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The pre-1977 Glasgow Subway

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AY1975

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Mag_seven

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Not sure whether this belongs under Railway History & Nostalgia or Other Public Transport, but does anyone here remember travelling on the Glasgow Subway before it closed for modernisation in 1977?

There are threads on the present day Subway at www.railforums.co.uk/threads/glasgow-subway-trains-first-in-uk-to-run-with-no-staff-on-board.158919/ and www.railforums.co.uk/threads/glasgow-subway.160371/, but I couldn't find one on the pre-1977 Subway.

Yes I certainly remember travelling on it as a kid. Our nearest station was Bridge Street. The thing I remember most was the "shoogle" and of course the distinctive smell. I remember the little ticket offices that most stations had as well.
 

Journeyman

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Not sure whether this belongs under Railway History & Nostalgia or Other Public Transport, but does anyone here remember travelling on the Glasgow Subway before it closed for modernisation in 1977?

There are threads on the present day Subway at www.railforums.co.uk/threads/glasgow-subway-trains-first-in-uk-to-run-with-no-staff-on-board.158919/ and www.railforums.co.uk/threads/glasgow-subway.160371/, but I couldn't find one on the pre-1977 Subway.

My mother-in-law went to Uni in Glasgow in the sixties, and has fond memories of using it. I know a few other people who have used it too. There's a couple of good films of it, including one made by Glasgow and Strathclyde Universities in 1974. It was intended as a high-quality archival record for posterity, shot on 16mm film, and if you can find it on DVD it's well worth getting hold of. As well as everyday operations, there's a lot of stuff shot behind-the-scenes, with interviews too, and it makes you realise you're looking at a lost world - almost everyone on screen will be dead by now!

The old Glasgow Museum of Transport used to have an excellent replica of a Subway station featuring several vehicles and signage, clocks, furniture etc. from the old Merkland Street station. What the Riverside Museum have done with this exhibit makes my blood boil. :(

Best place to see an original Subway car these days is the Museum of Scottish Railways in Bo'ness - they have an original motor car that you can get inside.
 

Elwyn

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Yes I remember travelling on it many times. As others have said there was a very distinctive smell of earth and goodness knows what. Leather seats and it was quite noisy and creaky. You could stand at the end of the second carriage and look through the rear windows back down the line as the train went along. Some of the doors were just concertina metal gates so you could look through them and were very aware of the tunnel wall whizzing by. There was a pair of wires all along the far wall of the line. I never knew what they were for. Telephone wires perhaps.

I remember drunks staggering about the platform late at night. Tricky on a narrow island platform.

The trains were only painted on one side because it wasn’t possible for the public to see the other side. (Every station had an island platform). There were "last train" boards that were dropped down manually from some contraption above the platform when the last trains were about to run. Service stopped around 11.00pm.
 

Journeyman

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There was a pair of wires all along the far wall of the line. I never knew what they were for. Telephone wires perhaps.

Power supply for lighting, originally installed due to the trains being hauled by cable. The power was collected by a pair of skates on the side of the train. This system was also used to operate signalling, so it had to be retained after the trains were converted to electric operation in the 1930s. I think the trains were then unique in the world in requiring two completely separate electrical supplies to operate!

The trains were only painted on one side because it wasn’t possible for the public to see the other side. (Every station had an island platform).

The non-visible side was painted, but in a completely plain colour, simply to protect the bodywork. The car in the Museum of Scottish Railways is positioned so that you can see the "unpainted" side - it's dark red, I think something similar to the stuff they were always slapping on the Forth Bridge. You can also see the skates referred to above.
 

delt1c

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remember it well and others have described it well, one thing that sticks in my mind was the no spitting signs
 

hexagon789

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There's a couple of good films of it, including one made by Glasgow and Strathclyde Universities in 1974. It was intended as a high-quality archival record for posterity, shot on 16mm film, and if you can find it on DVD it's well worth getting hold of.

Video125 sell a copy of that one DVD, which I own! ;)

It's very interesting from a historical point of view. There are clips of the archive footage on YouTube as well.

There was a pair of wires all along the far wall of the line. I never

As mentioned they were for the interior lighting and also served as part of the signalling system - each station had a two-aspect red/green exit signal which protected entry to the section between there and the next station. There was an additional set protecting entry to the tunnel under the Clyde on both sides of the system where it passed under the river.

They were fitted with London Underground-style train stops.

Additionally, the lighting circuit worked as a telephone system, each driver carrying a handset issued to him at the beginning of his shift. If the train broke down he would rub a short-circuiting bar on the lighting circuit which would open a circuit breaker in the station and sound a siren. He could then clip on the 'phone and talk to a staff member at the next station! :lol:

remember it well and others have described it well, one thing that sticks in my mind was the no spitting signs

I think they used to have spittoons under the seats if I recall correctly.
 

Parham Wood

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In the late sixties when I visited the whole centre part of the city smelt of brewing and to my mind it was not the pleasant smell you can get from breweries but something rather less pleasant. I wonder if this was part of the smell on the subway.
 

hexagon789

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In the late sixties when I visited the whole centre part of the city smelt of brewing and to my mind it was not the pleasant smell you can get from breweries but something rather less pleasant. I wonder if this was part of the smell on the subway.

It still has a distinct "aroma"! You get a similar but not as strong one on the Low Level.
 

Taunton

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I too was in Glasgow in the years before it closed; thought I had written about it here before but seems not. The tunnels actually passed under the street where I lived near Hillhead. the stations are unrecognisable nowadays from then, the 1970s refurbishment was very thorough, although the architectural standard is extremely basic.

The ticketing was novel. Every station had a small manned ticket office which issued tickets from a similar machine to those at cinemas where they push forward across a small counter. Cars in the two coach sets had doors front and back. When you travelled, on exiting the guard stepped onto the platform at the midpoint and held out two hands to collect tickets from those from the back of the first car and the front of the second. The platform porter collected those at the rear, and those exiting at the front had to give tickets to the driver. Aslef would have had a fit!

There was just one train which had three cars, done as an experiment and just carried on, and that ran with a second guard because of the additional door.

By the end the wooden bodies were seriously dilapadated and the longitudinal seats could be seen to be coming away from the bodysides as the trains lurched along. I wouldn't be surprised to be told that the glass fell out of the windows occasionally.

There were no points at all, the depot was astride the tunnels at Ibrox with a big open shaft, and there was a large hoist which lifted the cars out and placed them on stub tracks up above. I don't know if there was space for them all, as otherwise the cars were stabled overnight in a long line in the tunnels either side of the depot. Service was necessarily at the same intervals all day long, but on Sundays was reduced, so on Saturday night several units were hoisted out, and on Sunday night put back down. The staff were well skilled in this and apparently (I never saw it) only took a couple of minuted to do so. If a car developed a defect in the day they could similarly be replaced by another in very short order, necessary of course if the trains behind were not to back up. I seem to recall there were about 11 trains on each circle on weekdays, and maybe 7 each circle on Sundays.

Signals were automatic 2-aspect, and signal sections were station to station. Trains didn't depart until the one in front had cleared the station platform ahead.

A lot of the staff at all grades seemed to be close to retirement by the 1970s, and I believe many had come from the tramways when they closed down, it being a somewhat easier environment than on buses. Being Glasgow, there were some oddball moments. A platform porter once sidled up to me waiting on an otherwise deserted platform at Kelvinbridge and just announced "Y'know, son, collie dogs are the best ...". I still don't know whether this was code for something!

Do I recall that the front motor unit was smoking, and the rear trailer was non-smoking?

one thing that sticks in my mind was the no spitting signs
Exactly the same was still above the front upstairs windows inside all Glasgow buses at the time.
 
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hexagon789

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I seem to recall there were about 11 trains on each circle on weekdays, and maybe 7 each circle on Sundays.

I'm sure I read in a book on the Glasgow Subway that frequency was 3.5 mins, with a full circle taking 28 mins pre-refurbishment that would be 8 trains in service.
 

Elwyn

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The little details take you back so well. Spittoons and ticket collection. For such a basic system, it was very atmospheric. Folk loved it. I remember the lift haulage at Ibrox. The trains slowed down when they went over it and there was a clunk, clunk over the joints.

I’d forgotten about spitting. As a student living in Byres Road (Hillhead was my station too) in 1971, I worked in a pub where we had to clean the spittoons twice a day after lunchtime and evening closing. And we had mutton pies that sat in a heated thing on the bar. Some of them were there for weeks on end. Health & Safety? Tell me about it.
 

Cowley

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Really enjoying reading this.
I only went on it once in the eighties, but it’s great to hear what it used to be like.
 

hexagon789

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Really enjoying reading this.
I only went on it once in the eighties, but it’s great to hear what it used to be like.

I far too young to have travelled on it in the old days, but archive footage makes it look so different and very atmospheric back in the 1970s. It's still unique and I think retains a hint of the original system.
 

GusB

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The ticketing was novel. Every station had a small manned ticket office which issued tickets from a similar machine to those at cinemas where they push forward across a small counter. Cars in the two coach sets had doors front and back. When you travelled, on exiting the guard stepped onto the platform at the midpoint and held out two hands to collect tickets from those from the back of the first car and the front of the second. The platform porter collected those at the rear, and those exiting at the front had to give tickets to the driver. Aslef would have had a fit!
I know this thread specifically refers to the period before 1977, but you mention ticket offices with similar equipment to those in cinemas. Did they still have ticket offices with these facilities in the early days of the "new" Glasgow Underground? I recall that my first journey on the system was part of a day out with my dad which took in the transport museum (Albert Street), Haggs Castle and the Kelvingrove Art Gallery. It must have been early eighties, and I must have been fairly knackered at the end of it!
 

Mag_seven

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Another memory had just come to mind - at the end of each platform was a little what I would describe as "bothy" where the platform attendant would be based. There were two lights above it one on each side which would illuminate when a train was approaching on the appropriate platform.
 

d9009alycidon

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I remember as a small boy being taken by my father to exhibitions at the Kelvin Hall, we would get the train to Queen Street Low Level then walk over to Buchanan Street, then get the Underground to Partick Cross - I remember being quite frightened about the experience:s.
There is a great song by Glasgow comedians "Francie and Josie" which rhymes off all the old station names with bits of comedy in between, can be watched here
Also - has anyone tried the Glasgow Underground Pub Crawl - get off at every station, go to nearest pub and sink a pint!
 

Traveller54

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[/QUOTE] I seem to recall there were about 11 trains on each circle on weekdays, and maybe 7 each circle on Sundays.
[/QUOTE]

I may be wrong, but I thought the system had never operated on Sundays till some years after it re opened after modernisation, it started initially for the benefit of Christmas shoppers on Sundays in December and eventually extended to year round.
 

Elwyn

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I used it a lot in the early 1970s and I think there were trains on a Sunday but they didn't start till around lunchtime. But I might be wrong about that.
 

Mag_seven

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I may be wrong, but I thought the system had never operated on Sundays till some years after it re opened after modernisation, it started initially for the benefit of Christmas shoppers on Sundays in December and eventually extended to year round.

I'm sure that pre-modernisation it did operate on Sundays and there was criticism that the modernised system when opened didn't.
 

Traveller54

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I'm sure that pre-modernisation it did operate on Sundays and there was criticism that the modernised system when opened didn't.

You’re probably right, I was rarely in Glasgow pre-modernisation and assumed that as it didn’t operate on Sundays immediately post-modernisation that it never had.
 

theageofthetra

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I find the old system fascinating to see old film of. The distinctive smell was apparently due to the whale oil used to lubricate the cables of the very early system.
 

92002

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My mother-in-law went to Uni in Glasgow in the sixties, and has fond memories of using it. I know a few other people who have used it too. There's a couple of good films of it, including one made by Glasgow and Strathclyde Universities in 1974. It was intended as a high-quality archival record for posterity, shot on 16mm film, and if you can find it on DVD it's well worth getting hold of. As well as everyday operations, there's a lot of stuff shot behind-the-scenes, with interviews too, and it makes you realise you're looking at a lost world - almost everyone on screen will be dead by now!

The old Glasgow Museum of Transport used to have an excellent replica of a Subway station featuring several vehicles and signage, clocks, furniture etc. from the old Merkland Street station. What the Riverside Museum have done with this exhibit makes my blood boil. :(

Best place to see an original Subway car these days is the Museum of Scottish Railways in Bo'ness - they have an original motor car that you can get inside.

The (new) Museum of Transport in Glasgow on the Riverside has an updated version of the old Glasgow Street. Complete with subway car that can be visited. There's not the room available for the one which was in the old museum, but still gives a good feel of the system and trains.
 

Journeyman

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The (new) Museum of Transport in Glasgow on the Riverside has an updated version of the old Glasgow Street. Complete with subway car that can be visited. There's not the room available for the one which was in the old museum, but still gives a good feel of the system and trains.

I think they've wrecked the subway exhibit, among very many other things that they've utterly ruined. Don't get me started.
 

341o2

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I remember a visit in the early 70's and noted the polished wood and that the car bodies would flex while running
 

Springs Branch

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I know that West St had a fish shop next to it - did it smell of fish I wonder?
The video (available on YouTube) made in the 1970s just before closure for modernisation, has an interview with that fishmonger.

He describes how whenever he smoked a batch of fish at his shop, the smoking smell would be drawn into the tunnels & he'd get comments from the Subway staff.

Imagine the pandemonium if somebody smelled smoke in Subway tunnels today.
 
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