The Norton Bridge Flyover.

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by Mugby, 12 Apr 2015.

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  1. Mugby

    Mugby Established Member

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    I got chance to have a good look at this today as I passed by on an XC Manchester service. It was the first time I'd seen it since work began in earnest and I was astonished by the scale of it. I had imagined something akin to the Shaftholme Flyover but this is an immense undertaking, it's a major piece of new railway construction with very extensive earthworks.

    Does anyone know what the distance will be from end to end and what the estimated or final cost will be?
     
    Last edited: 12 Apr 2015
  2. table38

    table38 Established Member

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  3. Tubeboy

    Tubeboy Member

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    Well they are spending £250m, so it's quite a big piece of work.
     
  4. snowball

    snowball Established Member

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  5. ironstone11

    ironstone11 Member

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  6. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    Does anyone know what improvements to services are likely as a result of the flyover.

    The BBC claims:

    Extra trains to the NorthWest would be welcome - but are there any spare trains to run such services with? I didn't think there were.
     
  7. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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    Maybe there aren't any spare trains at the moment but the flyover is a serious long term investment, surely?

    You can't just not build something which is expected to last longer than any of us will be alive because you don't have the trains to flood it in year one.
     
    Last edited: 13 Apr 2015
  8. BelleIsle

    BelleIsle Member

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    When I was discussing potential Blackpool-London services with local politicians a number of years ago I was told that apart from improved realibility the big changes were two additional Brum-Manc passenger paths and two additional TV-Crewe passenger paths plus some possible freight paths.

    The option that caught my attention was an hourly service from Euston to Blackpool North with calls at Warrington BQ, Wigan NW, Preston, Kirkham and Poulton. The main aim was to improve capacity to WBQ/WNW which had massive growth in passenge numbers due to the fast, regular service provided by VHF. Going to Blackpool was a bonus that derived from the operational necessity to turn the train around at somewhere other than Preston. In turn, this would allow the existing hourly direct Glasgow service to lose its WBQ/WNW stops thus freeing up seats for everyone else and saving a little time. Preston would be a big winner with a half hourly service to London with one train per hour under the magic 2 hours. Add in the time saving at Norton Bridge (mainly due to reduction in recovery time) and the Glasgow run was getting tantilisingly close to to 4 hours. There was a lot of work done to see where this extra time could be squeezed from. Everything from adding yaw dampers to 320s to get them up to 90 and mitigitating the crawl north of Motherwell to the oft discussed Stafford diversion.

    It was only an option but both the local councils and Virgin seemed keen from what I was told. The latest I heard was that whilst not in the WC ITT the stock order for the proposed Liverpool or Blackpool to Scotland service could easily be expanded to cover London-Blackpool.
     
  9. QueensCurve

    QueensCurve Established Member

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    It is billed by NR as 6 miles of new railway.

    In essence, there is a new double track railway from Little Bridgeford to Yarnfield flying over the WCML just north of norton bridge. It throws off a single line at Searchlight Lane to form the new slow line to Crewe. The existing slow line to Crewe connects into the New Up Stone at Little Bridgeford.

    Down Slow to Down Stone and Up Stone to Up Slow turnouts will bye 100mph unless I am very much mistaken.

    Meanwhile, the existing route from Yarnfield to Norton Bridge becomes a 40mph single track with single lead junctions at either end.

    It is indeed a lot of heavy engineering to achieve a stated benefit of 2 extra paths per hour for passenger trains and one per hour for freight.

    I can't help but think that there must be a potential for more new paths if the 3/h passenger trains between Crewe and Birmingham used the Slow line (being upgraded for 100mph). Does anyone have a feeling for what effect this would have on timings?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Through trains from Euston to Blackpool would require the additional paths and completion of the flyover should roughly coincide with electrification to Blackpool, but that would require additional electric trains.
     
  10. pablo

    pablo Member

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    Doesn't the same need to be done at Colwich Junction to gain the full benefit of non-conflicting paths?
     
  11. TheGrew

    TheGrew Member

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    Some benefit may be gained by I think the bigger issue was that the LM Crewe service and the two XC services had to Cross over the WCML in order go over towards Stone.

    Whilst it may not bring immediate benefits in terms of capacity I think it would greatly help reliability. As a former regular user of the route from Stafford to Stoke I was often held on approach to Norton Bridge to allow a Pendo to pass on the WCML Fasts.

    I think this has more in common with the recent Hitchin Flyover.
     
  12. CdBrux

    CdBrux Member

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    Network rail, using above link, say in relation to both this and Stafford area improvements:

    and:

    Faster journeys

     
  13. QueensCurve

    QueensCurve Established Member

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    Don't get me going on Colwich!

    When the fast and slow lines were transposed as part of the TV 4 tracking, the Down fast to Down Main speed went from 90mph to 50 (later "upgraded" to 65mph). Trains bound for stoke can approach at 85mph only to have to slow for the 45mph speed limit at the diamond.

    Surely it would improve on this if the down fast were to take the Stafford route with a lower speed turnout to stoke.

    I understand there is no intention to change this as part of the current Stafford area resignalling.
     
  14. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    Don't expect much WCML wise as Euston being ripped up isn't going to allow much, if at all. XC services have potential to get quicker as the flyover should allow them to get out infront of the Pendo at Stone.

    Can't see how it releases that much.

    There is no recovery time, only a minutes engineering allowance which won't be removed.

    Correct, no access from the slows to the chord though (which there doesn't need to be as that isn't what its for). Don't be fooled into thinking its 100mph to Stone, it goes back to 75mph at Yarnfield.

    Slow line timings should already be quicker as part of the new section of 100mph to the north.

    Colwich needs sorting, but bear in mind there is only 1 tph that actually crosses the job there.

    Its on Stoke SCC so its not part of Stafford's area of control. Early CP6 is when anything will happen there.
     
  15. Philip C

    Philip C Member

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    Surely 2 tph (xx00 and xx20 from Euston)
     
    Last edited: 13 Apr 2015
  16. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    Fat finger syndrome.
     
  17. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    If my eyes didn't deceive me yesterday, there is a bit of track laid on the south end of the new alignment at Little Bridgeford.
    As well as much OHLE work at the new junction to cater for the divergence of the routes.
    The abutments for the new rail bridge north of Norton Bridge are looking prominent now.
     
  18. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Yes, it's only the xx40 that goes Crewe/Wilmslow.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Me too!! Passed it on the 16:40 Eus-Man last Friday. Just when you think you've passed it, there's more.
     
  19. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    Sounds about right, i think the plan is to have like a mini railhead to drop off and take stuff back out there.
     
  20. BantamMenace

    BantamMenace Member

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    What is the estimated completion date of this?
     
  21. snowball

    snowball Established Member

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  22. 03_179

    03_179 Member

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    Morning,

    Saturday I was on the train to Liverpool, now I haven't been along the WCML in a long while but I noticed what appeared to be a new junction with new OHL being constructed.

    Can anyone tell me what this is for and where it is going to/from please?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  23. Altfish

    Altfish Member

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    It is the Norton Junction improvements which will enable trains from Birmingham to Stoke to cross the WCML on grade separated track.

    Here's some information on it...
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/stafford-crewe/nortonbridge/
    ...there is probably a thread on here already discussing it.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2016
  24. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Norton Bridge: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/stafford-crewe/

     
  25. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Member

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  26. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    what are you confused about?

    EDIT: I see the addition of extra text. thanks. Is it physical completion of the construction work at Easter but with it plumbed into the network at Christmas?
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2016
  27. Railsigns

    Railsigns Established Member

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    The flyover comes into use at Easter, with a further stage at the end of May to complete the East Chord. Given the date of the article (1 Oct 2015), I presume the reference to track laying in November and December relates to work completed last year.
     
  28. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Member

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    Thats what I thought, but then it says later "Main works are scheduled to run to 2017"
     
  29. snowball

    snowball Established Member

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    That's probably referring to the original schedule. The works are massively ahead of that.

    I'm perpetually perplexed by this board's policy of closing threads that go quiet for a while even if they relate to ongoing schemes.

    One place where this scheme has received some discussion is here:

    http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=109588
     
  30. deltic08

    deltic08 Established Member

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    The new flyovers and Up and Down reliefs will be commissioned at Easter but the Up and Down fasts will be closed Xmas 2016 for the old junction to be taken out, old relief lines to become new Up and Down fasts for faster alignment.
     
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