The state of Northerns stock

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wintonian

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Can anyone shed any light on why during my week up north the most pleasant Northern train I have been on is an ex FGW pacer?

When compared to TPE's 185s they are quite frankly embarrassing for Northern and even when taking like for like and comparing then with FGWs sprinters.

What is their maintenance policy? - Take them back to the depot each night and ruff them up a bit more ready for the morning? ;)

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Can anyone shed any light on why during my week up north the most pleasant Northern train I have been on is an ex FGW pacer?

When compared to TPE's 185s they are quite frankly embarrassing for Northern and even when taking like for like and comparing then with FGWs sprinters.

What is their maintenance policy? - Take them back to the depot each night and ruff them up a bit more ready for the morning? ;)

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You mean unpleasent?


Do they still have FGW seat upholstery?

They are the better ones. Northern ex North Western 153s and ex Northern Spirit 156s and 142s plus ex Wales and West/Central 158s are in the most need of TLC IMO
 

yorksrob

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I was on an ex EMT 150 a couple of days ago which had already had Northern upholstery fitted !

Luck of the draw I'm afraid. Some refurbed units are quite nice (moreso at the start of the day) whilst others are looking "tired".
 

Yew

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Hopefully the next franchise will have enough cash to do a major refurb on northerns sprinters.. It's a shame when you compare northerns supers/expresses with other toc's versions of the same trains...
 

yorksrob

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Hopefully the next franchise will have enough cash to do a major refurb on northerns sprinters.. It's a shame when you compare northerns supers/expresses with other toc's versions of the same trains...
In my view, new seating for some of the Pacers should be priority (assuming that they're probably going to be with us for a while anyway). Most of the sprinters could probably get away with a decent refresh IMO - although the 158 toilets need doing properly.
 

WestCoast

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In my view, new seating for some of the Pacers should be priority (assuming that they're probably going to be with us for a while anyway)..
Starting with the 142s that were refurbished to "Merseytravel standards", which are commonly found west of the Pennines. That '80s song "solid, solid as a rock" always come to mind with the seating (and legroom) on those units!
 

wintonian

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You mean unpleasent?


Do they still have FGW seat upholstery?

They are the better ones. Northern ex North Western 153s and ex Northern Spirit 156s and 142s plus ex Wales and West/Central 158s are in the most need of TLC IMO
No I do not mean unpleasant. :)

In terms of condition at least they are far superior to Northerns l, and why does there refurbishment spec consist just a bit of badly fitting sticky back plastic on the dropdown table? Or have they not refurbished at all?

Am I perhaps expecting too muc? I know I am spoilt with the level of.service we have down here, but every other TOC I have experienced, from FGW to SR to ATW and even Southend stock IMO isn't as shabby.

Yes they do still have FGW upholstery and pink grab rails.

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Yew

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I didn't suggest a pacer refurbishment, as I would be worried that could make replacement less of a priority. 150 s should be fitted with 2+2 chapmans, and 156/8s refreshed to get rid of the 'BR beige' paint inside
 

WestCoast

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Am I perhaps expecting too muc? I know I am spoilt with the level of.service we have down here, but every other TOC I have experienced, from FGW to SR to ATW and even Southend stock IMO isn't as shabby.
Well, when regular Northern passengers are told about "the vast amounts of new rolling stock that privatisation has brought", it does raise a few eyebrows sometimes!

It was quite funny when the BBC ran that piece about SWT 450s being completely unsuitable for an hour and a half journey! And no, the fares outside of PTE areas on Northern aren't exactly 'cheap' as is often banded around.
 

Miken

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There's a lot about Northern that sets it apart from all of the others...

Whilst there are a few units relatively pleasant to travel on most of them are in a disgusting state, shabby, often filthy and cold!

Customer service is a joke - you call them and they are immediately defensive and more often than not are rude. I emailed the CEO once about this and was totally ignored.

On the positive side, Northern have a lot of good on-train staff - this also applies to the ticketing staff (I'm surprised a company with such badly managed assets keeps such dedicated staff frankly!). Barrier staff are in a different league though... rather akin to nightclub bouncers I find them intimidating, and generally rude.

It's one franchise I'd dearly love to see change hands and get new Leadership (the problem clearly lies with the Leadership of the Organisation).
 

wintonian

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450's are fine for that IMO and slower stopping services on the SML but I wouldn't have them do Weymouth to Waterloo unless there was a stock shortage.

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wintonian

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There's a lot about Northern that sets it apart from all of the others...

Whilst there are a few units relatively pleasant to travel on most of them are in a disgusting state, shabby, often filthy and cold!

Customer service is a joke - you call them and they are immediately defensive and more often than not are rude. I emailed the CEO once about this and was totally ignored.

On the positive side, Northern have a lot of good on-train staff - this also applies to the ticketing staff (I'm surprised a company with such badly managed assets keeps such dedicated staff frankly!). Barrier staff are in a different league though... rather akin to nightclub bouncers I find them intimidating, and generally rude.

It's one franchise I'd dearly love to see change hands and get new Leadership (the problem clearly lies with the Leadership of the Organisation).
I agree the guards on Northern do seem quite good and some of them a quite friendly too.

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ainsworth74

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Barrier staff are in a different league though... rather akin to nightclub bouncers I find them intimidating, and generally rude.
Depending on the location their is a chance that they're G4S staff dressed up to look like Northern staff when actually they have nothing to do with Northern directly.
 

wbbminerals

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The worst thing about Northern's units is the dirty windows - some of the 150s are awful. But it is also true that Northern tend to have friendly guards.
 

Lampshade

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Barrier staff are in a different league though... rather akin to nightclub bouncers I find them intimidating, and generally rude.
Your location suggests you've been encountering G4S staff in Northern uniforms; they've barely got a brain cell between them and can't tell a ticket from their own backside.

Northern Guards however are some of the best in the business.
 

AlanFry1

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Northern should order 60 Class 172's to take over the routes run by Class 150, Northern's Class 150 fleet (along with a further 42 Class 172) will in turn replace the pacer fleet
 

Lampshade

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It is the government the provides the cash

Why should the North de denied the right to new trains?
I quote Theresa Villiers:

Now I know that talking about rolling stock in the north of England can be risky if you’re the rail minister.

I know that many passengers would like to see the Pacers heading into retirement.

But you here in this room will know that building a business case for new rolling stock is always going to be difficult when fares in much of the north of England lag so very far behind the rest of the country.
Northern PTE fares are on a par with London Midland PTE fares yet LM get new stock aplenty. Northern non-PTE fares are on a par with Southeastern's standard fares, yet they get new stock aplenty.

Think of all those Labour safe seats though, why would a Conservative government fund replacement stock?
 

AlanFry1

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I quote Theresa Villiers:



Northern PTE fares are on a par with London Midland PTE fares yet LM get new stock aplenty. Northern non-PTE fares are on a par with Southeastern's standard fares, yet they get new stock aplenty.

Think of all those Labour safe seats though, why would a Conservative government fund replacement stock?
So that they could vote Tory?
 
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