Theoretical Question: Can a HST powercar rescue a failed HST?

[Steddenm]

Say a GWR HST was to fail at Plymouth towards London would a spare powercar from Laira depot be able to rescue it either nose-to-nose or gangway to nose and effectively drag it into Laira depot? Or drag the failed powercar away from the set to Laira and then use the rescue powercar as a replacement?

I only ask because of a picture on here recently where an old InterCity West Coast HST was operating via the North Wales coast line with one powercar on the front - none on the rear.

Or would a loco or the 08 have to rescue the failed train?

 

[hexagon789]

Say a GWR HST was to fail at Plymouth towards London would a spare powercar from Laira depot be able to rescue it either nose-to-nose or gangway to nose and effectively drag it into Laira depot? Or drag the failed powercar away from the set to Laira and then use the rescue powercar as a replacement?

I only ask because of a picture on here recently where an old InterCity West Coast HST was operating via the North Wales coast line with one powercar on the front - none on the rear.

Or would a loco or the 08 have to rescue the failed train?

HST power cars can be and have been used to rescue failed HST sets, the emergency coupling is designed so that locos and HST power cars can both couple on.

 

[tnxrail]

There is a video on YouTube from a few years ago 2 HST power cars togeher resued a broken down set I believe not sure where they came from or were going.

 

[hexagon789]

There is a training video on YouTube which demonstrates rescue by both loco and power cars. I'll see if I can find it for you

 

[Jonny]

I suspect it might have to be nose-to-nose. However, HST power cars do come in pairs!

 

[gingertom]

I recall seeing a video of a class 66 (?) with a load of wagons propelling a failed HST through a station in the south-west. jaw-dropping stuff!

 

[Jonny]

I recall seeing a video of a class 66 (?) with a load of wagons propelling a failed HST through a station in the south-west. jaw-dropping stuff!

It was a Class 59 (same bodyshell though), and may not have passed through a (proper) station...

 

[gingertom]

It was a Class 59 (same bodyshell though), and may not have passed through a (proper) station...

that;s the one!

 

[Lytham Local]

There is a training video on YouTube which demonstrates rescue by both loco and power cars. I'll see if I can find it for you

Here you go

 

[gingertom]

or was it this one?

 

[hexagon789]

Here you go

Cheers

or was it this one?

I was thinking of the first one, but thanks all the same.

 

[JN114]

I suspect it might have to be nose-to-nose. However, HST power cars do come in pairs!

They would have to be nose to nose. Not possible to fit the emergency drawbar to the buckeye on the gangway end of the powercar.

 

[Steddenm]

Thanks all! Your info is most appreciated.

 

[RailAleFan]

It was a Class 59 (same bodyshell though), and may not have passed through a (proper) station...

How does control work in that kind of situation? Which drivers are where and doing what??!

 

[daikilo]

They would have to be nose to nose. Not possible to fit the emergency drawbar to the buckeye on the gangway end of the powercar.

The training video of the 67 being attached to an HST appears to show the drawbat being attached to a short connecting piece itself attached to the buckeye of the 67.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is this what you meant?

 

[HSTEd]

Aren't there pictures of a back to back pair of power cars be used as an ersatz locomotive on the Night Riviera?
Back when the 57s were sitting down every five minutes.

 

[Steddenm]

Aren't there pictures of a back to back pair of power cars be used as an ersatz locomotive on the Night Riviera?
Back when the 57s were sitting down every five minutes.

There's a video on YouTube:

 

[gingertom]

 

[Cowley]

There's a video on YouTube:

Yes, I’ve got a nice photo ripped off from someone online (can’t remember who now though) of such a thing passing through Totnes.
Here you go.

Pretty cool I reckon.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, I’ve got a nice photo ripped off from someone online (can’t remember who now though) of such a thing passing through Totnes.
Here you go.
View attachment 46226
Pretty cool I reckon.

Very nice and very impressive. Quite a load but I'm sure 4,500hp of HST power will have merely sniffed at it

 

[Cowley]

Very nice and very impressive. Quite a load but I'm sure 4,500hp of HST power will have merely sniffed at it

Definitely. It would have been interesting to see how it climbed Rattery...

 

[hexagon789]

Definitely. It would have been interesting to see how it climbed Rattery...

I can only dream of the noise it would have made with Valentas still fitted!

 

[Jonny]

There's a video on YouTube:

Were they allowed to carry passengers?

 

[tiptoptaff]

They would have to be nose to nose. Not possible to fit the emergency drawbar to the buckeye on the gangway end of the powercar.

The training video of the 67 being attached to an HST appears to show the drawbat being attached to a short connecting piece itself attached to the buckeye of the 67.

Thats because 1) HSTs have Tightlocks not traditional buckeys
2) VTEC built their own modified one, GWR have the original BR emergency coupling bars.

 

[GW43125]

How does control work in that kind of situation? Which drivers are where and doing what??!

Rescue Driver will be in the rescuing locomotive, driving. Train manager and driver remain in the HST and don’t do anything but can destroy the brake if there’s a problem

 

[43096]

Thats because 1) HSTs have Tightlocks not traditional buckeys
2) VTEC built their own modified one, GWR have the original BR emergency coupling bars.

HSTs do not have Tightlocks. Production power cars have Alliance couplers - these are basically fixed buckeyes. 41001 has a standard drop-head buckeye. An Alliance coupler can (and has) coupled to a buckeye.

The adapter to fit the swing coupler on a 67 is not a VTEC innovation, either - it was developed back in GNER days when the 67s replaced the 47s as Thunderbirds.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Getting the power car onto the front of a failed train might be fun with only one cab.

 

[Deepgreen]

Very nice and very impressive. Quite a load but I'm sure 4,500hp of HST power will have merely sniffed at it

With a 57 on a sleeper working weighing, say, 700-800 tons, and the stiff climb to follow, I suspect it would not have been so easy as you suggest. The tractive effort would not be high and slipping on the bank would be a threat.

 

[221129]

Getting the power car onto the front of a failed train might be fun with only one cab.

That's why a pair is always used.