pitdiver
Member
According to our local news there has been a theft of signalling cable on the ECML. Would tis have been copper wire or has it been by fibre optics? If this the case surely it wouldn't be worth stealing?
Though to my knowledge it's not been unknown for them to cut fibre optic cables not realising that they are fibre optic.It would almost certainly be copper wire. While fibre-optics may be used for communication purposes, you still need copper wire to supply power to signals, point motors and track circuits or axle counters, at least to or from a local relay room.
That's the thing. And it's quite a common error (over and above the fundamental error of trying to steal stuff in the first place).Though to my knowledge it's not been unknown for them to cut fibre optic cables not realising that they are fibre optic.
Whilst I fully get your intention ('no disruption for the railway'), I would rather deal with the problem of theft than simply shift it somewhere else.Hopefully the theft of railway signalling cables will disappear when the easier pickings of car charging cables reaches profitable proportions.
The theft won't stop until it's not worth the money. Can't see that happening for conductive metals any time soon.Whilst I fully get your intention ('no disruption for the railway'), I would rather deal with the problem of theft than simply shift it somewhere else.
https://www.ft.com/content/bbd0adc1-442d-4662-bf13-9a641807b378. [Link to Financial times article about price of copper at all-time high]I do think it's a bit worrying that this seems to be on the rise again. We seemed to just about have cracked it after a terrible time in the early 2010s. But it seems like it is on the rise again. Have the previous methods lost their effectiveness or are things now desperate enough/the price of copper high enough again that it's worth the extra risk for the thieves in a way it wasn't after the various changes that curtailed it last time?
Seems 2009 was a bit of a bump, but prices were falling into 2016-ish, and have now shot up again.
Not quite, third rail still uses copper signalling cables.The pros of a third rail
How does third rail stop signalling cable being stolen?The pros of a third rail
The pros of a third rail
During the very long and protracted electrification of the OSE main line between Athens and Thessaloniki, large lengths of copper contact wire were frequently 'liberated' at night time prior to energisation.I imagine someone enterprising soul has made off with OHLE cable before but there's high risk (normal cable theft) and high (voltage) risk!
Fences really aren't much of a deterrent to people who are wanting to pinch cable. They just cut through them. Even if the amount of copper cable is reduced, there will still be significant disruption caused by people cutting fibre optic cable looking for copper.Ultimately the solution to this is probably going to have to be either a dramatic increase in fencing around the railway property [which we might want anyway], or the use of railway designs that minimise the amount of places that need powered equipment.
Fences really aren't much of a deterrent to people who are wanting to pinch cable. They just cut through them. Even if the amount of copper cable is reduced, there will still be significant disruption caused by people cutting fibre optic cable looking for copper.
It's a hard problem to solve, but the most effective things so far have been the increased use of covert cameras, random searches of scrapyards and banning cash sales of scrap metal.
Is that really feasible?Well in theory we could use GSM-R to control a lot of trackside equipment
I honestly don't know, but they are stuffing a hell of a lot of data through GSM-R these days, given signalling systems are controlled by TDM cables from the 80s, I don't think its totally unreasonable.Is that really feasible?
Tbf a lot of trackside equipment is connected remotely already. ETCS L2 would also remove a fair amount of requirements for track based equipment, such as signals.Is that really feasible?
Would a Wireless network for the signalling be possible/safe? Don't know much about whether wireless is a good idea though, would it bring loads of disadvantages eg it could get hacked?
Maybe more security cameras could be used on the copper cables to stop people stealing them.
Conversely, during the closure of the Woodhead route, the OHLE was de-energised during the day, where the track was being lifted (with cranes operating nearby!), then re-energised at night.During the very long and protracted electrification of the OSE main line between Athens and Thessaloniki, large lengths of copper contact wire were frequently 'liberated' at night time prior to energisation.
Both are trueCould you make whatever the cables are run through harder to access? E.g. if it's running through a trench, concrete over the top of the trench?
Or is anything that presents serious obstacles to the thieves also likely to make normal maintenance and repairs impossible?
I think that the presence of a third rail nearby acts as a deterrentHow does third rail stop signalling cable being stolen?