The Leamside line

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . the Victoria Bridge. The only problem with routing Metro trains over the bridge would be that it would rule out any possibility of the Leamside being electrified, since you couldn't have 2 different overhead power systems on the one bridge.

You've obviously forgotten THIS recent post (and subsequent) from the Traction & Rolling Stock forum!

 

[Bish Boy]

A Bishop Auckland to Sunderland via Washington train service would require two reversals; first at Darlington and again at Pelaw or Heworth (which would be especially inconvenient for pathing it), unless as PinzaC55 says you reopened the lines north west from Bishop to the Leamside, which is surely beyond hope. And it would also take up capacity on the ECML from Ferryhill to Darlington, although I think that this would be a likely effect of any reinstated Leamside line passenger service. Sorry Bish Boy, I'm not trying to pick holes in your idea, it would be good to see Bishop Auckland connected to places "further up".

If the northern curve was reinstated at North Road onto the ECML you could then run north and up true maybe sunderland would be a little to much especially with the reversal. and yes overcrowding the already busy ECML but i can dream go BISH WOO lol

 

[PinzaC55]

You've obviously forgotten THIS recent post (and subsequent) from the Traction & Rolling Stock forum!

Well that post was posted before I started posting on this forum so that's my excuse.
One guy there said something like convert the Metro to 25 KV (!) but as we all (or most of us) know it isn't like that.AC units require step down transformers and so on and of course the insulators on the OHL aren't beefy enough for 25KV.
But a diesel Leamside line would be nice anyway
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If the northern curve was reinstated at North Road onto the ECML you could then run north and up true maybe sunderland would be a little to much especially with the reversal. and yes overcrowding the already busy ECML but i can dream go BISH WOO lol

You could reopen Bish - Spennymoor - Ferryill with a new curve at Tursdale to take it down to Leamside? (only joking!)

 

[AutoKratz]

I've just been looking at some photos of the Leamside Line on flickr (flickr.com/urbanplanner)

Does anybody know what the pair of thin silver cables are for along either rail?

 

[142094]

IIRC they are something to do with track circuits and better connections.

 

[TomBoyRacer]

IIRC they are something to do with track circuits and better connections.

It is to ensure continutuity of the track circuit through the joint

 

[142094]

It is to ensure continutuity of the track circuit through the joint

Thought I had remembered it from somewhere, always good to have someone else verify it.

 

[Ploughman]

Bonding wires.

More to the point though.
Where are the fishplates?
Have they been nicked or borrowed by the local pw men to replace some others elsewhere?

 

[PinzaC55]

If the photo is near Penshaw they may have been removed by the disgruntled ex Railtrack guy who nicked the track there?

 

[DarloRich]

Bonding wires.

More to the point though.
Where are the fishplates?
Have they been nicked or borrowed by the local pw men to replace some others elsewhere?

they have been pinched - along with lots of other useful stuff including about 2 miles of rail!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To me the Leamside line would be used as a diversionary route for ECML emergencies, but more importantly as a heavy freight route, coupled with an upgrade of the Ferryhill-Stillington-Eaglescliffe-Northallerton route. This would allow any freight form Tyne Dock (and oils from Jarrow) to access the four track section of the ECML south of Northalelrton towards York without blocking up the (basically) two track Newcastle-Northallerton section. You would need some work on the junctions at Pelaw, perhaps a new cord from the down Sunderland to the up Leamside. An added benefit would be to take freight traffic off the coast route, allowing for more passenger trains. It may also be possible to route some of the fright form further north on the ECML this way to increase passenger paths south of Newcastle. It has also stuck me as strange that this line runs very close to the Nissan plant, yet Nissan send nothing out by rail, not even to the nearby Port of Tyne! Perhaps this could be addressed at the same time. There is also a massive Asda distribution centre right next door. Again an opportunity for a service perhaps.

Passenger wise (southern end) you could run a Newcastle -Middlesbrough (or Stockton) service via this route, adding in new stations at say sedgefield and Ferryhill. Although i would suggest that a more sensible option would be a Nexus metro style service from Newcastle to Fencehouses with stations at say Penshaw, Washington and Ulsworth. There are suggestions for a parkway style station at Belmont near Durham and a new station at Gateshead East but both seems unrealistic ( unless NR reopen the whole line to passengers)

However, I cant see a reopening anytime soon (which saddens me immensely) for the following reasons:

1) The condition of Victoria Viaduct between Penshaw and Washington
2) reinstallation of signalling infrastructure
3) Condition/replacement of track infrastructure (that which has not been nicked!)
4) Finance (There is a report I have seen from around 2007/2008 by the old TWPE that costed Leamside/Stillington upgrade at something like £65-85m!)

In fact I can see NR taking the track assets out and simply protecting the route from development. Unfortunately there won’t be a reopening any time soon!

 

[142094]

£65-85m really isn't that much compared to what they are spending on other things, especially for what you get as well. Although I bet this amount is horribly out of date, and of course will cost a lot more in the future due to inflation.

 

[DarloRich]

I dont think anyone has the money. I also think you have to do Stillington at the same time to get any real benefit.

Iweould love to see it open , but it just isnt gooing to happen anytime soon.

 

[142094]

I dont think anyone has the money. I also think you have to do Stillington at the same time to get any real benefit.

Iweould love to see it open , but it just isnt gooing to happen anytime soon.

The money is there somewhere, just being spent on something else. Such as overseas aid...but we'll not go into that!

 

[lancastrian]

£65-85m really isn't that much compared to what they are spending on other things, especially for what you get as well. Although I bet this amount is horribly out of date, and of course will cost a lot more in the future due to inflation.

Yes I agree that this does sound a lot of money, but it is about half the ammount that has beed wasted in the Cambridgeshire Guided Busway. The money wasted on that if spent on renewing the Railway between Cambridge to St Ives/Huntingdon and also reinstate the Leamside line.

Yet another example of the DFT(daft buggers) having no realisticunderstanding of the rail transport needs of this Country.

 

[PinzaC55]

DarloRich said "However, I cant see a reopening anytime soon (which saddens me immensely) for the following reasons:

1) The condition of Victoria Viaduct between Penshaw and Washington

Just curious to know where you get this from? I've never heard of any problems with this bridge. The only reason why it was singled in about 1980 was because it had unusually tight clearances.

 

[DarloRich]

DarloRich said "However, I cant see a reopening anytime soon (which saddens me immensely) for the following reasons:

1) The condition of Victoria Viaduct between Penshaw and Washington

Just curious to know where you get this from? I've never heard of any problems with this bridge. The only reason why it was singled in about 1980 was because it had unusually tight clearances.

Nothing concrete (pardon the pun) just a consideration of a risk factor. I think it is mentioned in the propsal papers somewhere as a risk of cost overrun becuase of the lack of detailed maintenace over recent years ( ie enougth done to keep it standing.)

Lancastrian - Agreed Living as i do down in MK that has been all over the news!

142094 - Agreed - until recenlty i always defended the overseas aid budget and thought it allowed us to do useful work ( and i still do, deep down) but IF things are as bad as the government suggest the money should be spent at home.

 

[sprinterguy]

The longer the Leamside line is closed the less reason there is for leaving the track in place. A reopening scheme should either be decided on, or the track removed, as by this point most of the track that remains must surely be unusable for the passage of trains following 20 years of deterioration. All that Network Rail are achieving by leaving it in place is providing a tidy little line of work and income for local scrap salvagers.

 

[142094]

Just wondering how much the track on the line would be sold for a scrap? Could knock a few thousand of the cost of replacing it!

 

[sprinterguy]

Just wondering how much the track on the line would be sold for a scrap? Could knock a few thousand of the cost of replacing it!

Yeah there's an idea: There's a good few miles of twin track railway available there: And in a lot of places the work is already half done, as the locals have kindly removed all the fishplates, pandrol clips and track chairs!

 

[PinzaC55]

Nothing concrete (pardon the pun) just a consideration of a risk factor. I think it is mentioned in the propsal papers somewhere as a risk of cost overrun becuase of the lack of detailed maintenace over recent years ( ie enougth done to keep it standing.)

Lancastrian - Agreed Living as i do down in MK that has been all over the news!

142094 - Agreed - until recenlty i always defended the overseas aid budget and thought it allowed us to do useful work ( and i still do, deep down) but IF things are as bad as the government suggest the money should be spent at home.

The Victoria Bridge is a Listed structure so I would expect it to attract extra funding were it to be returned to operational use. I've got to admit though that, as nice as it would be to see trains running there, it would be awful to see it defaced with OHLE equipment.

 

[142094]

Since it is a listed structure, who at present picks up the tab for maintenance?

 

[DarloRich]

NR - but i think maintenance changes depending on usage. I think the level at present is to make sure it stays up and bits dont fall on people.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Since it is a listed structure, who at present picks up the tab for maintenance?

I would expect that to be British Rail Board (Residuary) Ltd (BRBR) who are responsible for the maintenance of all structures associated with closed railway lines, whether they have a listing status or not.
However, I've just done a quick search through the BRBR database and didn't notice it there, which leaves only 2 likely alternatives, either it has been sold already (very unlikely) or else, it remains within the jurisdiction of Network Rail (which seems more probable given the references to it in the RUS).

 

[142094]

See what you mean there, would need more money to bring it up to standard. However it is good that it hasn't been left to go to ruin, no doubt if it hadn't been listed it would have either been left to rot or demolished long ago. I'm just imagining all the different lines that could be open/reopened only if some of the viaducts had been maintained.

 

[DarloRich]

I would expect that to be British Rail Board (Residuary) Ltd (BRBR) who are responsible for the maintenance of all structures associated with closed railway lines, whether they have a listing status or not.
However, I've just done a quick search through the BRBR database and didn't notice it there, which leaves only 2 likely alternatives, either it has been sold already (very unlikely) or else, it remains within the jurisdiction of Network Rail (which seems more probable given the references to it in the RUS).

It isnt closed it is "mothballed" so it is NR

 

[PinzaC55]

It's definitely NR. There was,even in the 1990's, a plate on the Penshaw North road overbridge identifying it as a Railtrack owned structure and of course Railtrack wasn't spawned until 5 years after the line closed.
The Bridge is wrongly mentioned as "Victoria Viaduct" on Wikipedia and it says that it was extensively repaired and refurbished in 1989-90! Good old British Rail - the old stories about how the painters would come round just before a line closed are so true!

 

[DarloRich]

it is called Victoria Viaduct in my Quail!

 

[PinzaC55]

it is called Victoria Viaduct in my Quail!

Quail is wrong.The North Eastern Railway never referred to "Viaducts" only "Bridges". That's why the Royal Border Bridge, King Edward Bridge and the Queen Alexandra Bridge (to name just 3) are all Bridges although they are obviously Viaducts to the layman.
I used to have an early coloured lithograph of the bridge and it called it a bridge.

 

[DarloRich]

I know - that is the point i was making. It is wrong in all of the track diagrams etc

 

[AutoKratz]

Apparently the name was changed to 'viaduct' in 1959.


I have just been reading the full report on the re-opening of Leamside by AECOM Faber Maunsell and saw some very interesting figures.

* A Tyne to Tees half-hourly commuter service would have a passenger patronage level of over 700,000 per annum with 90,000 of those utilising Park and Ride facilities at Washington and Durham (Belmont).

* Passenger demand would be great enough to produce a farebox revenue of over £2,000,000 per year assuming the maximum single fare is capped at £11.50.

Sounds like a good case to re-open to me especially with the wider economic benefits in addition