The UK attitude to firearms

[Butts]

I'm really suprised a lot of people have never fired a "proper" gun - perhaps it's a generational thing !!

 

[najaB]

I'm really suprised a lot of people have never fired a "proper" gun - perhaps it's a generational thing !!

It very much is. Post-WW2 there were a lot more guns floating around and national service still existed, so people who grew up in the 50's and 60's were much more likely to be exposed to firearms. Even into the '70s and 80s the Cold War armed forces were much larger and the army/air force cadets were very active.

The end of the Cold War and general winding down of the armed forces means that most people are a lot further away from an active military installation than their parents would have been (meaning they are less likely to be invited to open days) and cadets are very much the exception rather than the rule.

Throw in the post-Dunblane restrictions on handgun ownership and it's not surprising that younger people are unlikely to have guns as a 'thing' in their lives.

 

[najaB]

I'm really suprised a lot of people have never fired a "proper" gun - perhaps it's a generational thing !!

It very much is.

Meant to add, it's also a geographical thing - people in more rural areas are much more likely to have guns in their lives.

 

[PeterC]

I've held and fired a rifle once on a school trip to Strensall Barracks many years ago. All I can recall is that we had to lie down in order to fire, it was some sort of indoor range with a target that seemed miles away. I've no idea what type of firearm it was, but I do know it was bloody heavy and had one hell of a kick! I also believe I missed.

Target shooting was done in the prone position. What you fired sounds like a .303 Lee Enfield, you had to hold it really tight to your shoulder or it could give you quite a thump.

My regret was not being having the time or the spare cash to keep up gliding after getting my wings in the cadets. The nearest airfield was a pig of a journey by public transport and I would have had to pay for trips with one of their own instructors before being allowed up solo in a club glider. Plus I was already trying to balance girlfriends and A level revision timewise.

 

[najaB]

Plus I was already trying to balance girlfriends...

Now, there's your problem. Right there!

 

[Bromley boy]

Now, there's your problem. Right there!

Although, sounds like a nice problem to have.

 

[Darandio]

Target shooting was done in the prone position. What you fired sounds like a .303 Lee Enfield, you had to hold it really tight to your shoulder or it could give you quite a thump.

Thanks, I really wouldn't have a clue what it was! It was in 1994, and having just done some (very limited) research it suggests it may have been a .22 training version?

 

[Domh245]

The Air Cadets were a fantastic organisation (well at least 40 years ago !!!)

As previously mentioned shooting .22 and .303 ....plus

Gliding .... at Old Sarum in my case

Air Experience Flying in a Chipmunk at Hamble - often with WWII veteran on the joystick - "I have control sir" - anyone remember that.

Helicopter Flight in a Wessex

Also Annual Camps in the UK and abroad ....Germany and Malta in my case.

You could actually get your "wings" for a Glider or Aircraft with scholarships available.

For a lot of miscreants first exposure to illegal smoking and drinking.....

Wonder what the ATC is like today ?

Was reasonably similar when I left a few years ago (albeit an RAF CCF Sqn rather than an ATC Sqn). Shooting with .22 and 5.56 L98s, gliding (at Halton in my case), air experience flying (at RAF Benson in Grob G115 tutors - still with plenty of "I have control sir"), Flights in current RAF aircraft typically as part of an annual camp, as well as gliding and flying scholarships. I couldn't possibly comment on the last point however :P

 

[Iskra]

This!

I was also an air cadet and had the same shooting experiences. Boring as hell, I couldn’t hit a barn door either.

The experience did teach me about how dangerous rifles are. Once you’ve fired one, you understand how they can put a hole right through someone.

The most sobering experience I had was in the 'butts' on an outdoor range at Strensall. For those that don't know, this is at the target end of the range. You sit behind an earth/concrete wall and raise up a big paper target on a pully system for someone to shoot at. You then take shelter and watch their bullets hit an angled sand/concrete bank opposite where you're sat, along with associated ping-ing sound affects. Very eerie hearing bullets pinging all around you and seeing the sand being kicked up in the air, I remember it made me a bit uneasy at the time, hopefully the closest I'll ever come to being shot at. Wouldn't want to do that for a living.

I was in both the CCF and the ATC, CCF was definitely better. Got to go to some great bases, St. Mawgan, Marham, Halton, Valley, Cottesmore but the best was a two week trip to a small army base in Canada where we learnt to ski- it's an amazing country and I'd love to go back. Obviously loved the flying too at Church Fenton, Linton-on-Ouse and Benson amongst other places.

 

[Nevasleep]

I've shot a few while in Texas, far louder than I expected, especially the AR-15. Haven't seen a gun in the UK (outside of Police), let alone the other options.

 

[Busaholic]

Plus I was already trying to balance girlfriends .

One on the left, one on the right,,,, oh, happy days. Never happened to me, of course. Married far too young!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I had a .22 pellet gun with telescopic sights as a 12 year old birthday present and later a single bore shotgun.My father had proper double barrel shotguns for rabbiting and fox culling. He had always had guns for shooting. Quite common in my part of SW Wales.

Once a year the police came round for a firearms license check - they never came past the back door to check on the actual firearms , which were kept in a handy non - locked cupboard. Ammo kept seperate in a locked drawer. It was always low key , as they (the police) knew their community etc. It was just a chat and a coffee ......paperwork signed and job done.

Apart from a very unusual suicide by an old boy farmer , I cannot recall any fear of mis-use of guns , and I am all for tough regulation, especially against crime gangs (read "drug gangs") , but this was all a long time ago in what seemed a more benign society.

 

[Dentonian]

I'm really suprised a lot of people have never fired a "proper" gun - perhaps it's a generational thing !!

Why? Surely, the only people to have fired guns would be Farmers, Army Personnel, a tiny minority of Police Officers and the worst of criminals. I overheard a conversation with a Police "special" today saying that British Police hardly ever even carry Tasers - far too much paperwork involved.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I don't want to see one, don't want to own one either. I was the same age as the kids who lost their lives when Dunblane happened and I'm glad the gun laws got changed swiftly soon after.

As far as I'm concerned, the further they are away from me the better.

 

[Busaholic]

There should be an amendment to the Second Amendment: the phrase 'the right to bear arms' replaced by 'the right to bare arms', It'd solve the problems at a stroke of the pen. How can a supposedly sophisticated nation cleeve to such outmoded concepts? It's caveman stuff dressed up in bombastic legalese. Nowhere else in the world pretends that ownership of firearms is fundamental to the wellbeing of the citizenship, because nowhere else in the world is so dumb.

On the substance of the question, I only got to handling a firearm in the army cadet corps at school and, though I was pleased to be classed as a marksman, it never made me want to continue with it. I do remember my father, who'd been a tank commander in WW2 and continued in the Territorial Army afterwards, going to Bisley to compete in some firing there, so I suppose he must have been good at it, but I know he became very anti-war in later life.

 

[Harbornite]

It seems I might have made a mistake with my poll choices, I voted before reading the original post, specifically the bit about army firearms.

I haven't fired a 'proper' weapon but I have handled one, an M14 EBR (during the American air day at Duxford, back in 2010)

 

[najaB]

Nowhere else in the world pretends that ownership of firearms is fundamental to the wellbeing of the citizenship, because nowhere else in the world is so dumb.

If you look at the full text of the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Which makes it clear (to me at least) that it is 'a well regulated militia' which is the necessary thing, not unlimited ownership of firearms.

 

[Butts]

Why? Surely, the only people to have fired guns would be Farmers, Army Personnel, a tiny minority of Police Officers and the worst of criminals. I overheard a conversation with a Police "special" today saying that British Police hardly ever even carry Tasers - far too much paperwork involved.

It may come as a shock to you but the RAF, Marines and Navy have firearms as well as the Army. Never heard of "Rock Apes" or "Bootnecks"

Also Army Cadets, Sea Cadets and Air Cadets

 

[GB]

Surely, the only people to have fired guns would be Farmers, Army Personnel, a tiny minority of Police Officers and the worst of criminals. I overheard a conversation with a Police "special" today saying that British Police hardly ever even carry Tasers

Wrong on both counts.

 

[Iskra]

There should be an amendment to the Second Amendment: the phrase 'the right to bear arms' replaced by 'the right to bare arms', It'd solve the problems at a stroke of the pen. How can a supposedly sophisticated nation cleeve to such outmoded concepts? It's caveman stuff dressed up in bombastic legalese. Nowhere else in the world pretends that ownership of firearms is fundamental to the wellbeing of the citizenship, because nowhere else in the world is so dumb.

On the substance of the question, I only got to handling a firearm in the army cadet corps at school and, though I was pleased to be classed as a marksman, it never made me want to continue with it. I do remember my father, who'd been a tank commander in WW2 and continued in the Territorial Army afterwards, going to Bisley to compete in some firing there, so I suppose he must have been good at it, but I know he became very anti-war in later life.

I disagree. The Italians, Swiss and Russians are pretty in to their firearms. And there are many parts of the world where hunting is still a big thing-in Britain as well as Canada and Scandinavia.

 

[PeterC]

The most sobering experience I had was in the 'butts' on an outdoor range at Strensall. For those that don't know, this is at the target end of the range. You sit behind an earth/concrete wall and raise up a big paper target on a pully system for someone to shoot at. You then take shelter and watch their bullets hit an angled sand/concrete bank opposite where you're sat, along with associated ping-ing sound affects. Very eerie hearing bullets pinging all around you and seeing the sand being kicked up in the air, I remember it made me a bit uneasy at the time, hopefully the closest I'll ever come to being shot at. Wouldn't want to do that for a living.

I was in both the CCF and the ATC, CCF was definitely better. Got to go to some great bases, St. Mawgan, Marham, Halton, Valley, Cottesmore but the best was a two week trip to a small army base in Canada where we learnt to ski- it's an amazing country and I'd love to go back. Obviously loved the flying too at Church Fenton, Linton-on-Ouse and Benson amongst other places.

I spent a day in the butts at the old Rainham ranges spotting for a competition once. I am not sure if they would still allow youngsters of 15 to 17 to do that. Raising a wooden pointer to mark the fall of each shot with strict instructions to keep your head below the parapet. The butts themselves consisted of a curved metal cover rather like a giant bus shelter covered with earth. Somebody fired low and skimmed the parapet, the whole thing rang like a bell.

 

[TheNewNo2]

Beyond BB guns, old muskets displayed in museums/pubs and the SMGs carried by armed police/soldiers, I have happily never seen a gun in real life. I hope that continues. Quite frankly I'd really rather the police not be armed either No, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be police with guns, just that they should not be on standard patrol - anywhere. The sight of a gun, even carried by a law enforcement official, does not embue me with a sense of safety, quite the opposite in fact. I do not want to live in a society where law enforcement ever day carry around things which have no purpose other than to kill other humans.

In some ways, Trump is right. Build the wall. On the US southern and northern borders. But not to keep the Mexicans out, to keep the Americans in. Quarantine that country so it cannot export its madness to the rest of the world.

(Oh, and gunsmiths Remington are going out of business. Good.)

 

[furnessvale]

Beyond BB guns, old muskets displayed in museums/pubs and the SMGs carried by armed police/soldiers, I have happily never seen a gun in real life. I hope that continues. Quite frankly I'd really rather the police not be armed either No, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be police with guns, just that they should not be on standard patrol - anywhere. The sight of a gun, even carried by a law enforcement official, does not embue me with a sense of safety, quite the opposite in fact. I do not want to live in a society where law enforcement ever day carry around things which have no purpose other than to kill other humans.

As a probationer PC, on three occasions I (with others) was sent to firearms incidents to "contain the situation".

En route to the "situation" I would pass police cars travelling the other way. They were firearms trained officers going back to the police station to collect guns. I determined then, that I too would rather be going the other way and applied for firearms training. Sadly the fact I wore glasses meant I couldn't be trusted with a gun.

 

[Dentonian]

It may come as a shock to you but the RAF, Marines and Navy have firearms as well as the Army. Never heard of "Rock Apes" or "Bootnecks"

Also Army Cadets, Sea Cadets and Air Cadets

OK. Replace "Army" with Military. FWIW (which is very little) No, I haven't heard of Rock Apes and if I did, I would probably assume it was those acquisitive monkeys in Gibraltar. Bootnecks, neither (Bootleggers, yes).

 

[Dentonian]

Wrong on both counts.

Oh! Well, obviously the Special in question was a liar. Shall I tell him next time I see him?

 

[GB]

You can tell him what you like. But to answer your first point, what about those who have fired a gun somewhere on holiday, over here as hobby, a hunter or anyone who is old enough to own a gun before all the major restrictions came in?

To answer your point about tasers, you do not need to be a firearms officer to be issued a taser and the issue rate increases each year. The City of London Police issued nearly 2000 more tasers to their officers last year alone and there are talks to issue the majority of front line police with them. To say they don't carry them because of paper work is wrong.

 

[AlterEgo]

OK. Replace "Army" with Military. FWIW (which is very little) No, I haven't heard of Rock Apes and if I did, I would probably assume it was those acquisitive monkeys in Gibraltar. Bootnecks, neither (Bootleggers, yes).

Rockapes are the RAF Regiment. A bootneck is a Royal Marine.

 

[Dentonian]

You can tell him what you like. But to answer your first point, what about those who have fired a gun somewhere on holiday, over here as hobby, a hunter or anyone who is old enough to own a gun before all the major restrictions came in?

To answer your point about tasers, you do not need to be a firearms officer to be issued a taser and the issue rate increases each year. The City of London Police issued nearly 2000 more tasers to their officers last year alone and there are talks to issue the majority of front line police with them. To say they don't carry them because of paper work is wrong.

I have no inside knowledge to comment, but we know from other aspects of "British" life that there is no reason to assume what happens in London is remotely similar to what happens elsewhere in the country.

 

[fowler9]

I've fired a rifle in New Zealand. To this say I'm not 100% sure of the legal status of the ownership. Have held an SA-80. Always feel a little uneasy when I see police by Lime Street with their carbines, that is normally only after terrorist incidents in the country. Scariest was seeing police outside banks in Bolivia with what looked like Schmeissers.

 

[najaB]

Scariest was seeing police outside banks in Bolivia with what looked like Schmeissers.

Don't go to Brazil then. The Policia Militar live up to expectations - keep in mind that (certainly in Rio) they provide the majority of policing services.