The shambles that is LNWR on the WCML South

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by 8J, 4 Dec 2019.

  1. Sprinter107

    Sprinter107 Member

    Messages:
    301
    Joined:
    26 Mar 2019
    The guard may not have been notified that the train was to terminate early. We arent always told, until we get to the place where it's going to be caped.
     
  2. Silverlinky

    Silverlinky Member

    Messages:
    286
    Joined:
    3 Feb 2012
    Remedial measures......I think that's what they call it......and I believe that's what they're in!

    The ongoing industrial issues, the lack of overtime payment....the company used to pay "12" for lots of stuff but that has been scaled back as the wage bill is under the microscope from board level. As now is sickness and non-attendance.

    At the Southern end of the line there is a higher than average turnover of staff, some have left, a few going to Virgin or whatever its called now, I think they are losing drivers to East Midlands too, as well as a lot of retirements. There is at least one driver training course ongoing, maybe two, and some people have dates for a future course starting in January. But it takes 9-12 months for a Trainee Driver to make it to driver......and they can't seem to keep up with the amount of staff they are losing.
     
  3. Parham Wood

    Parham Wood Member

    Messages:
    190
    Joined:
    13 Jun 2011
    Maybe someone in charge of the rail industry ought to look at this training issue across all TOCs. If TOCs are training limited numbers of staff but making this up by "poaching" from other TOCs then this is obviously unfair and causes issues for passengers. Maybe some regulation can be brought in such that drivers cannot transfer until a certain period in a job even if they resign. This is a bit draconian and I would hope for a more amicable solution but clearly if not enough training is being done then it needs a national level overview, not that I have much confidence in those in charge to be able to resolve this.
     
  4. STKKK46

    STKKK46 Member

    Messages:
    293
    Joined:
    5 May 2010
    Location:
    Anywhere but here...
    WMT are actively recruiting for train crew. They can’t do any more than that.

    I think this board is a wonderful place, slagging WMT to the absolute maximum when a cancellation issue is a Conductor is late notice sickness.

    Hey if it went DOO that train would run.... but everyone wants to keep the guard on the train....

    Genuinely don’t understand what more people want them to do. Or maybe it’s just the popular bandwagon to jump on at the moment.
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    46,893
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    To plan and publish a timetable (an emergency timetable if necessary) which it is realistic to reliably and punctually (>95% as an absolute minimum) deliver using the staff and rolling stock they have available to them would be a start.

    LM was punctual and reliable give or take the odd bit of sloppy sub-10-minute late running in the evening peak. The day that new timetable came in the entire TOC fell completely to bits and has not recovered and shows no sign whatsoever of doing so.

    Have a nose at this:
    https://www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk/about-us/our-performance/train-performance

    Punctuality, using the 5 minute measure - 56.6%. That is, just under half of trains were over 5 minutes late. Half. I have never, ever seen such a poor performance in all my 40 years outside of the likes of strike action.

    Reliability - 18.3% of trains cancelled. That is nearly one in five. One in five. Again, even Central Trains didn't fail that badly, and they really were the pits.

    If they can't fix it, it's time for the franchise to be pulled. They do not deserve one penny of profit for such a grossly incompetent performance - and one they were warned about, so it's wilful incompetence, too.

    For a franchise like this both measures should be sitting above the 95% point, and LM largely was.
     
    Last edited: 9 Dec 2019
  6. Clarence Yard

    Clarence Yard Member

    Messages:
    1,103
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2014
    After my strong misgivings about this timetable, i’ve left it six months to see how it settled down. It hasn’t. In 42 years of travelling from Watford to Euston, i’ve never had to bail and get the Met home as much as I have had to in the last few months. It’s pathetic and some people need to go down the road for this and that is something I very rarely say. That is because they were warned that it wouldn’t work and they went ahead anyway.

    What to do? Don’t combine disparate service groups together, like Central Trains did in the 1990’s to disastrous effect.

    Don’t try and run your service with minimum stock, on minimum turnarounds, like Central Trains did in the 1990’s to disastrous effect.

    Don’t have your train crew running around like crazy, crewing multiple service groups, like Central Trains did in the 1990’s to disastrous effect.

    Don’t employ the planning genius whose party pieces are combining service groups, over optimising stock and over optimising train crew, just like he did on Central Trains in the 1990’s.

    Rule number 1 of running a London Commuter operation. When it goes Pete Tong you have your crew waiting for their train, not the other way round. Especially if they are stuck on Camden bank waiting for a vacant platform but the train they are due to take out is one of those that are stopping them getting in!

    Basic planning parameters ignored. Your base plan has to be robust to deal with some degree of delay. This timetable hasn’t got a chance of doing that and passengers are suffering unnecessarily as a result. Not remotely good enough.
     
  7. STKKK46

    STKKK46 Member

    Messages:
    293
    Joined:
    5 May 2010
    Location:
    Anywhere but here...
    Ah, is that right? I was unaware!!
     
  8. HowardGWR

    HowardGWR Established Member

    Messages:
    4,803
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2013
    Whenever I see a post from CY, I go straight to it. QED as they say.
     
  9. Grumpy Git

    Grumpy Git Member

    Messages:
    594
    Joined:
    13 Oct 2019
    Location:
    Earth (for now)
    A 350/1 on the 09.45 Liverpool South Parkway to Euston this morning,

    .......why?
     
  10. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    46,893
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Why not? You'd complain if it was a /2.
     
  11. Grumpy Git

    Grumpy Git Member

    Messages:
    594
    Joined:
    13 Oct 2019
    Location:
    Earth (for now)
    Sorry, I'm getting my trains mixed-up! I did the same on another thread earlier!

    It would have been a 350/2 if I was catching it. ;)
     
  12. Merle Haggard

    Merle Haggard Member

    Messages:
    273
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2019
    Location:
    Northampton
    I noticed this poster at Milton Keynes Central today. It wasn't positioned in a very visible position, possibly out of shame.
    Note that the message is that 'We were trying too hard!'
    Delays never caused by no train crew available, evidently...


    LNwR.jpg ...
     
  13. ian959

    ian959 Member

    Messages:
    469
    Joined:
    9 May 2009
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Is it just my perception or have the problems with the LM/LNWR franchise been getting progressively worse since they started operating to Liverpool?
     
  14. gazzaa2

    gazzaa2 Member

    Messages:
    316
    Joined:
    2 May 2018
    Since they extended the Lime Street-New Street to Euston it's got bad. As a fairly regular user of the Liverpool-New Street service it's completely ruined that service as well, it used to run generally well enough, it doesn't even start from Lime Street half the time now with cancellations and delays.

    A complete botch up.
     
  15. Silverlinky

    Silverlinky Member

    Messages:
    286
    Joined:
    3 Feb 2012
    In May 2020 they will pretty much go back to the old timetable with no joining and dividing of trains at New Street, this will solve a lot of the issues.

    They are giving all season ticket holders a 3% discount on the cost of their new season tickets for next year, which negates the 2.8% fare increase planned for January. So commuters will see prices fall in real terms for the first time in a long time! There will also be some sort of Summer off peak deal for leisure travellers.
     
  16. bramling

    bramling Established Member

    Messages:
    7,275
    Joined:
    5 Mar 2012
    Location:
    Hertfordshire / Teesdale
    It’s all very well giving discounts, but this doesn’t help people get to and from where they need to be *now*.

    X percent off a season ticket doesn’t make up for hours of people’s lives that they won’t get back, and an off-peak deal seems more about driving up discretionary demand rather than making it up to regular users.

    This farce was entirely predictable, and quite simply shouldn’t have happened. Something has gone wrong with the industry’s setup that such a timetable could have got through the planning process and become reality.
     
  17. hwl

    hwl Established Member

    Messages:
    5,047
    Joined:
    5 Feb 2012
    Effectively copying the Govia bid plan but DfT preferred the Abellio joined up service approach as it sounded better for users.

    May be time to bring Govia back as they actually understand practical reality unlike Abellio bid teams...
     
  18. bramling

    bramling Established Member

    Messages:
    7,275
    Joined:
    5 Mar 2012
    Location:
    Hertfordshire / Teesdale
    There does seem to be a theme with Abellio going for headline deliverables. But equally there’s a theme of DFT approving it.

    The GA total fleet replacement was a case in point. In this industry change is best delivered on an incremental basis, not by wading in like a bull in a china shop.
     
  19. gazzaa2

    gazzaa2 Member

    Messages:
    316
    Joined:
    2 May 2018
    The problem with things like this is the trains are already packed out at the weekends and you end up stood up through a journey when half the people have sat down have paid a pittance.
     
  20. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    46,893
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    I believe May will retain the through Liverpools, though. They need to go too.
     
  21. FlashingYellows

    FlashingYellows On Moderation

    Messages:
    48
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2013
    This is the free market so many are in favour of. There's a simple way to keep staff, but the usual suspects won't like that.
     
  22. Elecman

    Elecman Established Member

    Messages:
    1,932
    Joined:
    31 Dec 2013
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Could be sorted by writing into new trainees contract that they stay with the relevant operator for 5-7 years or pay back a sliding % of the training costs
     
  23. FlashingYellows

    FlashingYellows On Moderation

    Messages:
    48
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2013
    Why do so many people think that train drivers should be exempt from normal practice? If someone wants to give them better conditions or more money then it is up to them if they choose to take up the offer. Why is it any different than any other job?

    Stop them striking, tie them to contracts, make them work overtime and on and on, it's tiresome.
     
  24. 43074

    43074 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,628
    Joined:
    10 Oct 2012
    Yes virtually the same has happened with East Midlands regional services, abandoning the Norwich to Matlock idea has resulted in a solution very similar to the Arriva bid being proposed...
     
  25. gazzaa2

    gazzaa2 Member

    Messages:
    316
    Joined:
    2 May 2018
    Ludicrous. It's been an unmitigated disaster.
     
  26. setdown

    setdown Member

    Messages:
    74
    Joined:
    5 Jan 2016
    I notice that on Sundays since the December timetable change, the Liverpool to Euston trains are now 8-coaches throughout, without any joining/splitting. The reliability seemed to be ok yesterday, so maybe that’s something they can bring to the midweek services too?

    It must be said that this has resulted in 8-car working on Sunday services between Crewe and Liverpool, a massive improvement considering the last services used to be full and standing.
     
  27. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,783
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    Is it known in any detail what the Govia bid included for WCML services?
     
  28. Merle Haggard

    Merle Haggard Member

    Messages:
    273
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2019
    Location:
    Northampton
    Travelling to Northampton of an evening occasionally, I gave up on the 1752 fast; although it's 12 coaches, the last time I caught it, it was full and very standing - the front first class had about 8 standing - and its platform was announced only about 5 minutes before departure time.
    So tonight, I went for the 1753 all stations, 12 car (319s). Euston concourse was jammed with people waiting for the announcement of platforms for LNwR services - so jammed that it was very difficult to move towards the barriers.
    The platform for the 1753 was announced at 1751, meaning that by the time the barriers were reached the conductor was blowing his whistle.
    According to Open train Times, the 1753 Northampton departure is formed of the (booked) 1750 arrival from Tring.
    3 x 319 has around 900 seats, and it was about 2/3rds full. About 600 people given 2 minutes notice of their train's platform The inwards train was quite busy too.
    Is this rapid loading of customers planned to happen anywhere else?
     
  29. Scott M

    Scott M Member

    Messages:
    330
    Joined:
    14 Aug 2014
    Always cancellations due to lack of train crew over Christmas, is code word for staff don’t want to do overtime over Christmas.
     
  30. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    46,893
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Euston platforming is quite consistent and there's RTT, so a very significant number of people will already be on the correct platform long before they can be bothered to put it on the PIS.

    But the answer is yes - on exactly the same units on Thameslink platforms in one minute, not three.

    And in any case it's booked in at 1741, not 1750. It was nine minutes late:
    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/EUS/2020-01-21/1753
     

Share This Page