The North really is grim

[Barrett M95]

Where does "the north" stop and "the south" begin?

Anecdotal evidence says that in terms of inner city areas, I'd say the most grim places I've been through on a train: Sheffield, Rotherham, Wakefield are all classed as "northern". However there are more than a few similarly depressing areas of London, and I didn't venture away from the railways in any of those northern places.

Nottingham was a bit grey and worn looking last time I was there but is that "north" or "south" - back to my original question.

 

[Lampshade]

WestCoast
what is freckleton like, it used to be like warton for BAE workers

My cat's from Freckleton

 

[Class172]

My apologies, I'll rephrase it. It makes some of them sound thick.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Hey that's my hometown! It's got some lovely areas!!

Having been through Scarborough (on a grim day) there are some nice areas.

Personally I don't think I have an accent although I do occasionally blurt out words with what I call a 'farmers' accent, which is effectively the traditional dialect of Worcestershire and Wiltshire (where I was born). Northernmost Worcestershire does have a slight brummie accent. It would be interesting to find out whether I do have an accent from someone elses point of view.

Maybe we should start a thread for regional dialects/accents.

 

[Greenback]

Where does "the north" stop and "the south" begin?

Anecdotal evidence says that in terms of inner city areas, I'd say the most grim places I've been through on a train: Sheffield, Rotherham, Wakefield are all classed as "northern". However there are more than a few similarly depressing areas of London, and I didn't venture away from the railways in any of those northern places.

Nottingham was a bit grey and worn looking last time I was there but is that "north" or "south" - back to my original question.

In my book, the north is anything in England north of Shropshire and Lincolnshire. The south is anything south of Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and Leicestershire!

Anything left is either the Midlands, East Anglia or the West Country!

 

[Class172]

In my book, the north is anything in England north of Shropshire and Lincolnshire. The south is anything south of Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and Leicestershire!

Anything left is either the Midlands, East Anglia or the West Country!

This is what I define as North/South. East Anglia does belong on it's own but for the purposes of this I call it south.

 

[Schnellzug]

This is what I define as North/South. East Anglia does belong on it's own but for the purposes of this I call it south.

I think that that could perhaps be subdivided into South-east and South-west (along, perhaps, the Southampton-Salisbury-Bath line, or more precisely perhaps along the old Somerset & Dorset line from Bournemouth to Bath). To me, I think, Bournemouth & Poole is about the western edge of the prosperous South-East, and there's a distinct difference west of there.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The southern coastline of Britain is so wide as to to make three divisions:-

South West
South Central
South East

Being not from that area, I would leave the border decisions to those conversant with the local geography of the area.

 

[Butts]

In my book, the north is anything in England north of Shropshire and Lincolnshire. The south is anything south of Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and Leicestershire!

Anything left is either the Midlands, East Anglia or the West Country!

Well I would call "The North" anything North of Perth....

 

[WestCoast]

Well I would call "The North" anything North of Perth....

Scotland is the only place where Yorkshire is classed as being "down south".

 

[HST Power]

The southern coastline of Britain is so wide as to to make three divisions:-

South West
South Central
South East

Being not from that area, I would leave the border decisions to those conversant with the local geography of the area.

It is rather complex. I base my Geography on the consituency, and at present, whilst it could be said that I live in the South East, Letchworth is represented by the North East Herts constituency, which covers Royston, Letchworth and down to parts of Watton-at-Stone, even though there is another massive chunk in the middle called 'Stevenage' which is represented as another constituency. When the boundary changes come into play, NE Herts is set to become even bigger and take over Hitchin and Stotfold. It's quite confusing. Oliver Heald is my MP and he told that he wanted his constituency to get smaller, but it's getting bigger!!!

There are other MP's who represent South and Northern parts of Cambridgeshire, but as for King's Lynn, Ely and the like I know little.

 

[Greenback]

Well I would call "The North" anything North of Perth....

Aye, it all depends where you are from! I remember Barry Doe putting it in perspective years ago when he recalled his first trip to Wick. On asking his B&B landlady if she'd ever been to the south (meaning Bournemouth!) she paused before replying 'Well, I did once visit Inverness'.

I thought it was a good story which demonstrates how notions of The North are mostly created and perpetuated by those living south of Watford!

 

[Class172]

Here is what I describe as the regions of England; sorry if I have forgottenany major counties:-

South West
Bath & N.E Somerset
Bristol
Cornwall
Devon
Dorset
North Somerset
Somerset
South
Bournemouth & Poole
Hampshire
Oxfordshire
West Berkshire
Wiltshire
South East
East Sussex
Greater London
Kent
Surrey
West Sussex
West Midlands
Gloucestershire
Herefordshire
Staffordshire
Shropshire
Warwickshire
West Midlands
Worcestershire
East Midlands
Derbyshire
Leicestershire
Lincolnshire
Nottinghamshire
Northamptonshire
Rutland
East Anglia
Bedfordshire
Cambridgeshire
Essex
Hertfordshire
Norfolk
Suffolk


To be finished when I have time.

 

[507 001]

It already is changing up here, the OP is talking rubbish and quite frankly, I'm offended.

I suggest if you hate the north so much go try living down south.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Read the thread more, eventually you'll see what I meant.

 

[Yank 119]

I started this thread like I did to get debate / arguing going on. I don't personally hold those views, it's a collection of what I have heard / read over the years.

So you deliberately posted something inflammatory (a lie at that) to get people to argue?

That's called being a troll.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So you deliberately posted something inflammatory (a lie at that) to get people to argue?

That's called being a troll.

If you see it that way, fair enough, but if you read through my posts you should realise that I normally formulate arguments better than that. With 4,428 posts I'm a pretty successful 'troll'! I can assure you though that the OP wasn't my own work.

 

[Barrett M95]

If you see it that way, fair enough, but if you read through my posts you should realise that I normally formulate arguments better than that. With 4,428 posts I'm a pretty successful 'troll'! I can assure you though that the OP wasn't my own work.

Agreed - I for one have often thought the same thing as you did about some areas up north, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. It is a valid point for discussion I think.

 

[Drsatan]

Agreed - I for one have often thought the same thing as you did about some areas up north, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. It is a valid point for discussion I think.

Very true. If MattE2010 was a genuine troll he would have been banned by now!

Back on topic, I find it difficult to support the idea that north = grim and south = good. This is because, as others have said, that even in supposedly affluent parts of the country you still find areas of poverty.

Take Devon for instance. Although people think that Devon is a relatively affluent county due to the tourist industry, that's far from the case. In Exeter I've found more homeless people than any other British city, and there are a few areas of Exeter (Exford springs to mind, although I don't know whether that's classed as part of Exeter or whether it's a seperate town) that don't seem particularly wealthy. Wages in Exeter are lower than the national average, which translates to lower disposable incomes considering that the average rent for a property is above average, and that people living in the South West pay the most for water. Even though Torquay and Paignton are reliant on the tourist industry, most work in those towns is seasonal and the number of second home owners means that buying a property is prohibitively expensive. Finally, in Okehampton, churches have had to start giving food parcels originally intended for destinations abroad to local people because many can't afford to buy food at the moment.

Cornwall also shares many of the same problems as Devon: high housing costs, low average wages, and seasonal employment. I've discovered that in Cambourne, an ex-mining town, churches have set up food banks for locals.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To bring a little levity into these matters, the North-West can boast a hamlet that is served by the B10/B11 bi-directional Clitheroe - Slaidburn - Clitheroe services by the name of....Cow Ark....whose focal and social high-life point in the timetable is the telephone kiosk there.:roll:

 

[IanXC]

Personally, I prefer the south (NOT the south east, but the south) but then that's where I've grown up. The south east tends to have more slightly grotty but just about livable areas whereas up north you seem to congregate all the grottyness into certain towns and cities.

I've attached another one of my maps to illustrate my view of the cultural/geographical borders.

I'd agree with this map - although I'm not sure I'd separate "the West" from "the South West".

I dislike the fact that TV news has a 'northern' correspondent - they don't have one for the south. Also, when Doncaster flooded a few years back, little on the news, when Tewkesbury when under, a flood(!) of reports on it.

This drives me mad! Its as if they were organising correspondents and thought, right so one for France, one for Health, one for Crime, one for America, one for the North... Wonder if they pay overseas posting allowances

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It really is rim and depressing up here, hopefully I'm not the only 'Northerner' (though i don't consider myself so) to admit it.

How can you live in the Blackburn area and not consider yourself a "Northerner" ? What do you mean by "rim" in quote above....do you consider the North to be "on the edge" of economic matters?

Your own area of Blackburn has a historical focus that you should be proud of and not to decry. The area has historical links to the days of pre-history which show the area was suitable for habitation by ancient tribal peoples and the Roman invasion of Britain saw its importance by their military fort at nearby Ribchester (Bremetennacum Veteranumurum) and in the following Anglo-Saxon period, Blackburn was an important place in the Kingdom of Northumbria. Following the Norman invasion, the area was entered in the Domesday Book (Blachebourne). You may consider textile production in the area to be only from the days of the Industrial Revolution, but textiles have been produced at Blackburn since the 13th Century, which encouraged the Flemish weavers to settle here in the 14th Century. I will not make any detailed comment on the long religious history of your own area, as I know this is anathema to your views on this matter.

Look at the area that surrounds Blackburn and not just the environs of its central base and you will find many areas that are far removed from your description in the thread title. There are people in London who would consider your own "Northern" area to be be far preferable to the areas in which they live. I consider that I am a "Northerner" even though I live in the most affluent part of Cheshire East and I can see much in your own area to be proud of.

 

[Buttsy]

Here is what I describe as the regions of England; sorry if I have forgottenany major counties:-

South West
Bath & N.E Somerset
Bristol
Cornwall
Devon
Dorset
North Somerset
Somerset
South
Bournemouth & Poole
Hampshire
Oxfordshire
West Berkshire
Wiltshire
South East
East Sussex
Greater London
Kent
Surrey
West Sussex
West Midlands
Gloucestershire
Herefordshire
Staffordshire
Shropshire
Warwickshire
West Midlands
Worcestershire
East Midlands
Derbyshire
Leicestershire
Lincolnshire
Nottinghamshire
Northamptonshire
Rutland
East Anglia
Bedfordshire
Cambridgeshire
Essex
Hertfordshire
Norfolk
Suffolk


You get the idea...

Yes, however, you would find people in Henley (Oxon) who think they're in the South and people in Banbury (Oxon) & Chipping Norton (Oxon) who consider themselves Midlanders. We are the b*****d county in that no-one really wants us. We came under ATV & Central according to ITV and South according to BBC. Who are we? What are we doing here? Why are men in white coats surrounding me??????

 

[Class172]

Yes, however, you would find people in Henley (Oxon) who think they're in the South and people in Banbury (Oxon) & Chipping Norton (Oxon) who consider themselves Midlanders. We are the b*****d county in that no-one really wants us. We came under ATV & Central according to ITV and South according to BBC. Who are we? What are we doing here? Why are men in white coats surrounding me??????

Didn't Oxfordshire consume a huge amount of Berkshire quite a while back?

Yes, I would say Banbury is Midlands but Henley is South.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Here is what I describe as the regions of England; sorry if I have forgotten any major counties:-

South West
Bath & N.E Somerset
Bristol
Cornwall
Devon
Dorset
North Somerset
Somerset
South
Bournemouth & Poole
Hampshire
Oxfordshire
West Berkshire
Wiltshire
South East
East Sussex
Greater London
Kent
Surrey
West Sussex
West Midlands
Gloucestershire
Herefordshire
Staffordshire
Shropshire
Warwickshire
West Midlands
Worcestershire
East Midlands
Derbyshire
Leicestershire
Lincolnshire
Nottinghamshire
Northamptonshire
Rutland
East Anglia
Bedfordshire
Cambridgeshire
Essex
Hertfordshire
Norfolk
Suffolk


You get the idea...

Well, you appear to have been very thorough with your listing of the Midlands and all the Southern areas of England.

However, there are all the traditional "Northern" counties.....none of which you have named (and that is without adding in the names of recently created self-governing unitary bodies). I give the following to you to add to your list:-

Cheshire
Lancashire
Cumbria
Northumberland
Teesside
Durham
North Yorkshire
West Yorkshire
South Yorkshire
Humberside

 

[blackettstreet]

It is that old stereotype, but somehow I agree. The North is rubbish.

Absolutely! Tyneside, for example, is crime central. Every drug dealer in town lives in my back lane!

 

[IanXC]

Well, you appear to have been very thorough with your listing of the Midlands and all the Southern areas of England.

However, there are all the traditional "Northern" counties.....none of which you have named (and that is without adding in the names of recently created self-governing unitary bodies). I give the following to you to add to your list:-

Cheshire
Lancashire
Cumbria
Northumberland
Teesside
Durham
North Yorkshire
West Yorkshire
South Yorkshire
Humberside

I'm not sure how "traditional" Humberside and Teesside are! Maybe these:

East Yorkshire
North and North East Lincolnshire are of course traditionally Lincolnshire
Teesside is traditionally part Durham and part North Yorkshire

 

[Schnellzug]

Well, you appear to have been very thorough with your listing of the Midlands and all the Southern areas of England.

However, there are all the traditional "Northern" counties.....none of which you have named (and that is without adding in the names of recently created self-governing unitary bodies). I give the following to you to add to your list:-

Cheshire
Lancashire
Cumbria
Northumberland
Teesside
Durham
North Yorkshire
West Yorkshire
South Yorkshire
Humberside

Well, that all comes under The Norf.

 

[90019]

Every drug dealer in town lives in my back lane!

You must be a good customer.

 

[Buttsy]

Didn't Oxfordshire consume a huge amount of Berkshire quite a while back?

Yes, I would say Banbury is Midlands but Henley is South.

Yes until 1974. I actually live in occupied North Berkshire, about 1.5 miles from Oxford station!

We gave Berkshire Caversham and gained Wantage, Didcot and Abingdon, so I think they got the better deal!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm not sure how "traditional" Humberside and Teesside are! Maybe these:

East Yorkshire
North and North East Lincolnshire are of course traditionally Lincolnshire
Teesside is traditionally part Durham and part North Yorkshire

Just like the old Gold Rush '49's, I had to quickly stake my claim before our forum members from Scotland decided to add all that "Northern" unclaimed territory for King Salmond. My apologies to those members still in education as when I was in such a scholastic position, counties such as Westmorland and Cumberland were still in existance....but at least the groat had been withdrawn from the currency