The new new KISS trains for Westbahn

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DanNCL

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More of them? What's wrong with the ones they've already got other than DB want them, that's the second time now they've replaced their Kiss units with near identical replacements so that the old ones can go to DB, are DB incapable of ordering their own units rather than taking Westbahn ones?
 

bahnause

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Better financing conditions. As a state-owned company, DB must put out to tender an order. For new units, several suppliers would have to be considered. However, DB wanted to get the units as soon as possible. They knew Westbahn would be the only bidder. The tender was tailor-made für den Westbahn trains.
 

Austriantrain

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More of them? What's wrong with the ones they've already got other than DB want them, that's the second time now they've replaced their Kiss units with near identical replacements so that the old ones can go to DB, are DB incapable of ordering their own units rather than taking Westbahn ones?

It’s not the second time. All units were sold to DB at the same time, but only the 4-car ones delivered immediately. The 6-car ones should go by the end of the year.

The 15 replacement sets - all 6-car - were all ordered at the same time approximately two years ago.

However, I am not sure how well they will fare this time. They want to reestablish the half-hourly service that failed last time and improve it by extending one train every two hours to Munich. However, international tourists, which used to be a quite important part of their clientele, will probably travel rarely for a long time to come, and business travel (which, however, was less important to them) will also take time to recover, if it ever recovers completely.

any photo?

Wanted to post a link but apparently you have to login to see the pictures; however, they look exactly like their last series.
 
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Giugiaro

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As a state-owned company, DB must put out to tender an order. For new units, several suppliers would have to be considered. However, DB wanted to get the units as soon as possible.

Sounds oddly familiar with how Portugal is managing its fleet expansion on the short term. Besides reviving old stock, it got 50 cars from Spain and has its eyes set in France for cab car Corails.
 

Austriantrain

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Sounds oddly familiar with how Portugal is managing its fleet expansion on the short term. Besides reviving old stock, it got 50 cars from Spain and has its eyes set in France for cab car Corails.

Not really comparable though. DB had and has a large and modern fleet. It is just that pre-COVID, passenger numbers were increasing more than expected and also that they changed strategy and focused more on expansion. And they had unforeseen problems with their IC2. So they decided if there is a good offer for modern, used rolling stock, they will take it.

Portugal, AFAIK, has not invested in modern medium- and long-distance rolling stock since the Pendolini. They really ran their system down.
 

Giugiaro

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Not really comparable though. (...) It is just that pre-COVID, passenger numbers were increasing more than expected and also that they changed strategy and focused more on expansion. And they had unforeseen problems with their IC2. (...)

Portugal, AFAIK, has not invested in modern medium- and long-distance rolling stock since the Pendolini. They really ran their system down.

Portugal has not invested in modern medium because the company was meant to be privatised over the last two decades. The government was able to privatise the cargo division of CP, but was unsuccessful in doing the same with the rolling stock maintenance division, halting the whole process.

Like in Germany, after the implementation of PART there was an (albeit expected) increase in the number of passengers that went well beyond what the railway company was able to cope with.
The rundown state of the fleet also contributed to the inevitable 2018 Railway Crisis.

Unfortunately, due to being a publicly owned company, and Portugal having some severe public tendering laws, it's extremely hard for CP to acquire new trains, much less in a timely manner (the current 22 FLIRT trains contract is still under review by the Court of Auditors).

At the moment it takes from 10 to 15 years for CP to go from reporting the set of specifications to the government, to receiving the first train.
That's pretty much 4 different legislatures, only taking a single change of political colours to put the tender in jeopardy.

The fastest, and less restricted, way for CP to expand its fleet is to buy or rent used trains at a fraction of the price, and then do the necessary modification in the company's workshops.
This way, the price of new components can be diluted in several tiny purchase orders that don't require review (and re-review) by the Court of Auditors.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I'm not sure that's a prototype. Westbahn have apparently ordered four sets from CRRC in addition to the 15 sets that they've odered from Stadler.
And the first CRRC EMU for Westbahn has apparently been demonstrated in China, according to Modern Railways (July).
 

Austriantrain

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And the first CRRC EMU for Westbahn has apparently been demonstrated in China, according to Modern Railways (July).

It seems to be a speculative build by CRRC. Apparently WESTbahn is prepared to lease 4 sets, but the intention surely is to gain ERA approval for the trains.

The proposed new timetable for WB can be run with the 15 new Stadlers.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It seems to be a speculative build by CRRC. Apparently WESTbahn is prepared to lease 4 sets, but the intention surely is to gain ERA approval for the trains.

The proposed new timetable for WB can be run with the 15 new Stadlers.
MR says the decision to lease 4x6-car EMUs from CRRC was taken in 2019, despite opposition from Westbahn shareholder SNCF.
 

Gag Halfrunt

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They built a tiny order of DMUs and EMUs for North Macedonia to show that they could build low floor multiple units for European operators.
 

Austriantrain

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They built a tiny order of DMUs and EMUs for North Macedonia to show that they could build low floor multiple units for European operators.

More importantly, they built single-Deck EMUs for Leo Express in the Czech Republic, although they are not in service yet. If they manage to get EU (ERA) approval both for these single-deck EMUs and the WESTbahn double-decks, they have a strong foothold in the market. This surely is the reason why they are prepared to build such small batches in the first place.
 

pcrail

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Beside CRRC trains, there are also locomotives for Hungary around, which were ordered by Rail Cargo Hungary. The two locomotives are already in Europe. One was at the test centre in Velim CZ, the other was with DB Systemtechnik in Minden. (see also here) They are called Bison.

Today the Port Rotterdam announced that construction of their electric shunters started at CRRC. These locomotives shall be able to run from OHE or from battery. (see here)
 

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