The Menace Of Class 150 Rail Travel

[ed1971]

I think there is some rose tinted glasses being wearing with some of you saying a pacer is better than a 150.

The main advantage of a pacer I can think of, is the environment is much lighter with the larger window to metal ratio they have.
The main comparative disadvantage of pacers compared to sprinters is that they have less seats, there is no separate cab door for opening/closing doors, the doors themselves are relatively slow to open and cause internal space to be eaten up in opening/closing them.
Others have said they are more reliable, and I believe they also have better acceleration.
150s are simply better than pacers in most ways.
I]

The Class 141s had separate crew slam doors like the 150/1s, but they were abandoned on the 142 to make best use of space.

 

[Chris217]

I like this thread lol.

Coming from Cardiff
I hated the 150s as they replaced our
beloved class 116 DMU's (known locally as the C3's)
But worse was to come with the arrival of the horrid class 155s.
Fast forward 30odd years and living in Liverpool I find I am still not a fan of the 150s,although I have grown very fond of the Pacers since I moved up in 1989.
As for 150s in general,the Northern ones are not the best.
That award goes to the ATW/TfW ones although I still ain't a fan!
Just a fan of ATW as it were,although when everything gets painted red and white(if they ever do),then I will probably dislike them even more.
Credit where it's due though the Arriva refurbs are by far the best for this class
of all operators.
Still need about 6 150s for haulage.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I think the 150s are marginally better than Pacers, although they are both poor trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the 150s are marginally better than Pacers, although they are both poor trains.

I think they both have advantages and disadvantages, but are both pretty mediocre.

 

[Chris217]

I think they both have advantages and disadvantages, but are both pretty mediocre.

Two of the most talked about classes on here.
I try not to be too negative regarding these
as they are just trains.
Both get you to work and back each day.
They are both part of BR history and should be recognized for that at least.
I do prefer Pacers though as they do have their unique character.
On preservation,how likely would it be for heritage lines to take on Pacers?
The bigger question in a few years time would be how likely would heritage lines take on 150s?
To me,150s don't offer the same appeal.

 

[LMS 4F]

Two of the most talked about classes on here.
I try not to be too negative regarding these
as they are just trains.
Both get you to work and back each day.
They are both part of BR history and should be recognized for that at least.
I do prefer Pacers though as they do have their unique character.
On preservation,how likely would it be for heritage lines to take on Pacers?
The bigger question in a few years time would be how likely would heritage lines take on 150s?
To me,150s don't offer the same appeal.

Surely the question for any preserved line would be will anyone want to ride on these unit ? Given the bad publicity for Pacers over the years in areas where they have been used I can't see people rushing to pay the fares asked on preserved lines to travel on a Pacer.
Perhaps they could have one on somewhere like the Bluebell line just to show people from that area how lucky they have been to avoid them.

 

[centraltrains]

Surely the question for any preserved line would be will anyone want to ride on these unit ? Given the bad publicity for Pacers over the years in areas where they have been used I can't see people rushing to pay the fares asked on preserved lines to travel on a Pacer.
Perhaps they could have one on somewhere like the Bluebell line just to show people from that area how lucky they have been to avoid them.

Galas and enthusiast groups.

 

[xotGD]

Galas and enthusiast groups.

There can't be many who enthuse over a Pacer or a 150.

A commuter / community service on a heritage line perhaps, but definitely not as a tourist attraction or something for the cranks.

 

[Jozhua]

I definitely think quite a few issues could be solved with a decent internal refurb.

Ripping out those awful low airline seats with literally no legroom would be a good start, cleaning up the cabin, adding new flooring, heating and having less 80's looking luggage racks! Some bog-standard 2+2 seats like in the class 156, a general clean up and some new lighting would probably bring the 150's up to scratch for the next decade to come.

 

[ed1971]

I definitely think quite a few issues could be solved with a decent internal refurb.

Ripping out those awful low airline seats with literally no legroom would be a good start, cleaning up the cabin, adding new flooring, heating and having less 80's looking luggage racks! Some bog-standard 2+2 seats like in the class 156, a general clean up and some new lighting would probably bring the 150's up to scratch for the next decade to come.

One of the biggest issues is the noisy engines. Later classes using the same engine types have better sound insulation. I went on a Perkins engined 158 this week. Whilst interior engine noise levels are low on any 158, the Perkins was still noticeably quieter. 150s could do with more modern quieter engines, but it probably is not worth spending so much on them as they are approaching 33-35 years of age.

 

[railfan100]

These units are passed it, all indications are that BR only expected to have them in front line service for 30 years, they had every intention of them being gone by now, they were built on the cheap, tread brakes instead of disk, the lower output Cummins offering compared to other options, most parts of the body not galvanised. They were a budget DMU when being designed, quite amazing that a railway system that has significant investment is still using such old expired and technology based obsolete and polluting stock.

 

[matacaster]

My memory may be failing me, but I seem to remember that the Class 47 with around 7 coaches on Newcastle -> Liverpool every 2 hours or so was replaced initially by hourly? 150's. The result at Leeds can easily be imagined.

 

[bramling]

There can't be many who enthuse over a Pacer or a 150.

A commuter / community service on a heritage line perhaps, but definitely not as a tourist attraction or something for the cranks.

I must admit I find it hard to envisage 150s finding favour on heritage lines. They lack the forward view and droplight windows which are popular on first-generation DMUs, and although they can sound impressive this is only really when going full pelt. A Pacer might have a bit more quirky appeal, especially as they have decent window alignment.

 

[Parallel]

I have no problems with 150s. To be honest, GWR’s 150s are probably the best out of the bunch post refurbishment. However that was also helped by the refurbishment under Wessex Trains and FGW who arranged replacement of the seats (to comfortable 2+2 Chapman seating) lighting (original fittings removed and new used with diffuser) and claustrophobic partition by the doors (glass screens). No problem spending 1.5 - 2hrs on those!

 

[ed1971]

Deleted.

 

[ed1971]

My memory may be failing me, but I seem to remember that the Class 47 with around 7 coaches on Newcastle -> Liverpool every 2 hours or so was replaced initially by hourly? 150's. The result at Leeds can easily be imagined.

You are correct. I travelled from Manchester Vic to Huddersfield on a single 150/2 in August 1988. The return journey was running late and it was headed by a Class 31. Loco hauled DMU substitutes were commonplace at the time, as BR faced the Pacer gearbox failure epidemic.

 

[ed1971]

I must admit I find it hard to envisage 150s finding favour on heritage lines. They lack the forward view and droplight windows which are popular on first-generation DMUs, and although they can sound impressive this is only really when going full pelt. A Pacer might have a bit more quirky appeal, especially as they have decent window alignment.

I miss the forward view of the old DMUs. They also were more interesting in the aural department as well.

 

[Chris217]

You are correct. I travelled from Manchester Vic to Huddersfield on a single 150/2 in August 1988. The return journey was running late and it was headed by a Class 31. Loco hauled DMU substitutes were commonplace at the time, as BR faced the Pacer gearbox failure epidemic.

I bet you the ride behind the 31 was far more interesting.

 

[ed1971]

It was, but slow. Certainly a lot more capacity too!

 

[Dan15812]

Overall a Pacer beats a 150 anyday!
However, a referbished GWR 150/2 is a vast improvement from other experiences I've had with these units. Still not acceptable for a Cardiff - Portsmouth service. I'm so thankful SWR don't use 150's

 

[centraltrains]

There can't be many who enthuse over a Pacer or a 150.

A commuter / community service on a heritage line perhaps, but definitely not as a tourist attraction or something for the cranks.

I think people tend to enthuse over the trains which are around when they grow up, and as population ages and more of those have childhood memories they may wish to re-live with 150s.
Class 150 restoration would certainly be the only railway heritage project I would ever donate to [or general efforts for noughties used MUs]. I quite frankly would be shocked if not 1 150 made it to a heritage line. I would have thought SVR semi-likely given it's proximity to a route which use to be predominantly 150s (with no 142s surrounding) and already has a fair diesel operation.

 

[delticdave]

They are similar but I don't mind 319s. They don't have a noisy 1960s marine engine under the floor, come in 4 fixed carriages, so plenty of room and (apart from the wheel adhesion issue) are pretty fast units. With a 150 there are the double negatives of the noisy engine and claustrophobic interior.

Marine engine, surely not so? The Cummins NT855R4 is probably best described as a truck or bus engine.

 

[xotGD]

I think people tend to enthuse over the trains which are around when they grow up, and as population ages and more of those have childhood memories they may wish to re-live with 150s.
Class 150 restoration would certainly be the only railway heritage project I would ever donate to [or general efforts for noughties used MUs]. I quite frankly would be shocked if not 1 150 made it to a heritage line. I would have thought SVR semi-likely given it's proximity to a route which use to be predominantly 150s (with no 142s surrounding) and already has a fair diesel operation.

The NRM ought to get a 150, as an historical artifact of how poor local trains were in the late 20th/early 21st century. But that is different to running one on a heritage line as a means of enticing visitors to part with their cash.

If a group want to get hold of one, find a home for it and keep it in working order then good luck to them, but I can't see the host line being very keen to operate it on their regular services.

 

[Fisherman80]

On Saturday I was hoping for a 144 to take me home from Morecambe to Bingley on the 2007 service. Unfortunately 150130 was to be my home for the next 117 minutes. It was quiet but you just cannot find a decent seat with reasonable legroom (apart from the bays) that you have a good view from.

 

[Jozhua]

Anyone know if there is replacement on the horizon for the 150's?

They're older than the 319's and even those seem to be looking like they'll be replaced by 2021/2022. I reckon they'll stay around till 2025, considering that the 195's are probably Northerns only investment for the next while, any more and we'd be spolit!

I think the 319s are superior to the 150's in many ways, so I'll be sad to see them go first. Be interesting to see what happens with the 769's, I personally have a feeling the whole project will be abandoned at this point.

 

[ashkeba]

I miss the forward view of the old DMUs. They also were more interesting in the aural department as well.

Why don't Pacers or Sprinters have forward views? Few modern trains seem to. The ICE 3 in Germany being one of the few.

 

[prod_pep]

The following is just my opinion: I've never liked the Class 150s, but they are somewhat better than Pacers. Northern's 150s have been internally grim for years, not helped by drab lighting, uncomfortable seating and cramped layout, all of which makes them very unpleasant to travel in. I've been on a couple of the refurbished examples and although much fresher with vastly improved lighting, they are still average at best. The refurbished Welsh 150/2s are about as good as these units are going to get, but I'd still dread one on a Marches working. A ride on one from Cardiff to Chepstow a couple of years back was more than enough.

The interior layout feels very dated on 150s, perhaps even more so than the Pacers. It's common to many EMUs of similar vintage: 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 456 before refurbishment, etc.. I don't like any of these classes due to their interiors and seating, which feel as if built 'on the cheap'. There are exceptions: the SWR 455/456s have had a nice refurbishment and the 319/2s are marginally better than the other sub-classes. The older PEP-derived EMUs, even the 314/315s with original seating, feel much less dated internally than these Mark 3-derived units in my view.

Frankly, the 150s are poor units, showing their age and the sooner they go, the better. I can't believe I'm saying this, but as an enthusiast part of me will miss the 142s more, terrible though they are, as they do have a certain je ne sais quoi.

 

[yorksrob]

On Saturday I was hoping for a 144 to take me home from Morecambe to Bingley on the 2007 service. Unfortunately 150130 was to be my home for the next 117 minutes. It was quiet but you just cannot find a decent seat with reasonable legroom (apart from the bays) that you have a good view from.

The 10:18 from Leeds on Saturday was a 150 and struggled capacity wise (people were standing quite long ways, although if they'd fancied squeezing in a centre of 3 they might have got a seat).

This service has over the past few years, usually been a 3 carriage 144, which I assume on paper has a similar seating capacity to a 150, but the 2+2 configuration of the 144 is much more suited to long journeys.

 

[js1000]

Travelled on a Pacer for the first time in a long time today. At least they were light and airy than the 150s - although they were bumpier than the 150s.

Some on here are saying another 10 years+ at least for the 150s. I honestly think their days will be numbered soon. I think Northern have called it correctly, once the Pacers are gone, the 150s are going to stick out like a sore thumb in comparison to the 158s, 170s and 195s and the questions are going to start being asked when are they next.

Assuming Northern's passenger numbers pick up on the introduction of new trains and a reduction in the subsidy as a result (just like TPE's when they got new rolling stock in mid-2000s) I expect the 150s to be replaced by cascaded or new stock as part of the a new franchise agreement in 2025. Potentially TPE to complete inter-city overhaul with new units and the Class 185 fleet to be cascaded to Northern.

 

[ed1971]

Marine engine, surely not so? The Cummins NT855R4 is probably best described as a truck or bus engine.

Data for NTA855 here: https://www.cummins.com/g-drive-engines/diesel-nt855-series .
http://www.engine-family.com/Product.asp?PId=270
Presumably 'R' suffix denotes rail application and 'M' marine use.