Onllwyn 110mph Test Track & Rail Technology Centre.

[Gareth Marston]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44575812

Plans for a £100m rail testing complex to work on next generation train technology have been revealed in south Wales.

It is at an early stage but it could be built on the site of a mothballed opencast mine in Neath Port Talbot.

Transport Secretary Ken Skates said he wants Wales to become a "major hub" for the UK and European rail industry

Having decided that funding a circuit for motor manufactures and racing cars testing up in the Heads of the Valleys was too risky Welsh Government have decide that funding a train test facility up in the Heads of the Valleys isn't.

 

[gazthomas]

I saw this, BBC clearly haven't heard of Old Dalby/Ashfordby test centre

I'm not sure they're proposing a location in the valleys, this looks like it would be near the coast and therefore flatter?

 

[twpsaesneg]

I saw this, BBC clearly haven't heard of Old Dalby/Ashfordby test centre

I'm not sure they're proposing a location in the valleys, this looks like it would be near the coast and therefore flatter?

Nant Helen Opencast - Western Valleys and very much not flat!

https://goo.gl/maps/KU2M7Xwuq6t

Google Map linky

 

[gazthomas]

Nant Helen Opencast - Western Valleys and very much not flat!

https://goo.gl/maps/KU2M7Xwuq6t

Google Map linky

Now that does surprise me!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Skates is spinning the line their is a need for this sort of facility in the UK.

The similarities with the now defunct "Circuit of Wales" proposal are rather numerous hence my thread title...

 

[Gareth Marston]

Nant Helen Opencast - Western Valleys and very much not flat!

https://goo.gl/maps/KU2M7Xwuq6t

Google Map linky

round and round a waste tip at near 1000 feet up!

 

[squizzler]

round and round a waste tip at near 1000 feet up!

Maybe it will be laid at 600mm gauge and provide a representative testing environment for the Ffestiniog, Welsh highland, Vale of Rheidol and Brecon Mountain Railways to shake down new trains before going into service?

 

[steevp]

I am surprised that this particular site has been chosen - surely if they laid it from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth it would kill two birds with one stone?
(I'll get my coat)

 

[gazthomas]

I am surprised that this particular site has been chosen - surely if they laid it from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth it would kill two birds with one stone?
(I'll get my coat)

An inspired suggestion!

 

[squizzler]

It has apparently taken so long for the Welsh Government to get over its highway obsession so let's not look a gift horse in the mouth.

I for one welcome our Cardiff Bay overlords' newfound madness for all things rail!

 

[gazthomas]

It has apparently taken so long for the Welsh Government to get over its highway obsession so let's not look a gift horse in the mouth.

I for one welcome our Cardiff Bay overlords' newfound madness for all things rail!

Now that the tidal project has been kiboshed this might be their new pet project

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Has anybody asked for a rail proving circuit?
Are we expecting a torrent of new designs that need endurance testing?
Everybody seems to go to Velim (CZ), and Siemens has Wildenrath.
I don't think Hitachi has used a UK facility, but it now has the Pistoia facilities in Italy.
Network Rail has Old Dalby and the High Marnham line for testing, but neither are circuits.
If CAF has said they want one for Newport-built trains they will have to fund it themselves.

The BBC said it was "on the borders of Powys".
I missed the "and Neath/Port Talbot" bit, so had visions of a track on MoD land somewhere near Llanymynych!
That would have brought the old Cambrian back to life.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Has anybody asked for a rail proving circuit?
Are we expecting a torrent of new designs that need endurance testing?
Everybody seems to go to Velim (CZ), and Siemens has Wildenrath.
I don't think Hitachi has used a UK facility, but it now has the Pistoia facilities in Italy.
Network Rail has Old Dalby and the High Marnham line for testing, but neither are circuits.
If CAF has said they want one for Newport-built trains they will have to fund it themselves.

The BBC said it was "on the borders of Powys".
I missed the "and Neath/Port Talbot" bit, so had visions of a track on MoD land somewhere near Llanymynych!
That would have brought the old Cambrian back to life.

No known demand given other facilities but of course it ticks the doing or seeing to be doing something in the Valleys box plus it's outside the South Wales Metro area.

There were circular circuits off the old Potts (Shropshire and Montgomeryshire) but most were actually in England or on the border. It was Admiralty that used it there were stocks by the acre of 15" gun shells long After the Battleship era was over. The radio masts at Criggion played a big role in the Cold War.

 

[MarkyT]

Here (in blue) is a 7.5km level oval I identified above Onllwyn at an altitude of 245m circumnavigating the hill into which the opencast is cut and partly using the pit to pass through the hill. Some tunnelling would be required and the curve radius would be approx 750m, which might allow something like the target 160kph continuous running speed if heavily canted. The test track could be connected to the Onllwyn branch via an incline and the washery sidings might be used as an operations base. A 3.5km (yellow) circle is shown at a higher altitude of approx 260m with radius of about 600m. That would require some significant excavations into the hill possibly including more tunnelling to stay level and it could be connected to the outer loop by another incline. I'm guessing trains continuously circling at high level on such tracks could be unnacceptably noisy for residents in the valleys below unless the tracks were very well shielded by trees or other sound-shielding measures.

 

[squizzler]

I don't know if this is related to the test track proposal, but back in late July Talgo tweeted a picture of Carwyn Jones visiting their Madrid factory:

https://twitter.com/TalgoGroup/status/1022467608635957248

President Carlos Palacio today greeted Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones at the company HQ in Las Matas (Madrid). Good opportunity to show how our intercity trains are the best match to improve rail transport in the UK conventional network.

It wouldn't be to sell trains because at that point the new fleet was spoken for.

 

[Envoy]

The Welsh Government seeks to see a 110mph test track and rail technology centre at Onllwyn - pronounced in English as if Oncline. Surely, it would be difficult to build such a circuit at such a location and who would use it? Even if built, the max speed would be too low for many trains. If the Welsh Government wanted such a facility, would the money not be better spent on creating a 125mph line between the main line at Miskin and Pencoed thus creating a ‘short-cut’ running *roughly parallel with the M4 which could be used as a test track at night? This would free up the present main-line via Pontyclun for dealing with local commuter trains plus freight. The Ford factory at Bridgend could be used as a base. * Gradients could rule this out.

The Welsh Government has announced that a formal planning application for its £100m Global Centre of Rail Excellence is due for submission in early 2020.

https://www.transport-network.co.uk/Wales-to-join-Europe's-rail-elite,-while-Halton-Curve-reopens/15892

 

[Llanigraham]

The Welsh Government seeks to see a 110mph test track and rail technology centre at Onllwyn - pronounced in English as if Oncline. Surely, it would be difficult to build such a circuit at such a location and who would use it? Even if built, the max speed would be too low for many trains. If the Welsh Government wanted such a facility, would the money not be better spent on creating a 125mph line between the main line at Miskin and Pencoed thus creating a ‘short-cut’ running *roughly parallel with the M4 which could be used as a test track at night? This would free up the present main-line via Pontyclun for dealing with local commuter trains plus freight. The Ford factory at Bridgend could be used as a base. * Inlcines could rule this out.

https://www.transport-network.co.uk/Wales-to-join-Europe's-rail-elite,-while-Halton-Curve-reopens/15892

I refer you to another thread on here about Welsh pronunciation. It is much nearer:

On - llyw that rhymes with loo - in.

 

[DarloRich]

who would use it? Even if built, the max speed would be too low for many trains.

Testing facilities in this country are hard to come by ) the demand on Old Dalby and on High Marnham is very high) and there is gong to be an awful lot of testing needed in the coming years with ERTMS. It also isn't just passenger trains that need testing.

 

[PHILIPE]

Skates is spinning the line their is a need for this sort of facility in the UK.

The similarities with the now defunct "Circuit of Wales" proposal are rather numerous hence my thread title...

It will be world class next if it's spin from Ken Skates

 

[stj]

Will go the same way as the Circuit of Wales and the new M4 round Newport.