The state of Northerns stock

[AlanFry1]

Is that in addition to the 60 class 170s you wanted earlier in the thread? I think you need a reality check.

Yes, but the trouble is the government will just not invest what is needed

 

[ukrob]

Yes, but the trouble is the government will just not invest what is needed

110 class 170 and 172s are not needed for Northern. More electrification and electric stock is needed.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

110 class 170 and 172s are not needed for Northern. More electrification and electric stock is needed.

And where can we get that electrification from? It's going to cost a fair amount but if there is a line that would warrant electric, then feel free to state it.

 

[175001]

Excuse Me? Myself and the vast majority of my colleagues do care, but what are we supposed to do? We do our very best with some of the oldest stock in the country, seems you have an axe to grind with Northern or its staff.

We certainly do, don't we! I'm proud of what I do, even when it seems Doomsday is happening around me on my 142

 

[ainsworth74]

And where can we get that electrification from? It's going to cost a fair amount but if there is a line that would warrant electric, then feel free to state it.

Harrogate loop, Sheffield - Wakefield (via Swinton), possibly Penistone and Hope Valley, Saltburn - Darlington to name a few lines that spring to mind.

 

[507 001]

I have the misfortune to travel on Northern's trains on a variety of routes on a regular basis. Whilst it is true that they do have some "nice" trains with clean and well maintained interiors, sadly it is also true that the vast majority of Northern's stock is quite disgusting.

Forgetting pacers for one minute, all of the 158s are very tatty, filthy inside and out and have disgustingly tatty and smelly toilets - even when clean. The various cheap refurb jobs have produced a variety of different seat cushions with ill fitting and badly installed seat covers, many of which are coming off. The carpets (what remains of them) are threadbare and in places the floor underneath can be seen. Some of the carpets are central, some wales and west, and some still regional railways. Compared to the refurb jobs on other TOCs units, they are a disgrace. Oh yes and most of the air con is defective.

The 156s which were once nice trains are also disgusting, although they have started a bit of a refurb job on them recently and the refurbished ones aren't too bad - at the moment.

As Northern's cleaning standards are virtually non existent and just seem to involve a litter pick and that is it (even overnight) then it won't be long till they are horrible too. I have not been on one 156 with working heating for a year or so.

The 333's whilst relatively new are getting in need of a freshen up, but overall aren't too bad.

The 150s vary considerably. The ex LM 150's are significantly and noticeably cleaner and in better condition than the Northern 150s. Despite the fact the ex LM units retain their original brown interior and old floor, and in many cases their central seats, they are overall far nicer to travel on - you stand less chance of soiling your clothes on them.

The 144s are quite clean and well looked after. In general the 142s are not, although the ones which have returned from FGW and still retain their FGW seats are noticeably cleaner and better maintained overall.

There are a number of reasons for this. Firstly the quality of overnight cleaning at many locations is poor. This means that trains enter service already a bit dirty. Over time this builds up and they just look tatty no matter what time of the day it is. Secondly The refurb jobs that most units have had is a cheap and cheerful one mainly consisting of poorly fitted seat covers which fall off and look tatty. Nothing else has really been touched. Many units have not been touched throughout the life of the franchise and are very tired indeed. Thirdly, maintenance standards of cosmetic items seem poor and many things seem bodged.

While it is true that many of the trains are old, that is no excuse. Old trains can be just as clean and presentable as newer trains if they get the right treatment. I find it is often better to avoid sitting too close to the walls or putting feat underneath seats as you can quite easily end up soiling your clothes.

What a load of c***. Somebody obviously likes to exaggerate!
I will agree that northerns stock is tatty but it certainly isn't so dirty that you would ruin your clothes!
What people like you forget is what went before. Northerns stock is by far and away cleaner and tidier than it ever was under first north western, and some of the ATN pacers and sprinters weren't exactly pleasant either!
But of course, NXEA are gone now and we need somebody to bash constantly don't we. Obviously its northerns turn!

 

[driver9000]

It's the whole route from Rose Grove/Gannow Junction to Hall Royd Junction.

It's a combination of weight - Sprinters and Pacers can do 45mph whereas everything else is 25mph, and the fact the line has not seen any notable upgrades since it was freight-only. In contrast, the Calder Valley line has no such restrictions.

I think you are confusing SP/MU speeds with ordinary differentials. Gannow junction-Hall Royd Junction is 25/45, 25/40 and 25/30 with no letters. The Sectional appendix specifies the speeds as 25mph for class 7 & 8 trains and 30/40/45mph for class 1 to 6 and light locomotives. 185s are permitted at the higher speed. The 185 is cleared for the East Lancashire lines with the only noted restriction being at Blackburn which has a prohibition for platform 3.
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I cannot wait until a massive football match with PNE vs a team which would use Platforms 1 and 2.

Large football crowds have been seen coming from/going to platforms 1 & 2 at Preston and they are managed adequately by the BTP. It is not an unusual event.

 

[PR1Berske]

What a load of c***. Somebody obviously likes to exaggerate!
I will agree that northerns stock is tatty but it certainly isn't so dirty that you would ruin your clothes!
What people like you forget is what went before. Northerns stock is by far and away cleaner and tidier than it ever was under first north western, and some of the ATN pacers and sprinters weren't exactly pleasant either!
But of course, NXEA are gone now and we need somebody to bash constantly don't we. Obviously its northerns turn!

Oh I will never tire of bashing Northern

I took one of the ex-Midland trains this morning into Manchester from Preston. A young child - about 4 or 5 - tried to sit down opposite me, only for the cushion to come away from the seat and for him to fall into a crying, potentially injured heap on the floor

The floor - by the way - which was covered in water and muddy footprints

Northern are a shameful mess of a company and I cannot wait for their franchise to be taken away.

There is nothing - nothing - positive to say about Northern.

 

[ukrob]

I suppose it was Northern who put the muddy footprints there too?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Oh I will never tire of bashing Northern

I took one of the ex-Midland trains this morning into Manchester from Preston. A young child - about 4 or 5 - tried to sit down opposite me, only for the cushion to come away from the seat and for him to fall into a crying, potentially injured heap on the floor

The floor - by the way - which was covered in water and muddy footprints

Northern are a shameful mess of a company and I cannot wait for their franchise to be taken away.

There is nothing - nothing - positive to say about Northern.

Ahh one of the units we have had for how long? You certainly like to exagerrate, yes our units are tatty and they could do with being cleaned more regularly but they are nowhere near as bad as you suggest, maybe you should try taking the bus?

 

[tony_mac]

What a load of c***. Somebody obviously likes to exaggerate!
I will agree that northerns stock is tatty but it certainly isn't so dirty that you would ruin your clothes!
What people like you forget is what went before. Northerns stock is by far and away cleaner and tidier than it ever was under first north western, and some of the ATN pacers and sprinters weren't exactly pleasant either!
But of course, NXEA are gone now and we need somebody to bash constantly don't we. Obviously its northerns turn!

I thought it was a perfectly reasonable post, and mirrored my experiences.

Regardless of how it used to be, I find Northern's stock is generally much dirtier than any other train that I travel on. There are areas that obviously aren't cleaned at all, and contact with those certainly could ruin your clothes.

 

[WestCoast]

Northern are a shameful mess of a company and I cannot wait for their franchise to be taken away.

There is nothing - nothing - positive to say about Northern.

I presume you remember First North Western and how much better they were? :roll:

Make sure you exclude the FNW 175s on the likes of Manchester Airport - Blackpool North/Barrow/Windermere as they form part of the First TPE franchise nowadays.

I have something positive to say about Northern - their staff!

 

[cuccir]

Today I travelled on a 156 (I think) from Whitby to Middlesborough. The train wasn't the most comfortable. It was a quick turn around so it hadn't been cleaned, but I wouldn't describe it as messy, but not clean.

But, and here is the key - I paid £3.50 for a 90 minute journey with my railcard; my travelling partner paid £5.10.

Now those are particularly low fares even for the Northern area, and I presume are subsidised to some extent by the local council, and the fact it must be a pretty easy and cheap line to run? Nonetheless, the low prices of fares in the North are clearly related to the quality of stock available to Northern.

 

[507 001]

Oh I will never tire of bashing Northern

I took one of the ex-Midland trains this morning into Manchester from Preston. A young child - about 4 or 5 - tried to sit down opposite me, only for the cushion to come away from the seat and for him to fall into a crying, potentially injured heap on the floor

The floor - by the way - which was covered in water and muddy footprints

Northern are a shameful mess of a company and I cannot wait for their franchise to be taken away.

There is nothing - nothing - positive to say about Northern.

Well aren't you mature, they are doing the best with what they have, the stock is old, the franchise is let on a no growth basis (you can blame the government for that). But hand on, of course, northern are to blame for London Midlands shortcomings too are they(you know considering they have only had the ex LM sprinters for oooh lets see, 3 months? and they are in a que of how many units that need attention?)? And of course we all know that they are clearly responsible for the rain and where people choose to walk before they board the train.

Thing is, children are fairly bouncy, I'm pretty certain that falling all of 1.5 feet from chair to floor is not going to hurt them too much, especially when they spend the majority of their time falling over anyway, so to say "potentially injured" is ridiculous.

I think you need to grow up tbh. :roll:

Cushions do become loose, litter does accumulate, things do get a little dirty and tired if there has been no money available for major refurbs, but to say that the stock is so dirty that you won't sit near a wall is pathetic. I have never, NEVER (even in Bad, bad, bad FNW days) been on a train that I felt was that dirty. :roll:

I have something positive to say about Northern - their staff!

Hear Hear!

 

[WestCoast]

Nonetheless, the low prices of fares in the North are clearly related to the quality of stock available to Northern.

Trouble is, many Northern users don't have access to such low fares, so to be told "you can't have new trains, because your fares are so cheap" is a bit of a kick in the teeth. Especially as LM PTE fares are on a par with Northern and they have new stock aplenty.

I mean it's £6.40 Anytime Single / £7.10 Anytime Day Return (no off-peak fares) on my commute in Lancashire - a 22 minutes (13 miles) journey. Hardly out of line with the rest of the network is it?

 

[YorkshireBear]

There is nothing - nothing - positive to say about Northern.

Your not going to make many friends on this forum insulting staff like that. I cant wait to see when you realise during the next franchise that this is how it has to be. Northern have to run a very intensive service across a huge geographical area with small units and have to do it as cheaply as possible to stop your taxes being spent uneccesarily. (i dont care about their profits and being a private company etc at end of day they deserve a profit for running something the government do not want to)
Did you know that northern complete more services before 7 am than east coast run in a day?
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I have something positive to say about Northern - their staff!

+1.. and i imagine many more agree.

 

[507 001]

I mean it's £6.40 Anytime Single / £7.10 Anytime Day Return (no off-peak fares) on my commute in Lancashire - a 22 minutes (13 miles) journey. Hardly out of line with the rest of the network is it?

A return from Huyton to Manchester is now £12.90 and a single £9.90, I could drive both ways to eccles and jump a tram into the centre of the city for less than that I reckon.

Your not going to make many friends on this forum insulting staff like that.

Something tells me its not his intention to make friends tbh.

 

[cuccir]

Trouble is, many Northern users don't have access to such low fares, so to be told "you can't have new trains, because your fares are so cheap" is a bit of a kick in the teeth. Especially as LM PTE fares are on a par with Northern and they have new stock aplenty.

I mean it's £6.40 Anytime Single / £7.10 Anytime Day Return (no off-peak fares) on my commute in Lancashire - a 22 minutes (13 miles) journey. Hardly out of line with the rest of the network is it?

Fair enough I suppose - my main experience of Northern is on their North East/Cumbrian lines (have lived in North East for a while, and have lots of family in Cumbria), and their Preston-Leeds line, all of which are very cheap

 

[PR1Berske]

A return from Huyton to Manchester is now £12.90 and a single £9.90, I could drive both ways to eccles and jump a tram into the centre of the city for less than that I reckon.



Something tells me its not his intention to make friends tbh.

Well, quite, this isn't Plenty Of Fish or Facebook. Specifically, it's a thread called "The state of Northern's stock", so those of us who suffer from using them have every right to complain.
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I thought it was a perfectly reasonable post, and mirrored my experiences.

Regardless of how it used to be, I find Northern's stock is generally much dirtier than any other train that I travel on. There are areas that obviously aren't cleaned at all, and contact with those certainly could ruin your clothes.

Have you ever used the Preston - Ormskirk carriage? Always covered in dirt and rubbish, and often smells of severe damp.


Awful.

 

[507 001]

Well, quite, this isn't Plenty Of Fish or Facebook. Specifically, it's a thread called "The state of Northern's stock", so those of us who suffer from using them have every right to complain.

Ahem, I wasn't saying it was, all I was saying is that its nice to have a friendly atmosphere, even in an online environment.

Have you actually looked at my location? I DO use them FREQUENTLY. I DO see what is wrong with them, and I KNOW that it aint half as bad as you make out, as near enough everybody else on this forum agrees. By all means complain about what isn't right, and there is a lot with Northerns stock that isn't right (mostly not their fault though), but don't exaggerate, especially in a place full of people who actually know what they're talking about because you'll just make yourself look a twonk.

As somebody else said earlier, maybe you would prefer to take the bus?

 

[WestCoast]

Fair enough I suppose - my main experience of Northern is on their North East/Cumbrian lines (have lived in North East for a while, and have lots of family in Cumbria), and their Preston-Leeds line, all of which are very cheap

It certainly varies, some lines are cheaper than others due to various subsidies from PTE or local authorities, but in other areas this is very much not the case (many short-distance fares in non-PTE areas of Cheshire and Lancashire being examples). It's not really consistent, but that's why I object to the previous transport minister stating cheap fares as some sort of blanket excuse for lack of new stock.

 

[507 001]

Have you ever used the Preston - Ormskirk carriage? Always covered in dirt and rubbish, and often smells of severe damp.


Awful.

Maybe you have you nose too near your..... no I won't go there.

 

[PR1Berske]

Maybe you have you nose too near your..... no I won't go there.

Oh very mature.

Going "there" seems to be exactly your level.

 

[WestCoast]

Have you ever used the Preston - Ormskirk carriage? Always covered in dirt and rubbish, and often smells of severe damp.


Awful.

I have used this route a number of times, on a 142 and a 153. Haven't personally noticed any of their trains to be that dirty - certainly no worse than many buses I've used. The rubbish has been left by passengers anyway, who could have refrained for littering!

To be honest, these are all cosmetic things and could be rectified quite easily. It's certainly not a reason to strip Northern of their franchise.

 

[507 001]

Maybe you have you nose too near your..... no I won't go there.

Oh very mature.

Going "there" seems to be exactly your level.

Oh so you are being serious? I genuinely thought you must be joking considering the bile that is coming out of your keyboard. I was obviously mistaken.

I never claimed to be mature so your insult is worthless. I could however say that you are immature considering twas you who resorted to name calling.

Now I am off to bed. Thank you for the entertainment and goodnight. I shall check to see whether you have stopped spewing rubbish in the morning.

 

[Blindtraveler]

i am disgusted at some of things said by some people in this thread. If a mod sees this I think the thread should be locked as insults and nastyness are unwelcome. Northerns staff are true pros and although they have a hard job Iv never have a problem with them!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

i am disgusted at some of things said by some people in this thread. If a mod sees this I think the thread should be locked as insults and nastyness are unwelcome. Northerns staff are true pros and although they have a hard job Iv never have a problem with them!

As long as I know I have done my best during my shift - really couldn't care less what some people think of me, I get plenty more thankyous then I get complaints so I am happy with that.

 

[markydh]

Northern's staff are generally very friendly (though I'd question the professionalism of those who work on the Morecambe branch as you rarely see them check tickets - yes, we all know the ticket machines are heaps of junk). Northern as a company are, however, abysmal. As for the terms of their franchise, they share equal blame with the government on that front (actually, their franchise was let by the Strategic Rail Authority) given their no growth, spend very little and get away with as little as possible franchise bid was accepted.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

As long as I know I have done my best during my shift - really couldn't care less what some people think of me, I get plenty more thankyous then I get complaints so I am happy with that.

you and your fellow guards do a great job at Northern.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As long as I know I have done my best during my shift - really couldn't care less what some people think of me, I get plenty more thankyous then I get complaints so I am happy with that.

oh believe me you and others do a great job and are true railwaymen and women. As for yourself in particular you stand out on the forum as someone who tells it like it is and is genuine as are the overall majoritty of staff members on here and your firmly on my list of people id like to meet! Keep it up, and thanks.