The last thing to electrify should be where?

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Gathursty, 26 May 2015.

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  1. Gathursty

    Gathursty Established Member

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    To balance against the threads which ask about the next thing to get juice.

    I'd prefer the Cornish Branches, in particular Looe, to avoid any overheads for as long as possible. Gantries would spoil the setting. Third rail would be fine however.
     
  2. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    Got to be Inverness- Kyle/Thurso.

    Both for scenic and cost reasons.

    I'd also be a bit disappointed if they did the S&C.
     
  3. Rapidash

    Rapidash Member

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    Stourbridge?

    I'd imagine there's a few North East and Anglia lines that probably will never see a spark in the next millennia. When your stations have more sheep than passengers, I doubt it's worth it.
     
  4. GRALISTAIR

    GRALISTAIR Established Member

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    I would have to agree
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Wire the lot, IMO. It would be so much better if the UK could reduce, or nearly eliminate its dependency on oil entirely. Electric railways, electric buses and electric trams all round, and a massive building programme of modern nuclear power stations, would be my ideal. Works for the Swiss!

    We could always wire branches using more attractive tram-style catenary if the standard type look too ugly. Indeed, for many standalone branches like the Cornish ones, operating using Metrolink-style high floor LRVs might be a good idea.

    I'm aware cost will slow such a programme down, but the only answer to me to "what should we wire last" is "what is least cost-effective to wire". I wouldn't say to be overly precious about it.
     
    Last edited: 26 May 2015
  6. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    At the moment the long term rolling stock strategy presumes some rural lines will never be electrified. Presumably that's due to the very high cost of overhead electrics meaning other options (including EMUs with batteries) will provide better value for money.
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Battery EMUs may indeed be a good option on some branches. But I certainly think national policy should be towards stopping wasting a precious commodity like oil by setting fire to it, and reducing heavily our dependence on the politically unstable countries that produce most of it.
     
  8. JamesRowden

    JamesRowden Established Member

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    I think that the introduction of battery EMUs is a form of electrification.

    I expect that the last routes to be electrified have not been built yet. ;)
     
  9. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    If the OLE could be designed to minimise visual impact/with aesthetics in mind (i.e. Corten masts, as used in Denmark (see 2nd image)), it is still a better option than 3rd Rail, as its proximity to the sea and the estuary would make the juice rail more vulnerable to attack. If it took off as a viable source of power, batteries would be perfect for the branch, recharging at Liskeard and Looe.

    As above, more scenically minded OLE could work really well, for both of these routes. An example is this one just outside Prague (see 1st image).
     

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  10. Iskra

    Iskra Established Member

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    I think both of those are quite ugly.

    I did realise after I posted that the Swiss and Italians seem to do ok with electrification through nice areas so it isn't an insurmountable problem. Single lines always seem to come out looking ok from electrification, it's the big gantries necessary for double track that seem to ruin it as in the pictures above. I actually think our current electrified mainlines look better than the two examples you've given.
     
  11. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    Whoops...
    But, as you say, for single lines, such as the Cornish Branches and the FNL, OLE wouldn't be much of a problem.
    Some of the designs seen on here would do really well on scenic routes, such as the S&C... http://www.ribacompetitions.com/ols/entries.html
     
  12. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

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    I'd say East Grinstead, but it's already electrified.
     
  13. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    But then you could say the same about the Voyagers even though they use diesel to produce electricity.
     
  14. JamesRowden

    JamesRowden Established Member

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    Energy is inserted into Battery trains in the form of electricity and can be done so while the train is in service. Energy is inserted into Voyagers using a fuel pump at a depot.
     
    Last edited: 26 May 2015
  15. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    But it's possible the electricity inserted in to battery trains has been created by an oil power station which, in that case, would mean the difference between a Voyager and a battery powered train is where the oil is converted to electricity.
     
  16. cool110

    cool110 Member

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    So we should put nuclear reactors on board trains, then we'll know that no oil is being burnt.
     
  17. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The UK's last oil power station shut down nearly two months ago.
     
  18. QueensCurve

    QueensCurve Established Member

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    Perhaps we should cross that bridge when we come to it.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    While I would love to wire the lot a la Suisse, their decision in 1913 reflected their need from a national security perspective to be independent of imported fuel and the abundance of home-grown HEP.

    In Britain we are unlikely to reach a point where the infrastructure costs can be justified for lightly trafficked lines.

    Personally, I think that the wires only enhance the appearance of a line and their intrusion in Switzerland does little to detract from the scenery.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    A bit of a red herring since the significance of electrification is that you avoid the need to carry around the fuel or the energy converters.
     
  19. Joseph_Locke

    Joseph_Locke Established Member

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    The Strand Road Branch in Preston? :D
     
  20. JamesRowden

    JamesRowden Established Member

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    The potential benefits of battery trains match exactly those weight saving benefits that you have attributed to electrification, plus electrification can also raise energy efficiency.

    Some energy is simply converted OHLE/3rdR->Train->Battery->Train->Load rather than only OHLE/3rdR->Train->Load.

    Battery trains won't save as much per train, but they also don't require as much 3rd rail and/or wiring. It is simply a lower performance but with cheaper capital costs version of electrification.
     
  21. Trog

    Trog Established Member

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    The Weymouth Quay branch might be quite amusing at 25Kv.

    Health and Safety would probably rule out third rail as being a tripping hazard.
     
    Last edited: 26 May 2015
  22. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    Stourbridge Town branch anyone?
     
  23. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    But not because of the electrocution risk :lol:
     
  24. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    3rd rail would be ruled out on it being foul of the roadway, some of the branch runs in the middle of the road
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I personally think it would be a very good thing for our national security if we were to become fully independent of Middle Eastern and American oil.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    If you wired the main lines through Junction you might as well wire it, it would cost very little. Windermere is being done on that basis. Short single track branches with no junctions are easy and relatively cheap to wire.
     
  26. superalbs

    superalbs Member

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    What stock would then be used? Are there even any 1 car EMUs?
     
  27. Trog

    Trog Established Member

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    Sorry I forgot to put in the :D so people would realise I was not quite serious.
     
  28. GRALISTAIR

    GRALISTAIR Established Member

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    Hear, hear :D
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Any scope for extending the platform and running through services to Brum using a 319, 350, 323 or similar?

    But what is certainly the case is that there is no particular shortage of EMUs, so using a bog-standard ex-Sarfeast 4-car EMU like a 319 would be no more a waste than using the same to St Albans.
     
  30. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    The 442s will be redundant soon. Just couple enough of them end-to-end and you've got a covered walking route into town. No need for any actual electrification then! :lol:
     
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