The Last ever fast express train hauled by steam locomotives.

[Merseyrailfan]

Good morning,
Did any steam locomotives work express workings after withdrawal of southern steam in 1967, with the withdrawal of bulled Pacifics from the South West Main Line after electrification to Bournemouth. I know steam locos still ran in Lancashire area, with few hundred steam locos still in operation by 1968, I remember Black 5s operating some passenger trains, although Steam at that point was on mostly freight workings with 8Fs and few standards? Could any one help me out?
Thank You

 

[70014IronDuke]

Depends on what you mean 'exactly' by 'express' I suppose, but the last scheduled Class 1 train (indeed any passenger train) hauled by standard-guage steam was the 21.18 (? I always forget the exact time) Preston to Liverpool Exchange on Saturday, 3rd August, 1968.
Loco 45318 I think. Driver Ernie Hayes. Lostock Hall.

It was non-stop.

EDIT It was, of course, the back end of a Glasgow+Edinburgh to Manchester+Liverpool train that split at Preston. Hence the short-haul by steam.

I'm not sure about 'named' trains. There was a Man Vic to Heysham evening train dubbed "The Belfast Boat Express" which was steam hauled until May ??? 68 - but I'm not sure if that was an official BR name or just enthusiasts' talk.

 

[L+Y]

The Liverpool Exchange to Preston portion workings generally ran fast from Liverpool to Preston in 1968, so I'd say these count. Did the Preston to Blackpool workings also run fast?

There were stops at Ormskirk and Burscough Junction southbound only on some workings.

 

[52290]

I traveled on the Belfast Boat Express from Manchester Victoria to Preston behind Black 5 45342 on Saturday 4th May 1968.

I traveled on the Belfast Boat Express from Manchester Victoria to Preston behind Black 5 45342 on Saturday 4th May 1968.

Thinking about the above I think this was the last time this train would be steam hauled. I'm sure I have a photo of it somewhere although it was getting dark at departure time and my Halina 35x loaded with Ilford FP3 didn't do dark.
I'll try and root it out.

 

[Harvester]

This has been mentioned in a previous thread, but worth repeating. The last regular BR steam hauled ‘express’ passenger train was the FO Manchester Exchange to York during the autumn of 1967 which stopped at Huddersfield and Leeds. It was diagramed for a Kingmoor engine on a cyclic diagram, usually a Black Five or Britannia, and was last steam hauled on Friday 29/12/1967 by Brit 70013.

 

[47296lastduff]

I was on that last FO working behind 70013, but it cannot have been via Hudd, as I got off at Rochdale.

 

[Harvester]

I was on that last FO working behind 70013, but it cannot have been via Hudd, as I got off at Rochdale.

I stand corrected. By that time it had been rerouted and used the Calder Valley line to get to Mirfield, and so missed Huddersfield.

 

[70014IronDuke]

This has been mentioned in a previous thread, but worth repeating. The last regular BR steam hauled ‘express’ passenger train was the FO Manchester Exchange to York during the autumn of 1967 which stopped at Huddersfield and Leeds. It was diagramed for a Kingmoor engine on a cyclic diagram, usually a Black Five or Britannia, and was last steam hauled on Friday 29/12/1967 by Brit 70013.

Why would you deem this a more important 'express' than either the Belfast Boat Train or the last Preston - Liverpool Exchange working? All were Class 1 trains, plain and simple (I presume) - but none were Class 1 plus (which you might say applied to, say, the Flying Scotsman, Elizabethan or original diesel Blue Pullmans and a few others - which were also Class 1, but obviously given extra attention by the operating departments).

 

[The Crab]

Why would you deem this a more important 'express' than either the Belfast Boat Train or the last Preston - Liverpool Exchange working? All were Class 1 trains, plain and simple (I presume) - but none were Class 1 plus (which you might say applied to, say, the Flying Scotsman, Elizabethan or original diesel Blue Pullmans and a few others - which were also Class 1, but obviously given extra attention by the operating departments).

Because it was end to end steam?

 

[Harvester]

Because it was end to end steam?

Yes, the ‘Prestons’ and Belfast Boat train were ‘portions‘ with other traction used for the longer part of the journey!

 

[robert thomas]

Yes, the ‘Prestons’ and Belfast Boat train were ‘portions‘ with other traction used for the longer part of the journey!

The Belfast Boat express was a self contained through train and not a portion.The loco either ran round at Morecambe or had another loco take it forward to Heysham Harbour.

 

[Harvester]

The Belfast Boat express was a self contained through train and not a portion.The loco either ran round at Morecambe or had another loco take it forward to Heysham Harbour.

Thanks for clarifying. I was thinking of the final leg of a different train (the Ulster Express? from Euston).

 

[Revaulx]

I'm not sure about 'named' trains. There was a Man Vic to Heysham evening train dubbed "The Belfast Boat Express" which was steam hauled until May ??? 68 - but I'm not sure if that was an official BR name or just enthusiasts' talk.

It was very much an official name, and appeared as such in the timetable.

It continued to run well into diesel days; my father and I got it in 1973 or 74. Pretty certain it was hauled by a 25.

 

[70014IronDuke]

It was very much an official name, and appeared as such in the timetable.

Thanks for the clarification.

It continued to run well into diesel days; my father and I got it in 1973 or 74. Pretty certain it was hauled by a 25.

I caught it too in 1970, several times around Easter that year - always Class 40. But it may have been de-named by then, I simply can't remember.

 

[Bevan Price]

The Liverpool Exchange to Preston portion workings generally ran fast from Liverpool to Preston in 1968, so I'd say these count. Did the Preston to Blackpool workings also run fast?

The Blackpool South portion of the 17:05 from London ran fast from Preston to Lytham, then called at St. Annes and Blackpool South.
45388 worked this train on Saturday 27 July 1968.

 

[Springs Branch]

There was a Man Vic to Heysham evening train dubbed "The Belfast Boat Express" which was steam hauled until May ??? 68 - but I'm not sure if that was an official BR name or just enthusiasts' talk.

It was very much an official name, and appeared as such in the timetable. . .

Well into the diesel era, the 1973-74 LMR Passenger timetable still named the 21:05 Man Vic to Heysham Harbour as The Belfast Boat Express. See attached scan of Table 54 from that year. BTW, Heysham station was certainly a busy spot in the late evening before the overnight ferry sailed!

. . . . It continued to run well into diesel days; my father and I got it in 1973 or 74. Pretty certain it was hauled by a 25.

The Derby Sulzers website has a photo of 25 082 hauling the last Belfast Boat Express (1P02), taken after dark at Bolton on 5 April 1975 - the day that Sealink sailings on the Heysham - Belfast route were withdrawn (allegedly because the ferry custom had been decimated by The Troubles in 1970s Northern Ireland)

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25082.html

25082 at Bolton on April 5th 1975 with the last Manchester Victoria - Heysham Harbour 'Belfast Boat Express', the boiler is steaming nicely. By this time the train no longer carried headboards, this had been discontinued after this service converted from steam to diesel working. Although the names of the crew are not known, it is believed they are from Newton Heath depot. Photo credited to Chris Baines

Did I once hear about the existence of a '2105 Club*', populated by cranks who regularly travelled on the Belfast Boat Express for at least part of its route (Manchester to Preston?) just to enjoy the haulage - presumably while it was a last outpost of steam?

(* 21:05 being the train's longstanding departure time from Manchester Victoria.)

 

[70014IronDuke]

The Blackpool South portion of the 17:05 from London ran fast from Preston to Lytham, then called at St. Annes and Blackpool South.
45388 worked this train on Saturday 27 July 1968.

Were you on it, Bevan? I was. Mayhem at Blackpool Sth, ISTR.

Well into the diesel era, the 1973-74 LMR Passenger timetable still named the 21:05 Man Vic to Heysham Harbour as The Belfast Boat Express. See attached scan of Table 54 from that year. BTW, Heysham station was certainly a busy spot in the late evening before the overnight ferry sailed!
View attachment 142877

Thank you. Intriguingly, the official name does not include the definite article.

Did I once hear about the existence of a '2105 Club*', populated by cranks who regularly travelled on the Belfast Boat Express for at least part of its route (Manchester to Preston?) just to enjoy the haulage - presumably while it was a last outpost of steam?

(* 21:05 being the train's longstanding departure time from Manchester Victoria.)

Quite likely. I never made it in steam days, but I know people who did. It had an almost 'cult' following in the early months of 1968 until the end of steam.

 

[Elecman]

Were you on it, Bevan? I was. Mayhem at Blackpool Sth, ISTR.

I was too from Preston

 

[Magdalia]

I traveled on the Belfast Boat Express from Manchester Victoria to Preston behind Black 5 45342 on Saturday 4th May 1968.

Thinking about the above I think this was the last time this train would be steam hauled.

Nearly but not quite.

Railway Magazine July 1975 had a short article Heysham's last boat trains.

It says that the up Belfast Boat Express on 6 May 1968 was BR's last steam hauled named train. There is a picture at Preston and the loco is 45025. However, Railway Observer July 1968 says that the last working was on the morning of Sunday 5 May 1968, which makes more sense, because 6 May 1968 was a Monday (see below). Railway Observer July 1968 agrees that 45342 on Saturday 4 May 1968 was the last steam hauled down working.

Well into the diesel era, the 1973-74 LMR Passenger timetable still named the 21:05 Man Vic to Heysham Harbour as The Belfast Boat Express.

The Derby Sulzers website has a photo of 25 082 hauling the last Belfast Boat Express (1P02), taken after dark at Bolton on 5 April 1975 - the day that Sealink sailings on the Heysham - Belfast route were withdrawn

1974/75 was the first BR All line timetable and it has the Belfast Boat Express 2105 (Mon-Sat) Manchester Vic-Heysham and 0610 (Tue-Sat)/0645 (Sun) Heysham-Manchester Vic.

The Railway Magazine article has pictures at Heysham of the last trains to connect with the boats, the 2105 Manchester Vic-Heysham on 5 April 1975 and the 0645 Heysham-Manchester Vic on 6 April 1975, both hailed by 25082. The headodes are 1P02 and 1J05 respectively.

The Railway Magazine article also says that, although the boats finished on the night of 5/6 April 1975, the trains continued to run until the end of the timetable on 4 May 1975.

 

[Taunton]

Did I once hear about the existence of a '2105 Club*', populated by cranks who regularly travelled on the Belfast Boat Express for at least part of its route (Manchester to Preston?) just to enjoy the haulage - presumably while it was a last outpost of steam?

I think there were a number of these. A onetime office colleague (in the 1980s in London) said he was one of a loose group who, in the last gasps of Saturday morning office hours in Central London in 1966, used to get together afterwards at Marylebone for the 14.38 on the Great Central line, with a Black 5, as far as Leicester, and turn round to come back, with about 5 hours overall of steam haulage. He lived in Harrow so got off there on the return.

I was both surprised and impressed.

 

[46223]

Did I once hear about the existence of a '2105 Club*', populated by cranks who regularly travelled on the Belfast Boat Express for at least part of its route (Manchester to Preston?) just to enjoy the haulage - presumably while it was a last outpost of steam?

(* 21:05 being the train's longstanding departure time from Manchester Victoria.)

The steam hauled 'Belfast Boat Express' departed Manchester Victoria at 20-55 not 21-05.
Yes, there was, and still is, a '20-55 Club'!

 

[Poolie]

Depends on what you mean 'exactly' by 'express

Surely a working that had the express lamps on the buffer beams?

 

[Springs Branch]

The steam hauled 'Belfast Boat Express' departed Manchester Victoria at 20-55 not 21-05.
Yes, there was, and still is, a '20-55 Club'!

Ah yes - now I remember it was the 20-55 Club.

Immediately after posting, I knew 21-05 didn't look right. I wonder if the Boat Train was accelerated by 10 minutes after dieselisation, when Class 25 "super power" was employed?

 

[Harvester]

Railway Magazine July 1975 had a short article Heysham's last boat trains.

It says that the up Belfast Boat Express on 6 May 1968 was BR's last steam hauled named train. There is a picture at Preston and the loco is 45025. However, Railway Observer July 1968 says that the last working was on the morning of Sunday 5 May 1968, which makes more sense, because 6 May 1968 was a Monday (see below). Railway Observer July 1968 agrees that 45342 on Saturday 4 May 1968 was the last steam hauled down working.

I wonder if it was ever steam hauled at a later date, because of possible diesel failures, between May 5th and August 3rd 1968?

 

[furnessvale]

Surely a working that had the express lamps on the buffer beams?

I will not name names, but I know a then very junior passed cleaner who, in the 1950s, would nip to the front of the loco on a Preston-Southport service and change the lamps to "express" because it would omit the next stop!

Does that count?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Surely a working that had the express lamps on the buffer beams?

That's exactly what I would say (and I think strongly implied above) but - as this thread has shown - that's not everyone's criterion.

I wonder if it was ever steam hauled at a later date, because of possible diesel failures, between May 5th and August 3rd 1968?

The Manchester division sheds closed to steam in early July (or was it late June?), whatever, past that date it would not have been steam, so in effect it 'might just' have been steam for only eight weeks or so past the last official steam date. But there was so much enthusiast interest at the time that I'm sure any return to steam for the BBE, even if for just the Morecambe-Heysham bit, would have been well recorded and hailed as the beginning of a renaissance for steam or some such.

Ah yes - now I remember it was the 20-55 Club.

Immediately after posting, I knew 21-05 didn't look right. I wonder if the Boat Train was accelerated by 10 minutes after dieselisation, when Class 25 "super power" was employed?

Well, I can't speak for the immediate period after May 68, as I didn't see the train, but I strongly suspect that it was a Cl 40 turn - as it was in April 1970 when I travelled on it. I can't remember many regular Cl 25-hauled trains in the area in 1968, apart from the Liverpool-Preston portions of the Liverpool/Manchester - Glasgow/Edinburghs when I was up there that summer.

 

[Springs Branch]

I wonder if it was ever steam hauled at a later date, because of possible diesel failures, between May 5th and August 3rd 1968?

The Manchester division sheds closed to steam in early July (or was it late June?), whatever, past that date it would not have been steam, so in effect it 'might just' have been steam for only eight weeks or so past the last official steam date. But there was so much enthusiast interest at the time that I'm sure any return to steam for the BBE, even if for just the Morecambe-Heysham bit, would have been well recorded and hailed as the beginning of a renaissance for steam or some such.

The Black 5s reported as involved in the last steam-hauled Belfast Boat Expresses (45025 & 45342) were both based at Carnforth MPD right up until the end of steam. Plus, the 1967 Working Timetable for the Morecambe/Heysham branch shows light engines running to or from Carnforth MPD late evening and early mornings in association with the Down and Up BBE. It seems the steam-hauled BBE was a Carnforth rather than Manchester area turn.

So it was possible that a steam loco could have turned out in the three months between May & August 1968 in the event of a failure on the northern part of the route. But very unlikely to have ever happened - as @70014IronDuke says, given the sentiment at the time even a short run such as Morecambe/Heysham would have been observed, reported and widely communicated.

Well, I can't speak for the immediate period after May 68, as I didn't see the train, but I strongly suspect that it was a Cl 40 turn - as it was in April 1970 when I travelled on it.

The Working Timetables from May 1968 onwards (after switch to diesel) show the BBE was scheduled to Timing Load D455. According to the accompanying table in the WTT, this would have allowed up to 9 Mk.1 coaches with Class 40 haulage, but only 6 coaches with a Class 25 up front. (up to 13x Mk.1 if a Class 47 used).

I'm pretty sure the BBE loaded to more than six coaches including vans (apparently BR's Heysham/Belfast route carried heavy parcels and mail traffic), hence very likely normally booked for Class 40 working (even though the last train connecting with a Belfast sailing used 25 082)

 

[Magdalia]

The Black 5s reported as involved in the last steam-hauled Belfast Boat Expresses (45025 & 45342) were both based at Carnforth MPD right up until the end of steam.

June 1968 Railway Observer, referring to events in April, says that the Belfast Boat Express, on weekdays at least, has been the preserve of 45025 (10A).

July 1968 issue then says that 45435 was in charge from 28 April to 1 May, when it failed on Patricroft shed prior to the evening working. 44735 took the ecs into Exchange station but 44899 worked the train. 45342 was then used on the next 3 days.

So I think you are right that it was probably booked for a Carnforth loco.

I'm pretty sure the BBE loaded to more than six coaches including vans (apparently BR's Heysham/Belfast route carried heavy parcels and mail traffic), hence very likely normally booked for Class 40 working (even though the last train connecting with a Belfast sailing used 25 082

The picture in Railway Magazine July 1975, of the Sunday 6 April 1975 up train, only has passenger coaches and looks to be 4 or 5 coaches. It is hard to tell how many because of clouds of steam! But Saturday night/Sunday morning may not have conveyed mail and parcels. Possibly the train was class 40 on weekdays for the mail and parcels but class 25 Saturday night/Sunday morning?

 

[Springs Branch]

The picture in Railway Magazine July 1975, of the Sunday 6 April 1975 up train, only has passenger coaches and looks to be 4 or 5 coaches.

I became quite familiar, off and on, with the Belfast Boat Express in its final few years with steam - although way too young to be in the 20-55 Club, or even by the lineside at that time of day.

I contributed to an "Interest in the Railways - where did it start?" thread with this post from 2016. . .

As a youngster during the 1960s, in the summer school holidays I usually went to stay with an uncle and aunt who had a house about half-a-mile across open fields from the railway line between Lostock Jn and Horwich. Most nights at bedtime, the routine was I would sit by the dining room window to watch the "Boat Train" passing, then off to bed with no further arguments. This was the Manchester Victoria - Heysham Belfast Boat Express, which became one of the last steam-hauled passenger expresses on BR.

I didn't know much about railways, but seeing that train each evening in the summer twilight, steaming hard uphill from Lostock Jn, followed by its train of warmly-lit carriages made an impression which must have primed my interest.

Memory is fallible, but I'm sure the BBE loaded to more than 4 or 5 coaches then, and presumably also into its first few years with diesels.

As I understand it, the demise of the BBE - along with the Sealink ferry to Belfast, The Ulster Express from Euston and other connecting boat trains from Crewe & Birmingham, or Leeds via Wennington - came about because of the 1970s Troubles. The Troubles weren't necessarily a thing to discourage visitors and tourists from Northern Ireland in 1968, but by 1975 they very much were.

The decline and imminent fall of BR's Heysham - Belfast ferry service was debated in the House of Commons on 6 March 1975 . . .

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1975-03-06/debates/df6c133a-0be0-482c-9c1b-dc9c4092a277/Heysham-BelfastFerryService

Mr. Robert J. Bradford
(Belfast, South)
. . . . First, there has been a calculated commitment to the removal of this sea link over a number of years. In other words, a hole has deliberately been made in the base of a bucket and that bucket has been discarded because it cannot hold water. The express parcels service ceased using the Heysham-Belfast service, and its custom was transferred to the Stranraer-Larne service in October 1973. In that year, however, the Belfast-Heysham service was noted for its excellent handling of that parcels service. Why then was the custom transferred?

Included in the debate were several contributions from the redoubtable MP for Antrim North, the Rev. Ian Paisley, including . . .

Rev. Ian Paisley
(Antrim, North)
Is my hon. Friend aware that the transport users' consultative committee for the Western Region laid evidence before the inquiry that the brochure printed by British Rail had already omitted the Belfast-Heysham link, so that tourists wanting to use the route this year cannot even know that it exists?

So it's plausible the dieselised BBE began as a train of normal 'express' length in 1968, requiring a Class 40, but custom had declined by 1975 such that 4 or 5 coaches and a Type 2 would do.

 

[70014IronDuke]

June 1968 Railway Observer, referring to events in April, says that the Belfast Boat Express, on weekdays at least, has been the preserve of 45025 (10A).

July 1968 issue then says that 45435 was in charge from 28 April to 1 May, when it failed on Patricroft shed prior to the evening working. 44735 took the ecs into Exchange station but 44899 worked the train. 45342 was then used on the next 3 days.

So I think you are right that it was probably booked for a Carnforth loco.

This has reminded me of a friend, who was surely in the 20.55 Club, who held one Carnforth driver in hero worship for his runs on the BBE - so yes, it was surely a Carnforth crew and loco.

So it's plausible the dieselised BBE began as a train of normal 'express' length in 1968, requiring a Class 40, but custom had declined by 1975 such that 4 or 5 coaches and a Type 2 would do.

This is what I suspect happened. I only wanted to stress that it was hauled by a Class 40 in 1970 in order to avoid the impression that it went from steam to regular Class 25 haulage in 1968.

I would not question it being a Class 25 turn in later years, say post 1971, as I don't think I was anywhere near it by then.