The United States Thread

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NY Yankee

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I have received complaints about making too many comparisons between the United States and UK, and causing some threads to go off topic. It was not my intention to be a jerk. I apologize. In the future, I will post anything pertaining to my home country in this thread and only this thread (my NYC subway and Washington DC Metro pictures will continue to be posted in the appropriate forums). That includes sports, pop culture, and politics. Residents of the UK and other countries are free to participate in this thread.

Anyway, baseball season starts tomorrow. Albert Pujols has been looking good in spring training on his new team. The Marlins have a nice new ballpark in downtown Miami. The addition of Jose Reyes will provide a spark for their offense. The Detroit Tigers have a formidable offense. I'm obviously rooting for the New York Yankees.

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Yankees fan myself really - first team i ever saw play baseball and cant wait for the new season to start - its on far too late live over here some times though which is a pain..
 

David

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1 good thing about the UK, at least we have circuits with proper corners and bends, instead of the cars just turning left all the time ;) :P

Yes, I know there is proper circuits (such as Laguna Seca and Road America) in the USA, and that they use good old fashioned street courses as well.
 

Seacook

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I'm just settling down to watch the Tigers-Red Sox game on ESPN America. On form it should be a win for Detroit, but it's a game of inches.

Time to go - Verlander is ready to pitch.
 

Minilad

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Mets win on opening day again. Best opening day win record in Baseball. Beat Atlanta 1-0 and a good performance on the mound from Santana
Lets Go The Metropolitans
 

Michael.Y

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I'm a massive fan of Americana, if not America itself. My burning ambition is to visit San Francisco - I'm a big fan of the west coast sound - Jefferson Airplane being my favourite band. I love drinking Bud, eating at Eddie's Diner in Cardiff etc.

I'm a massive consumer of American culture - to whit the late night television shows of Craig Ferguson, the radio presentation of WDRC-FM, the films of Clint Eastwood and I also too am a baseball fan, being a Giants fan since 2002.
 

Mike C

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1 good thing about the UK, at least we have circuits with proper corners and bends, instead of the cars just turning left all the time ;) :P

Yes, I know there is proper circuits (such as Laguna Seca and Road America) in the USA, and that they use good old fashioned street courses as well.
I have worked in F1 and IndyCar and I can honestly say that two of the most incredible tracks I have been to and witnessed skilled driving were Fontana, CA and Indy. Both superspeedways. I get tired of listening to people slating ovals as "boring" or "easy - just turn left". I assume by your tone that you were joking though.

To our Yankee fan - no apology necessary - I think all your comparisons of the USA and UK/Europe have been interesting. I've spent many weeks in the USA in business and leisure and really enjoyed each and every place I've been. Even the warts n' all parts of Richmond VA, Chicago and LA. As far as I'm concerned - keep the stories coming.
 

NY Yankee

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Yankees fan myself really - first team i ever saw play baseball and cant wait for the new season to start - its on far too late live over here some times though which is a pain..
You can always watch the highlights on ESPN.

Mets win on opening day again. Best opening day win record in Baseball. Beat Atlanta 1-0 and a good performance on the mound from Santana
Lets Go The Metropolitans
I despise the Mets. Ironically, I live in a part of NYC that is closer to Citi Field (where the Mets play) than Yankee Stadium.

I have worked in F1 and IndyCar and I can honestly say that two of the most incredible tracks I have been to and witnessed skilled driving were Fontana, CA and Indy. Both superspeedways. I get tired of listening to people slating ovals as "boring" or "easy - just turn left". I assume by your tone that you were joking though.

To our Yankee fan - no apology necessary - I think all your comparisons of the USA and UK/Europe have been interesting. I've spent many weeks in the USA in business and leisure and really enjoyed each and every place I've been. Even the warts n' all parts of Richmond VA, Chicago and LA. As far as I'm concerned - keep the stories coming.
My United States story of the day: Did anyone hear about the flying car? It is currently on display at the Auto Show at the Javits Center in New York City.

Aviation company Terrafugia's first step toward creating a flying car does not allow drivers to hover over downtown traffic gridlock and land on city roads or highways. But the company's vision for making flying safer and more accessible could pave the way for flying cars of the future to sensibly fly themselves.

Today's big commercial jets can already fly and land themselves without much help from human pilots. Such automated flying technologies could soon take off in even smaller aircraft such as Terrafugia's "Transition" — a vehicle that is less the stuff of science fiction and more of a "street-legal airplane" that folds its wings to drive between small airports.

The evolution in the Transition is going to come in the capability of the electronics and autopilot," said Cliff Allen, vice president of sales at Terrafugia and a trained flight instructor. "Everybody has heard of the Google (driverless) car. The technology is there to make an airplane that can virtually fly itself."

Terrafugia envisions the Transition as a transformative vehicle for sports pilots who can get certified with as little as 20 hours of flight training. Rather than abort a flight because of bad weather or press on at the risk of crashing, Transition pilots could land at one of the 5,200 public airports in the U.S. and continue their journey on the roads.

But more automated versions of the Transition could make flying even safer for inexperienced pilots or would-be flying car drivers, Allen said during a press preview here at the New York International Auto Show on April 4. Such autopilot technology could also prove necessary for any futuristic vision of flying cars that won't give air traffic controllers nightmares.

"Your co-pilot would be the systems of the airplane itself to the point where it won't let you fly into bad weather — it will take over," Allen told InnovationNewsDaily. "It will be HAL saying 'You're jeopardizing the mission at this point,' and will land at the nearest airport."

The Transition's concept as a "flying car" aircraft has already captured the imagination of more than just pilots. One-third of online visitors who left feedback on the company's website described themselves as having no flight training. Some have already put down $10,000 deposits to buy the $279,000 Transition when it first ships in late 2012 or early 2013.

Terrafugia could survive selling just 40 or 50 Transitions each year, but would see far greater profits if it captures even a small part of the market normally reserved for luxury cars, Allen said. Rental fleets of Transitions could also add to the business opportunities.

The company's expertise has even come in handy for the U.S. military's dream of a "flying Humvee" that could automatically fly itself with soldiers or Marines as passengers. Terrafugia is subcontracting with AAI Corp. as part of the project launched by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) — an effort that is both ambitious and oddly less complicated in some ways compared with civilian flying car concepts.

"You don't have to worry about making it roadable in the street-legal way," Allen said.

For now, Terrafugia has begun planning how to train both flight instructors and nonpilot customers to fly the Transition, Allen said. But it keeps a steady eye on the possible future of automated flying cars — Congress has told the Federal Aviation Administration to prepare for drones flying in U.S. civilian airspace by 2015.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46969099/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/#.T34KVdnhcYA
 

David

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I have worked in F1 and IndyCar and I can honestly say that two of the most incredible tracks I have been to and witnessed skilled driving were Fontana, CA and Indy. Both superspeedways. I get tired of listening to people slating ovals as "boring" or "easy - just turn left". I assume by your tone that you were joking though.
Yes I was jokinh, hence the emotes I used.

Driving on a superspeedway in an indycar takes a lot of guts. To go at 230mph+ wheel to wheel with another car while at the same time being very close to a huge concrete wall is immensly brave. At full racing speed you don't have a small accident on any oval, as Dan Wheldon showed last year.

I think it was Mauricio Gugelmen back in the late 90s or 2000 who set a lap record at Fontana of just over 240mph during qualifying. They showed a trace of how he used the accelerator during the race, and he was flat to the floor all the way round. For people who don't know, Fontana is a 2.5 mile oval.
 

mindthedoors

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When a friend and I travelled the states for 3 months last year, I got completely hooked on basketball. The finals were on and I was following Dallas throughout. I enjoyed how fast-paced and wild the game gets, maybe it caught my attention because there are so many goals.. such a sucker.
I still can't stand American football, too much stop start makes it frustrating. Baseball is okay, if I kept my eye on any team, it would have to be the red sox, just for the shear old-fashioned rivalry between the yankies.

Loved the spacious and slow Amtrak most.
 

Mike C

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Yes I was jokinh, hence the emotes I used.

Driving on a superspeedway in an indycar takes a lot of guts. To go at 230mph+ wheel to wheel with another car while at the same time being very close to a huge concrete wall is immensly brave. At full racing speed you don't have a small accident on any oval, as Dan Wheldon showed last year.

I think it was Mauricio Gugelmen back in the late 90s or 2000 who set a lap record at Fontana of just over 240mph during qualifying. They showed a trace of how he used the accelerator during the race, and he was flat to the floor all the way round. For people who don't know, Fontana is a 2.5 mile oval.
I think it was Gil de Ferran in qualifying for the 2000 (?) California 500. Could have been 2001. Anyway, 241mph *AVERAGE* that still stands as the fastest closed track speed record anywhere.

I remember the first time I visited Indianapolis during free practice for the 500 many years ago. I walked down to the catch fencing at the exit of turn 4 opposite the pit entrance and watched them coming round the banking. Breathtaking.

The drivers were great too. Tony Kanaan, Paul Tracy, Jimmy Vasser.... Those were the days.

That said, F1 commands respect in different ways but I'm glad to see there is someone on our shores that appreciates IndyCar/Champ car for what it is/was.


 

David

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Your right, it is Gil De Ferran who is the lap record holder. According to the font of all knowledge, wikipedia, the lap record is 241.426mph.

Mauricio Gugelmin did hold the record however, as in 1997 he went around Fontana at a speed of 240.942mph which is what I remember seeing on Eurosport that year.

2 miles in under 30 seconds!
 

LE Greys

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Your right, it is Gil De Ferran who is the lap record holder. According to the font of all knowledge, wikipedia, the lap record is 241.426mph.

Mauricio Gugelmin did hold the record however, as in 1997 he went around Fontana at a speed of 240.942mph which is what I remember seeing on Eurosport that year.

2 miles in under 30 seconds!
I want to see that one day! I actually met someone who used to marshall there. When I told her about the Nurburgring (14.7 miles, you only saw the cars seventeen times) she didn't believe me. Still, there have been numerous drivers crossing the Atlantic, with Mario Andretti and the two Villeneuves being the most memorable coming our way, and Nigel Mansell, Jim Clark and Jackie Stewart going the other way. The Indy 500 counted in the F1 championship for a while, and Lotus made a major effort to win it.

BTW, I only spent a week in the US, but already support the Blue Jays, being the only Canadian major-league team.
 

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My story of the day actually pertains to England. Did you know that England's smartest family is black?

Meet the “First Family of Education” in England. They are black.

Peter and Paula Imafidon, 9-year-old twins from Waltham Forest in northeast London, are a part of the highest-achieving clan in the history of Great Britain education. The two youngest siblings are about to make British history as the youngest students to ever enter high school. They astounded veteran experts of academia when they became the youngest to ever pass the University of Cambridge’s advanced mathematics exam. That’s on top of the fact they have set world records when they passed the A/AS-level math papers.

To Peter and Paula’s parents, this is nothing new. Chris Imafidon said he and his wife have been through this before: they have other super-gifted, overachieving children.

Peter and Paula’s sister, Anne-Marie, now 20, holds the world record as the youngest girl to pass the A-level computing, when she was just 13. She is now studying at arguably the most renowned medical school in the United States, Johns Hopkins University, in Baltimore. Read rest of story here

http://rollingout.com/politics/england%E2%80%99s-smartest-family-is-black-2/

To all of the residents of England, as a black American, I would like to thank you for giving blacks from Africa and the West Indies a fair chance to make it in your society. That's more than I can say for my home country. In the United States, an unarmed black kid was shot by a neighborhood watchman for no reason other than the fact that he looked suspicious. Blacks in America are routinely discriminated against in education and the workplace. Based on the Tube videos I've watched and my interactions with people on this site, that's not the case in the UK.

When a friend and I travelled the states for 3 months last year, I got completely hooked on basketball. The finals were on and I was following Dallas throughout. I enjoyed how fast-paced and wild the game gets, maybe it caught my attention because there are so many goals.. such a sucker.
I still can't stand American football, too much stop start makes it frustrating. Baseball is okay, if I kept my eye on any team, it would have to be the red sox, just for the shear old-fashioned rivalry between the yankies.

Loved the spacious and slow Amtrak most.
Meet my favorite NBA player, Blake Griffin

[youtube]y3ERVQL06t0[/youtube]
 

RyanB

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I'll probably find myself participating in your threads about American stuff, as I have always thought about what it would be like to emigrate.

Over the past year I've grown to like American sports, primarily due to my dissatisfaction with Sports like Association Football (same old teams, winning the league, taking all the best players, repeat ad nausaem)

It started with American Football, then Ice Hockey and the occasional bit of Basketball, I rarely ever watch Baseball though.

Baseball is somewhat of a black sheep when it comes to American Sports in my opinion. It's quite a slow game and action seems to be a rarity in games I've watched, having dragged on for several innings with barely any hits.

As for American Football - I follow both the College Game (don't follow any teams) and the NFL (New England Patriots Fan) - and I'm going to the International Series game at Wembley later this year as part of my 21st Birthday.

I follow Ice Hockey both here at home (don't follow any particular team) and over in America (Mainly a Bruins Fan but with a soft spot for the Anaheim Ducks)
 

NY Yankee

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Baseball is not for everyone. It's a slower-paced sport than basketball and football. You really have to appreciate the game.

Some of the NBA's best players will be in the Olympics. If you can get tickets, it will be worth watching.

I utterly abhor the Patriots. I like the New York Giants. They have one "American" football game at Wembley every season.
 

Roughytuffy

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I'm a massive fan of Americana, if not America itself. My burning ambition is to visit San Francisco - I'm a big fan of the west coast sound - Jefferson Airplane being my favourite band. I love drinking Bud, eating at Eddie's Diner in Cardiff etc.

I'm a massive consumer of American culture - to whit the late night television shows of Craig Ferguson, the radio presentation of WDRC-FM, the films of Clint Eastwood and I also too am a baseball fan, being a Giants fan since 2002.
You MUST go there. Its a great City. Was there in 2006 and enjoyed every minute of it. Make sure you go to Alcatraz and book the last tour of the day. Its a great view watching San Francisco Bay lighting up on the evening and feeling the ambience of the Cell Blocks getting dark and the dim lights coming on. Oh, thats just a small part of SF, lots more to do and see.
 

RyanB

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Baseball is not for everyone. It's a slower-paced sport than basketball and football. You really have to appreciate the game.

Some of the NBA's best players will be in the Olympics. If you can get tickets, it will be worth watching.

I utterly abhor the Patriots. I like the New York Giants. They have one "American" football game at Wembley every season.
I see we may agree to disagree on American Football, but the Super Bowl was a cracker, had Gronkowski been fully fit and healthy I suspect it may have been a very different story, but oh well.

Honestly think that the Patriots will go all the way and win it this coming season, Brady wants a 4th ring badly and they have a young, inexperienced (but talented) secondary and a killer offence. All that's needed is a good pass rush to give this team a good chance of winning a 4th championship.
 

Minilad

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You MUST go there. Its a great City. Was there in 2006 and enjoyed every minute of it. Make sure you go to Alcatraz and book the last tour of the day. Its a great view watching San Francisco Bay lighting up on the evening and feeling the ambience of the Cell Blocks getting dark and the dim lights coming on. Oh, thats just a small part of SF, lots more to do and see.
Agreed. Was there in 2010. Loved it. Seems to have a different more laid back vibe than other big American Cities. And the Giants ballpark is lovely
 

LE Greys

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Baseball is not for everyone. It's a slower-paced sport than basketball and football. You really have to appreciate the game.

Some of the NBA's best players will be in the Olympics. If you can get tickets, it will be worth watching.

I utterly abhor the Patriots. I like the New York Giants. They have one "American" football game at Wembley every season.
From my point of view as a cricket fan, it's quite fast-paced and a bit confusing. When I worked out that the batting and bowling/pitching roles were effectively reversed, then it began to make sense. The only thing that confuses me is that what would in cricket be a good pull-shot through the leg side is a foul ball and doesn't count. Still, the pacing is about the same as a Twenty20 match, or almost, maybe a two-innings T20 (20-20-20-20 perhaps) if they ever played one. I could get used to watching it.
 

Minilad

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From my point of view as a cricket fan, it's quite fast-paced and a bit confusing. When I worked out that the batting and bowling/pitching roles were effectively reversed, then it began to make sense. The only thing that confuses me is that what would in cricket be a good pull-shot through the leg side is a foul ball and doesn't count. Still, the pacing is about the same as a Twenty20 match, or almost, maybe a two-innings T20 (20-20-20-20 perhaps) if they ever played one. I could get used to watching it.
Give it a go. Like cricket it is a sport that you get more out of the more you know. I have been following it for about 8 years now and I love it
 

Ascot

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I'm a massive fan of Americana, if not America itself. My burning ambition is to visit San Francisco - I'm a big fan of the west coast sound - Jefferson Airplane being my favourite band. I love drinking Bud, eating at Eddie's Diner in Cardiff etc.

I'm a massive consumer of American culture - to whit the late night television shows of Craig Ferguson, the radio presentation of WDRC-FM, the films of Clint Eastwood and I also too am a baseball fan, being a Giants fan since 2002.
San Fran is very nice although I've only been there for 36 hours 3 weeks ago so can't really comment. The LUCE bar is amazing to meet with people and to touch down after a hard days at it.

I recommend a weekend break in New York too and I try every excuse to go over at least once a month for the nightlife, social and a catch up with friends.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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If anyone wants to visit New York, I'll be more than happy to give them a tour.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I stumbled upon this funny story:

The lorry driver taking kit to the football pitch was so knackered he pulled into the lay-by near the petrol station for a quick kip.

Huh?

For American readers, that translates as: The truck driver delivering uniforms to the soccer field was so tired he pulled into the rest area near the gas station for a nap.

As George Bernard Shaw once observed, England and America are two countries divided by a common language. That trans-Atlantic linguistic divide will be magnified by Olympic proportions this summer when an estimated 250,000 Americans come to town for the London Games.

Yes, the Internet, television, movies, global travel and business have blurred language differences, and many people in the U.S. and U.K. are familiar with those bizarre figures of speech from both sides of the pond.

Yet important differences remain, prompting this rough guide to just a few of the potential colloquial conundrums that await baffled American visitors to the old country. (A caveat: This is not a definitive, all-inclusive list and doesn't take into account different spelling, accents, Cockney rhyming slang or expletives!)

__

FOOD AND DRINK

Those are "chips" that go with your burger, instead of fries. You'd like some potato chips? Those are "crisps."

A soft drink or soda? That would be a "fizzy drink." A soft drink can refer to any nonalcoholic beverage. If you want the hard stuff, go to the "off-license" rather than a liquor store.

If the waiter asks if you'd like "pudding," he's referring to dessert in general, not necessarily the soft treat that Bill Cosby once pitched in TV ads. By the way, if you see "black pudding" or "blood pudding" on the menu _ well, that's not dessert at all. It's sausage.

A "cracker" isn't only what you put cheese on. It's also a very good thing, as in "That goal was a cracker!" It can be an adjective, too: "London will put on a cracking opening ceremony."

__

OLYMPIC LINGO

Let's talk "sport." That's singular in Britain, not like sports in the U.S.

Those "blokes" (guys) hawking 100-meter final tickets? They're not scalpers, they're "ticket touts." Incidentally, if you can't get any tickets, you can always watch on "telly" where the commercials are called "adverts."

You'll definitely do a lot of "queuing" (waiting in line), especially at Olympic venues for security checks. Whatever you do, don't "jump the queue."

Going to watch the finish of the marathon or cycling road race? Yes, the venue is the "Mall." No, that's not a shopping center. It's that iconic boulevard leading from Buckingham Palace to Trafalgar Square. And, it's pronounced the "mal."

Headed to the Olympic Stadium to watch track and field? The preferred term in England is "athletics."

Of course, soccer is "football." The sport is played on a pitch, rather than a field. A player might kick the ball into the "stand," rather than stands _ and there definitely are no bleachers. Players wear "shirts," not jerseys, and "boots," not cleats, and their uniform is called their "kit."

TRAVEL TALK

Londoners don't walk on the sidewalk. They walk on the "pavement."

That crosswalk? It's a "zebra crossing" (pronounced zeh-bra, not zee-bra).

The best way to travel around the city during the Olympics will be by the "Underground," the rail network commonly known as the "Tube." It's not the "subway" _ that's a pedestrian underpass.

Tube trains have "carriages," not cars. When you get on or off the Tube, don't forget to "mind the gap" between the platform and the train.

__

ON THE ROAD

Anything to do with cars can be oh-so confusing _ and not just because you drive on the left side of the road here.

London's roads are full of maddening traffic "roundabouts," not circles or rotaries.

The hood and the trunk? No, no. That's the "bonnet" and the "boot." The windshield is the "windscreen," side-view mirrors are "wing mirrors," the stick shift is the "gear stick."

A highway is a "motorway." You park in the "car park."

__

RANDOMLY SPEAKING

You take "the lift," not the elevator.

That little corner store where you can buy newspapers and magazines and snacks? It's usually called a "newsagent."

Looking for a trash can? Try a "rubbish bin" instead.

Thumbtacks don't exist; they're "drawing pins."

__

EXPRESS YOURSELF

If someone is feeling "chuffed," don't worry. That means they're delighted, as in, "I'm chuffed to bits that I got tickets for the closing ceremony."

If someone says they're "gutted," it has nothing to do with fish. They're just bitterly disappointed, as in the British Olympic sprinter who's "gutted" after failing to qualify for the 200-meter final. By contrast, he'll be "over the moon" if he makes it.

You'll hear "Cheers" a lot, and not just in the pub. It's a term for thank you. So is "Ta."

__

ON THE OTHER HAND

Some words take on a totally different, even opposite, meaning in the two countries.

"Torrid" is a prime example _ positive in American sports, negative in Britain.

In the U.S., if Kobe Bryant goes on a torrid run in the fourth quarter, he's scoring a bunch of points. In England, if Chelsea striker Fernando Torres is having a torrid season, he can't put the ball in the net.

__

DRESSING DOWN

The lexicon for clothing can be a minefield.

Be particularly careful when you talk about "pants." In Britain, that refers to underwear. Trousers is the more appropriate term. (Pants can also be an adjective, meaning bad or lousy, as in "That film was pants.")

Suspenders don't hold up trousers; "braces" do. In British English, "suspenders" are what Americans call a garter belt.

___

WEATHER OR NOT

For those cool evenings, pack a "jumper," as opposed to a sweater. Or a jacket called an "anorak." But note: "anorak" is also a somewhat derogatory term for a nerdy, obsessive person.

And, finally, with London's rainy reputation in mind, don't forget to carry an umbrella.

Yes, if there's one phrase worth remembering, it's this:

Bring a brolly.

____

Follow Stephen Wilson on Twitter at http://twitter.com/stevewilsonap

http://www.newser.com/article/d9u06kf00/the-lift-the-tube-the-zebra-crossing-language-riddles-face-american-visitors-for-olympics.html

The most confusing thing about the UK has to be the left side of the road thing. As far as the subtle differences in language, that's not a big deal.
 

Michael.Y

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The most confusing thing about the UK has to be the left side of the road thing. As far as the subtle differences in language, that's not a big deal.
It's not confusing to us ;)

Also, it's not just roads - it's rail too.

Incidentally, the left side is the "right" (correct) side - the Romans drove their chariots on the left, and as most people are right handed, a horseman would thus be able to hold the reins with his left hand and keep his right hand free—to offer in friendship to passing riders or to defend himself with a sword, if necessary.

It's also been suggested that driving on the left for righties (and as such using your dominant hand on the wheel, and your weaker hand on the stick) is safer.
 

SS4

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To make it more confusing you can have fries with your burger if you like but don't be fooled into thinking they're the same as chips :lol:

In some localities (I've heard it in Birmingham) a roundabout is called an island (not to be confused with land surrounded by water which is also an island :lol:)

I've heard, but cannot confirm the accuracy thereof, that in the US, UK = England
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Driving on the left is correct because France drive on the right and since when did they do things properly :p
 

Mike C

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I was working at an IndyCar race in Ohio many years ago. Our aerodynamicist who was English announced that he was "going round the back of the garages to smoke a fag" which got quite a reaction from the assembled team crew. In the US "smoke a fag" translates as "shoot a homosexual"
 

LE Greys

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There's quite a few around railways as well. Freight has spread to be universal, but in Britain is was always goods in steam days, but that sounds quaint these days. It took me half an hour to work out what a rail tie was, but I confused them when I started talking about points. Every unpowered vehicle seems to be a car of some sort, although the caboose is as rare as the brake van these days. Almost every loco seems to have only one cab. Are there still loads of turntables, or do you have to reverse them at the wye?. What a way to run a railroad!

Also, remember the old joke about the American businessman who went missing after his Friday meeting in London. They found him on Monday still wandering around the first floor looking for the way out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences
 
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