The Norton Bridge Flyover.

[FordFocus]

Thanks

 

[QueensCurve]

You do get flashed in off the Up Fast, the 40 in is virtually pointless as the 25 starts at the North end of the platform!

A similar situation exists at the remodelled Oxenholme where the turnout from the Down Fast has been increased from 10 to 25. 40 to follow? The speed limit on the platform however is still 10.

Do NR intend to enhance either of these?

 

[edwin_m]

A similar situation exists at the remodelled Oxenholme where the turnout from the Down Fast has been increased from 10 to 25. 40 to follow? The speed limit on the platform however is still 10.

Do NR intend to enhance either of these?

At the risk of going off topic, August's Modern Railways has a diagram of the final arrangement at Oxenholme. According to this it will be 40 entering and within the loop, 20mph on the bit between the loop and the platform and 10mph on the platform itself. The crossovers to and from the main line between the loop and the platform will be 25mph* and there will be a 40mph main to main crossover for Up trains from the branch to join the Up Main. Except for the 10mph all these are faster than the layout before the start of works.

*diagram may be wrong here, as 25mph crossovers off a 20mph line don't make much sense.

 

[onlinespotting]

1)
2) Supposing a station at Norton Bridge had never existed in the first place; would anyone be now actually proposing one? I would suspect that the likely low usage would not justify the cost of provision of a new station in this location.

The fact is a station does exist,and if there is no chance of a reopening (at Barlaston and Wedgwood there is always a possibility however unlikely) ,then the process should be invoked to close the station; ( see Watford West which retained higher usage than Gainsborough Central, even though the tracks had been removed!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Norton Bridge has a one a day service whereas Stone- Barlaston - Wedgwood- Stoke has an hourly service- see replacement bus service : http://www.stokebus.info/timetables/14-14A-14B.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Btw the services that pass the aforesaid stations have changed numbers and companies several times over the last few years so they purely exist to serve the stations

 

[Bevan Price]

If the up Liverpool is running late it seems that they hold the LM service on the up slow. Perhaps we need an up passenger loop just north of Stafford, or maybe the capability to run through platform 1 and set back into the bay...

Surely it would be more sensible for the LM Crewe - Euston services to use Platform 4 at Stafford and continue south on the slow lines until they join the fast lines south of Stafford.

 

[Ianno87]

Surely it would be more sensible for the LM Crewe - Euston services to use Platform 4 at Stafford and continue south on the slow lines until they join the fast lines south of Stafford.

Platforms 4/5 do have a near continuous stream of trains through them (including stuff off the Fast Lines towards Birmingham), so stopping an extra train in the mix is not necessarily straightforward.

Plus the Slow Lines between Trent Valley Jn and Whitehouse Jn are often useful to hide freights out of the way of passenger services on the Fast Lines.

 

[QueensCurve]

Surely it would be more sensible for the LM Crewe - Euston services to use Platform 4 at Stafford and continue south on the slow lines until they join the fast lines south of Stafford.

My service Stone to Stafford on 30 July was checked waiting for a freight train to clear the section before joining the Up Slow at Little Bridgeford and then waited for time on P3 at Stafford while the Liverpool to Euston went through. It then departed on the Up Fast.

This seemed to work well on the occasion.

 

[mikestone1952]

The fact is a station does exist,and if there is no chance of a reopening (at Barlaston and Wedgwood there is always a possibility however unlikely) ,then the process should be invoked to close the station; ( see Watford West which retained higher usage than Gainsborough Central, even though the tracks had been removed!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Norton Bridge has a one a day service whereas Stone- Barlaston - Wedgwood- Stoke has an hourly service- see replacement bus service : http://www.stokebus.info/timetables/14-14A-14B.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Btw the services that pass the aforesaid stations have changed numbers and companies several times over the last few years so they purely exist to serve the stations

Norton Bridge has more than one bus per day. Its' main service is the 13, previously 490. Both services are also replacements for various Potteries, Bennets and Arriva rural routes. It's a mystery (to me anyway) why that one odd 14 journey serves Norton Bridge as the 13 has the same number of journeys as the 490 it replaced. Previous operators did use a different bus for the last 490 but D&G don't, the bus off the 14 disappearing back into the town and the all-day bus off the 13 running light between the last two journeys.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Norton Bridge has more than one bus per day. Its' main service is the 13, previously 490. Both services are also replacements for various Potteries, Bennets and Arriva rural routes. It's a mystery (to me anyway) why that one odd 14 journey serves Norton Bridge as the 13 has the same number of journeys as the 490 it replaced. Previous operators did use a different bus for the last 490 but D&G don't, the bus off the 14 disappearing back into the town and the all-day bus off the 13 running light between the last two journeys.

It gives a later departure from Stone to Norton Bridge. The last 13 service from Stone being at 1442, then the 14 service at 1632. I haven't checked the franchise specification but Norton Bridge ought to be served from both Stone and Stafford directions if the bus is to truly be a rail replacement service. Some might suggest, that to properly replace the rail service, the bus service should operate Stafford to Stoke (including Norton Bridge, Stone, Barlaston and Wedgwood) and sell rail tickets on board.

 

[onlinespotting]

It gives a later departure from Stone to Norton Bridge. The last 13 service from Stone being at 1442, then the 14 service at 1632. I haven't checked the franchise specification but Norton Bridge ought to be served from both Stone and Stafford directions if the bus is to truly be a rail replacement service. Some might suggest, that to properly replace the rail service, the bus service should operate Stafford to Stoke (including Norton Bridge, Stone, Barlaston and Wedgwood) and sell rail tickets on board.

Ah I see so therefore that odd 14 service fulfills the requirements for (Hanley-) Stoke to Stafford via all stations

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Ah I see so therefore that odd 14 service fulfills the requirements for (Hanley-) Stoke to Stafford via all stations

No, I'm suggesting that there happens to be a bus, passing in the general vicinity, at a convenient time, which can be diverted slightly to perhaps meet a franchise requirement. EDIT There is a franchise commitment to provide a bus after 1530 from Stone to Stafford (LM direct award SLC, route AB)

Given the lack of passenger sources between Eccleshall and Great Bridgeford, I am surprised the 13 hasn't been merged into a revised 14 to save one bus diagram. It would balance up the point-to-point times with the 14's which serve Knightley and Woodseaves. The purpose isn't to provide a service which is actually attractive to the public, it is merely to meet a regulatory requirement in the most efficient manner (i.e. cheapest to all concerned), hence some of the dross which operated (or not) the service in recent years.

 

[onlinespotting]

Interesting, see page 30-33, it seems service 14 is LM route AA and service 13 is LM route AB currently , previously the X1 was quite a quick route from stoke to stone which was funded by LM. But the forerunner to the 14 was the ridiculously diverted 23 which took over an hour!

 

[QueensCurve]

This morning NRE is reporting a signalling problem between Stone and Stafford.

Trains appear to be being diverted via Crewe or Hixon. 1V49 0907 Manchester to Bristol appears to have got as far as Stoke and then returned to Kidsgrove to go via Crewe.

Does anyone know what is happening?

Incident created
12/08/2016 10:32
Last updated
12/08/2016 10:37
Route affected
Download map of route affected

Between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent via Stone

TOC(s) affected
CrossCountry; London Midland;
Description

A signalling problem between Stafford and Stone is causing delays of up to 60 minutes to trains between Stafford and Stoke-on-Trent via Stone. Some trains between these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected to continue until 12:00.

You can follow this incident on Twitter using #Stone

If you experience a delay in completing your journey because of this disruption, you may be entitled to compensation

We want to make information better – tell us how! Fill out this online Disruption Survey

To check your journey, please use the National Rail Enquiries real-time Journey Planner
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/145464.aspx

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Interesting, see page 30-33, it seems service 14 is LM route AA and service 13 is LM route AB currently , previously the X1 was quite a quick route from stoke to stone which was funded by LM. But the forerunner to the 14 was the ridiculously diverted 23 which took over an hour!

The rail replacement bus has been changed so many times since it was a dedicated limited stop service (which was only supposed to operate whilst WCML upgrades were completed, honest guv). Once it was a proper rail replacement bus, stopping only at the rail stations, rather than a service bus which may come, sort of, closeish to the stations no longer served by trains!

The First 23 was by far the worst of the recent offerings with convoluted routes, poor information on constantly changing timetables with excessive journey times - at one point it was possible to get off the 23 at Newstead and catch the preceding service to Stoke Station!

Bakers X1 was funded by London Midland, Staffordshire University and bus passenger revenues - hence it was cheaper than the dedicated rail only service. Current services are a mixture of Stoke-on-Trent City council funding (through developer contributions for Trentham Lakes), Staffordshire County Council funding (for local bus services the 13 replaced), London Midland funding (obviously for rail replacement), passengers revenues and possibly some developer funding via Staffs County for the residential development at Yarnfield (an hourly bus service was a requirement of the planning permission IIRC). What happens when that developer funding ends, and Staffs County abandon all bus subsidies is an interesting question.

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

Sorry may have missed the info on this thread but what services go via the chord weekdays cheers

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sorry may have missed the info on this thread but what services go via the chord weekdays cheers

According to RTT, LM Crewe-Euston services using P1 at Stafford (sometimes).
Nothing regular on the Down (LM Euston-Crewe goes via the flyover).

 

[mikestone1952]

Trains now seem from RTT to be using it more frequently, but erratically.
;
I though that it may be a case of either Crewe or Northampton crews now all OK (assuming that route knowledge was the problem) but trains showing NB times are not consistent

 

[Deafdoggie]

It gives a later departure from Stone to Norton Bridge. The last 13 service from Stone being at 1442, then the 14 service at 1632. I haven't checked the franchise specification but Norton Bridge ought to be served from both Stone and Stafford directions if the bus is to truly be a rail replacement service. Some might suggest, that to properly replace the rail service, the bus service should operate Stafford to Stoke (including Norton Bridge, Stone, Barlaston and Wedgwood) and sell rail tickets on board.

When BakerBus originally did the X1 replacement their timetables said, for some time, that they hoped to sell train tickets shortly. But it never happened. Essentially (it's slightly more complex than this of course) LM just give the council some money tell them to run buses to Wedgwood, Barlaston, Stone and Norton Bridge, and the council tender it as local bus service.

The local roads don't really lend themselves to a Stone-Norton Bridge bus. Certainly a route that did all the stations would be very long and unpopular.

Realistically Norton Bridge should be formally closed, and either of Wedgwood or Barlaston, whilst the other reopened. However, that would probably sound the deathknell for the local bus service, so the locals are quite happy with the way it is. After all, the OAPs don't get free train travel! The bus is actually more useful than a train! And it takes them to Stafford Sainsburys too, instead of just the station!