Warrington has had a huge investment in new electric buses and depot for the council bus company, increased frequencies and new routes, while down the road in Cheshire East some core routes have had Sunday services reintroduced, but other services are hanging on with a group of rural services around Nantwich abandoned. Cheshire East will probably get enough to prop up the current network, but the nearest they'll get to a 'London style service' will be D&G's red buses.

 

[GusB]

It looks quite embarrassing for Scotland now, being the only part of the UK still pursuing deregulation.

I don't think it's the case that Scotland is still "pursuing deregulation". You're completely overlooking the fact that many parts of Scotland never really felt the effects of deregulation in the first place; I don't recall seeing multiple operators trying to muscle in on my local services!

In some areas there was a brief flurry of "free market" competition at the very beginning and, to an extent, some competition still exists where the market will bear it. Let's not kid ourselves, though - much of that early competition simply resulted in one monopoly operator being replaced by another.

It's all rather moot anyway as transport is devolved and whatever legislation the current Labour administration proposes won't be applicable here.

 

[Starmill]

It appears to be that nearly all of the £955 million for next year is actually just rolling over after the end of the the Fare Cap Grant and previous Covid grants? So in effect the English bus industry will have only a tad more funding in real terms next year than it did this year, or last year.

If there's no commitment to improving things, then a £1.5bn price tag seems a bit pointless?

If it's £1.5bn to fund capital investment in bus priority and pump priming of services, then that's great. If it's to simply buy bus depots and other assets, then that seems rather pointless.


Arguably, the problem in London is being addressed but mainly through the removal and reduction of central London services. So many have been reduced in frequency, curtailed or axed completely so yeah, that disparity is being addressed!!

Ultimately £955 million divided among very local authority area in England isn't very much money, even after subtracting the 33 in London.

 

[markymark2000]

When are the various ministers going to learn that keeping throwing money at a failing industry isn't going to work. The issue is the number of low quality staff being employed into transport roles. You can throw hundreds of billions at transport, but it will amount to nothing if you keep waving £50 notes under bus operators noses (which is incentivising operators to drop marginal services to instead persue more contracts), and money keeps being wasted by local authorities on short term benefits, fare offers that only benefit a minority, services which are designed poorly (whether that be poorly designed by bus operators or local authorities).

Poor planning policies or perhaps poor guidance from the govt means more and more developments are being built without any way for people to access public transport (whether the site is no public transport friendly, there is no funding for a bus, or the bus isn't viable whatever it may be).

Look at all of the money that TFL has, and yet even there bus speeds are decreasing, money is being spent on routes just to satisfy certain religions. Bus lanes are being removed to make space for cycle lanes etc etc.

We've seen it in the NHS and you can't just keep throwing money at it and suddenly it works. Buses need a large scale change to put a rocket up the industry. Rid the cowboy operators, rid low quality local authority staff and operator staff. Sort out any planning/guidance issues relating to new development sites or bus priority etc. Make cars more expensive to use and stop the constant subsidising of car users with things like free parking and freezing fuel duty.