The Norton Bridge Flyover.

[swt_passenger]

I thought the Trent Valley had been used under tests for Pendolinos at >125mph?

All stock has to be given a 10% overspeed test somewhere or other, but that would be done under special conditions, effectively no other trains ahead of the testing location. It doesn't necessarily follow from that that it can be also done safely under normal traffic conditions.

 

[Crossover]

Anyone have any idea what's going on at Norton Bridge at the moment? Everything seems to have stopped on the Down Fast, Up Fast and Up Slow...been like this for almost 30 minutes

As an aside from this, does anyone have a copy of what the track diagram used to look like before the installation/commissioning of the flyover?

 

[swt_passenger]

As an aside from this, does anyone have a copy of what the track diagram used to look like before the installation/commissioning of the flyover?

The online sectional appendix still shows the previous layout, dated 05 March 2016.

LNW (North) - Module NW1 map section pages 11 and 12: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...on north western north sectional appendix.pdf

Probably will be amended very soon now.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

All stock has to be given a 10% overspeed test somewhere or other, but that would be done under special conditions, effectively no other trains ahead of the testing location. It doesn't necessarily follow from that that it can be also done safely under normal traffic conditions.

A former colleague was on the footplate of a modified class 86 that ran one of these tests ... at 122mph (certified).

There is a surprisingly large margin between the current limits on curves (which are all comfort driven) and the actual overturning of a train.

That said, it isn't so wide in a Pendo shop car at full tilt ...

 

[craigybagel]

I'm pretty sure 225kph (140mph) is run with lineside signals on some lines in France and Germany (eg parts of the Tours-Bordeaux line run by TGV Atlantique, after leaving the LGV).
The Florence-Rome Direttissima I think also runs with fixed signals for classic trains, using double blocks.

Can't speak for France but Germany is 160kmh max without cab signalling (LZB). At 125mph Britain's railways are already some of the fastest around without cab signalling.

 

[neilb62]

I thought the Trent Valley had been used under tests for Pendolinos at >125mph?

In the pre- 4 tracking days.. We were brake testing in the Up direction between Litchfield and Rugby within a possession with 390002 (Then PS2) 200% laden I got @142 mph near High-Oaks and a colleague got IIRC 144.6. This was on a filthy drizzly night and we were only allowed 125 through Nuneaton (then 110) so couldn't get much of a run-up. From that speed it still stopped in just over a signal-section though!
I wonder what we could have done on a dry rail with no speed restrictions?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Can't speak for France but Germany is 160kmh max without cab signalling (LZB). At 125mph Britain's railways are already some of the fastest around without cab signalling.

I think SNCF uses flashing green and a KVB protection system between Tours and Bordeaux, with a line speed up to 220kph (137.5mph).
From French Wiki (the English version is much less detailed): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Paris-Austerlitz_à_Bordeaux-Saint-Jean

La ligne est entièrement équipée du block automatique lumineux. Les sections autorisées à une vitesse supérieure à 160 km/h sont en outre équipée de la signalisation de préannonce.
La faible longueur des cantons permet le tracé de sillons avec un intervalle de trois minutes pour les trains les plus rapides, voire deux minutes et trente secondes dans certaines parties de la ligne

All being replaced by a new LGV next year.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Norton Bridge area reopened today (Slow lines and flyover only) after the Bank Holiday closure.
The Fast lines are closed for another 6 days for remodelling.
Passing on the Slow today it was not easy to see what was going on as there were engineering trains in the way, but basically NR was reconstructing the Up Fast on its new alignment, together with its new ladder junction to/from Stone.
The old Down Slow, severed over Easter, is still in situ.

With the Fast lines between Crewe and Stafford closed for 9 days, it was good to see maintenance work going on in at least 4 separate locations between Norton Bridge and Crewe.
The whole layout closes again this weekend, after which it should be open in something like its final state (until the Spring Bank Holiday anyway).

 

[Whistler40145]

Are Virgin trains to/from Crewe being diverted via Alsager whilst the Fast lines are being realigned at Norton Bridge?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Are Virgin trains to/from Crewe being diverted via Alsager whilst the Fast lines are being realigned at Norton Bridge?

No, pretty much everything is using the Slow lines (now 100mph). A few freights are going via Alsager I think.
This week, the Chester/North Wales 221s are not running south of Crewe, and one of the two Birmingham-Liverpools is axed, otherwise normal.
I caught one of the remaining Liverpool ones today and it was a doubled up 350, the first time I have seen an 8-car 350 on the route.
The speed limit over the new route at Norton Bridge has gone up from 50mph but seems a bit short of 100 as yet.

 

[Whistler40145]

Great news.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Passing through on the new Fast line layout today, I noticed that the remodelled flat single-track connection with the Stone line is not yet complete.
Plenty of orange suits in evidence, but a gap in the route towards Stone (the Fast line crossovers and turnout are in place) .
A 50mph limit is still in force, and the old (severed) Down Slow is still in situ.
So plenty to do over the Spring Bank Holiday weekend.

 

[Freightmaster]

Passing through on the new Fast line layout today, I noticed that the remodelled flat single-track connection with the Stone line is not yet complete.

From a previous post in this thread, I that's all part of the master plan:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=26071&d=1459374818


Once the 'East Chord' is commissioned, I understand that most
LM Crewe to Euston trains will be booked to use it.


MARK

 

[mikestone1952]

The online sectional appendix still shows the previous layout, dated 05 March 2016.

LNW (North) - Module NW1 map section pages 11 and 12: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...on north western north sectional appendix.pdf

Probably will be amended very soon now.

The on-line appendices are only updated every three months when the supplements are (or would have been?) published and even they don't include recent changes.
;
There has been a TSR on the up through Little Bridgeford and quite a way towards Great Bridgeford, currently 70, ever since commissioning - does anyone know why?
Rather to my surprise the temporary connection in the down wasn't removed initially (I wouldn't like to be the man who agreed that, had anything gone amiss and derailed a down train towards the up slow) but when it was a TSR was imposed, which has gone in the last week or two.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looks like a complex service this weekend (Sat-Mon).
London-Liverpool runs via Madeley and Stockport on Sun 29th, but comes back via Stockport, Macclesfield and Hixon, according to RTT.
Looks like the Up Fast is closed throughout at Norton Bridge, other lines at times as well.
WCML Crewe-Scotland closed Sat midday to Mon midday (all 3 days in Scotland).

 

[absolutelymilk]

So what will be the changes in linespeed after this weekend?

 

[The Planner]

Should be 115EPS on the up fast.

 

[craigybagel]

Looks like a complex service this weekend (Sat-Mon).
London-Liverpool runs via Madeley and Stockport on Sun 29th, but comes back via Stockport, Macclesfield and Hixon, according to RTT.
Looks like the Up Fast is closed throughout at Norton Bridge, other lines at times as well.
WCML Crewe-Scotland closed Sat midday to Mon midday (all 3 days in Scotland).

Crewe-Sandbach is closed Sunday morning as well so presumably there will be extra diversions then as well.

 

[The Planner]

There has been a TSR on the up through Little Bridgeford and quite a way towards Great Bridgeford, currently 70, ever since commissioning - does anyone know why?

Combination of plain line track renewal and bits of left over Norton Bridge signalling works.

 

[mikestone1952]

Slightly off but what is the reason for the 30 at Stafford on the DS and removal/suppression of flashing aspects for moves DS-DF at Doxey?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
115 EPS on the up fast now but east chord not commissioned - not that that has stopped a poster appearing on Stafford station saying work is now complete.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

115 EPS on the up fast now but east chord not commissioned - not that that has stopped a poster appearing on Stafford station saying work is now complete.

Yes, the Up Fast is now at its design speed with tilt active for the first time.
However the Down Fast still has the 70mph TSR.
They appeared to be tamping the new east curve as I passed.
Anyway 16.2 minutes Crewe-Stafford start to stop ain't bad.

Oh, and the abandoned length of the Down Slow is still there.
Still more to do evidently.

 

[The Planner]

The down slow won't be going anywhere soon I suspect. Current running time Crewe Stafford is 16½ so the SRTs are accurate.

 

[mikestone1952]

Substantial section of the DS have been lifted - part of that remaining has been cut into shorter lengths and then clamped back together again, presumably for RR vehicles.
;
Continuing failure to commision the east chord really bit them in the backside today. Despite the 09.27 ex Manchester being trapped by a points failure at Little Bridgeford the 10.07, 10.27 and 11.07 were allowed to run booked route.

 

[mikestone1952]

Although the East chord was brought into use last Friday the vast majority of trains have been using the flyover.
;
I suspect this may be due to drivers not having learnt it - one I was watching last Friday appeared from the map to stop at Yarnfield and wait the route to time out.

 

[QueensCurve]

Although the East chord was brought into use last Friday the vast majority of trains have been using the flyover.
;
I suspect this may be due to drivers not having learnt it - one I was watching last Friday appeared from the map to stop at Yarnfield and wait the route to time out.

Traveled from Stafford to Stone on Thursday last, return Saturday.

Used flyover both ways. Guard on the Crewe to Euston said they "have to use that new flyover".

It would perhaps seem logical to me the Down Euston to Crewe would use the turnout onto the slow line at Milford Junction and use the Norton Bridge East Chord in the Up direction. This is not presently happening.

 

[rdeez]

Traveled from Stafford to Stone on Thursday last, return Saturday.

Used flyover both ways. Guard on the Crewe to Euston said they "have to use that new flyover".

It would perhaps seem logical to me the Down Euston to Crewe would use the turnout onto the slow line at Milford Junction and use the Norton Bridge East Chord in the Up direction. This is not presently happening.

I was under the impression that the chord was only there for operational flexibility, not for regular timetabled usage. After all, doesn't it have a much lower speed limit (30mph vs 100mph for the up slow)? And it only provides access to the fast lines until Stafford North Junction.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I was under the impression that the chord was only there for operational flexibility, not for regular timetabled usage. After all, doesn't it have a much lower speed limit (30mph vs 100mph for the up slow)? And it only provides access to the fast lines until Stafford North Junction.

Correct. The East Chord is only their for operational flexibility and as such has much slower turnouts. It is not intended for regular use.

 

[The Planner]

Still debate over whether it is used for timetabling, it is more useful for platform 1 at Stafford.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was under the impression that the chord was only there for operational flexibility, not for regular timetabled usage. After all, doesn't it have a much lower speed limit (30mph vs 100mph for the up slow)? And it only provides access to the fast lines until Stafford North Junction.

I think the turnout speeds on the new east chord are higher than that - 40/50?
I travelled past last Sunday morning (31st) on the Fast, and the Up Slow seemed out of action.
The east chord seemed signalled and useable.
RTT suggests it was planned for LM TVs to go that way (FL EC), and straight into P1 at Stafford: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P63290/2016/07/31/advanced

 

[Starmill]

I definitely read that it was planned for regular use. It certainly makes sense: if a train from Stoke-on-Trent heading up the mainline uses the new flyover, it will have to cross all of the down lines to get to the up slow.