Theresa May Resigns & Conservative Leader Election Discussion

[DarloRich]

Lastly he has given the Greenpeace intervention the publicity they could only dream of. Front page tomorrow, prominent in the Sundays.

Agreed - there would have been less damage if Spreadsheet Phil had invited the lady to address the crowd. Instead the Greenpeace message is all over the media and without Parliament in session to deflect attention will remain so for a couple of days.

If you think that was pretty horrifying and that the reaction was violent, then you need to reassess your thoughts on what qualifies as horrifying and violent. There is plenty of proper horrifying and violent stuff that goes on in this world, but that was not one of them. This was not just someone walking past, this was a protester who no one could know whether they had an ulterior motive or not.

Whilst I agree it was not, in the grand scheme of things, massively violent it was fairly violent for the setting: A black tie dinner for the great and the good of the business world at the Mansion House. They didn't invite Mike Ashley. This wasn't the Yates fighting lodge you know!

 

[AlterEgo]

Mark Field is an idiot.

The protestor posed no threat whatsoever and it is difficult to see how he could possibly have thought so. She was dressed in a ball gown and was quite obviously there to disrupt proceedings.

He was within his rights to rise from his seat and impede her, but he should never have pushed her into the pillar and should not have held her neck. I don't agree that what he did was "horrific" and feel sure he'd have treated a male protestor the same way, so all the harping along those lines by the victim brigade online can pop neatly back into its box as far as I'm concerned.

Field was clearly very annoyed his evening was about to be spoiled by a protestor and he simply lost his cool. You could see the annoyance and frustration in his face.

Had it been me, I feel sure I would have got out of my seat and stood in her way, but I wouldn't have laid hands on her. Simply getting up and impeding her would have brought others to also intervene and the situation would be managed in a much more civilised way.

The protestor had no right to be there but there are ways of dealing with these things and laying your hands on them is never going to play out well.

If I was PM I would ask him to resign from his ministerial post.

 

[DarloRich]

Mark Field is an idiot.

The protestor posed no threat whatsoever and it is difficult to see how he could possibly have thought so. She was dressed in a ball gown and was quite obviously there to disrupt proceedings.

He was within his rights to rise from his seat and impede her, but he should never have pushed her into the pillar and should not have held her neck. I don't agree that what he did was "horrific" and feel sure he'd have treated a male protestor the same way, so all the harping along those lines by the victim brigade online can pop neatly back into its box as far as I'm concerned.

Field was clearly very annoyed his evening was about to be spoiled by a protestor and he simply lost his cool. You could see the annoyance and frustration in his face.

Had it been me, I feel sure I would have got out of my seat and stood in her way, but I wouldn't have laid hands on her. Simply getting up and impeding her would have brought others to also intervene and the situation would be managed in a much more civilised way.

The protestor had no right to be there but there are ways of dealing with these things and laying your hands on them is never going to play out well.

If I was PM I would ask him to resign from his ministerial post.

A very sensible post. I agree entirely.

 

[Geezertronic]

Whilst I agree it was not, in the grand scheme of things, massively violent it was fairly violent for the setting: A black tie dinner for the great and the good of the business world at the Mansion House. They didn't invite Mike Ashley. This wasn't the Yates fighting lodge you know!

At the very most, it was common assault but I hope it doesn't come to that. Why did he react in that way, only he can tell. Would I have reacted similar in that situation, who knows. Would he have reacted the same way if the protester was a man, again who knows.

Unfortunately we live in a society where people seem to think they can do what they want without consequences. Anyone can put on a black tie or a dress and look the part to fit into the scenery. After the couple of milkshake lobbing instances, it's no wonder that some might feel they have to watch their own back, particularly as the political climate isn't great at the moment

The protestor posed no threat whatsoever and it is difficult to see how he could possibly have thought so. She was dressed in a ball gown and was quite obviously there to disrupt proceedings.

How can you determine that within the few seconds that they had? Anyone can put a black tie or a ball gown on to fit in with the scenery. Who knew at the time what the intentions were, particularly with the protesters haste to reach the front of the room

 

[DarloRich]

At the very most, it was common assault but I hope it doesn't come to that. Why did he react in that way, only he can tell. Would I have reacted similar in that situation, who knows. Would he have reacted the same way if the protester was a man, again who knows.

It is common assault. His problem is not the "blocking" of the protester or even the restraint. His issue is the forcing her into the pillar, grabbing her neck and the look of annoyance on his face when marching her away.

I doubt he will be charged as he is an MP and will have a decent brief.

Unfortunately we live in a society where people seem to think they can do what they want without consequences. Anyone can put on a black tie or a dress and look the part to fit into the scenery.

Exactly. Especially privileged Tories.

After the couple of milkshake lobbing instances, it's no wonder that some might feel they have to watch their own back, particularly as the political climate isn't great at the moment

oh you meant the woman................

 

[Geezertronic]

It is common assault. His problem is not the "blocking" of the protester or even the restraint. His issue is the forcing her into the pillar, grabbing her neck and the look of annoyance on his face when marching her away.

I doubt he will be charged as he is an MP and will have a decent brief.



Exactly. Especially privileged Tories.



oh you meant the woman................

Whatever political persuasion you are, you have a right to feel safe. Ba Dum Tss springs to mind

 

[DarloRich]

Whatever political persuasion you are, you have a right to feel safe

Indeed. However, there was no risk. There was no reduction in safety.

 

[DerekC]

Not just the Tories though. Corbyn, Farage - all awful.

Quite right, so bring back …...….. just who, exactly? Maybe that's another thread!

 

[takno]

If you think that was pretty horrifying and that the reaction was violent, then you need to reassess your thoughts on what qualifies as horrifying and violent. There is plenty of proper horrifying and violent stuff that goes on in this world, but that was not one of them. This was not just someone walking past, this was a protester who no one could know whether they had an ulterior motive or not.




So you've gone from from horrifying to appalling... and no this should not be career ending. If you consider that to be career ending, then again you need to reassess your thoughts. You have been quite emotive in your post

I've certainly used some emotive language in my post, as that is exactly what the situation demanded. You use rather more humdrum terms because you seem to be more indifferent - doesn't make your thoughts on the matter more valid or well thought-out and isn't particularly relevant.

I am appalled and horrified by the sight of an MP and government member physically attacking the opposition, and it's his political career that should be ending. If he did a different job I would hold him to different standards and would just be disgusted, but physical engagement is no way to conduct a political debate

 

[Geezertronic]

Indeed. However, there was no risk. There was no reduction in safety.

I really don't know how you can state that. Neither of us were there so that cannot be quantified. Like I said before, in the few seconds that they had, who knew what the intentions of the protesters were.

 

[Howardh]

If a passenger on a train walked into a carriage and started shouting and being a nuisance, with the possibility however unlikely of them assaulting another pax; would a guard be entitled to remove him/her in such a way, ie. by the throat?

 

[DerekC]

Just noting that there is now a thread for the events at Mansion House last night.

 

[Darandio]

Just noting that there is now a thread for the events at Mansion House last night.

Where? There was a thread that was locked last night because discussion is here.

 

[DarloRich]

I really don't know how you can state that. Neither of us were there so that cannot be quantified. Like I said before, in the few seconds that they had, who knew what the intentions of the protesters were.

I take your point, however; The women was armed with a sheaf of papers, a hand bag, a sash and a mobile phone. Unless she was going to inflict a particularly grievous paper cut, set about the chancellor with her bag ( Maggie T style perhaps) or take a terribly unflattering selfie I stand by my point.

If Mr Field had a reasonable assumption he or another was to be attacked ( and he must show this) he is entitled to use reasonable force to prevent that from happening. Reasonable force. Not unlimited, not excessive. Reasonable. I think he went beyond that. He went beyond that when he pushed this women into the pillar, grabbed her throat and neck and marched her away.

 

[AlterEgo]

I really don't know how you can state that. Neither of us were there so that cannot be quantified. Like I said before, in the few seconds that they had, who knew what the intentions of the protesters were.

If you watch the extended clip you’ll see that the first protestors were in the hall shouting and disrupting the event well over a minute before the woman in the red dress tried to get past Field.

There can be no mistaking that what was happening was a group of women shouting about climate change and getting led away. This was all happening for over 60 seconds. Field is bang out of line.

 

[Cowley]

A very sensible post. I agree entirely.

I agree too, apart from one thing. I bet he wouldn’t have been quite so quick to jump up and escort a male protester out who was larger than him...

 

[Geezertronic]

If you watch the extended clip you’ll see that the first protestors were in the hall shouting and disrupting the event well over a minute before the woman in the red dress tried to get past Field.

There can be no mistaking that what was happening was a group of women shouting about climate change and getting led away. This was all happening for over 60 seconds. Field is bang out of line.

So what you are saying is there was a disruption with protesters at the back then one protester tried to get to the front, to do what cannot be determined. The protester shouldn't have been there, could have had an ulterior motive, and neither you nor I can confirm or deny what could have happened. Who knew at the time what the protester was carrying especially in her bag.

So much for the supposed peaceful protest if they were causing disruption

 

[AlterEgo]

So what you are saying is there was a disruption with protesters at the back then one protester tried to get to the front, to do what cannot be determined. The protester shouldn't have been there, could have had an ulterior motive, and neither you nor I can confirm or deny what could have happened. Who knew at the time what the protester was carrying especially in her bag.

Have a look at the video before just making up what happened, because you’ve not even described the events properly.

 

[Geezertronic]

Have a look at the video before just making up what happened, because you’ve not even described the events properly.

I have seen the video thanks and it shows perfectly what happened. If you read my post you quoted, you will see I started it with "So what you are saying..." so are you making it up?

 

[takno]

So what you are saying is there was a disruption with protesters at the back then one protester tried to get to the front, to do what cannot be determined. The protester shouldn't have been there, could have had an ulterior motive, and neither you nor I can confirm or deny what could have happened. Who knew at the time what the protester was carrying especially in her bag.

So much for the supposed peaceful protest if they were causing disruption

Shouting a little bit doesn't make a protest non-peaceful, and the obsession with the bag is a little silly given that he wasn't at all focused on the bag. You're trying yourself in knots here.

 

[EM2]

Whatever political persuasion you are, you have a right to feel safe. Ba Dum Tss springs to mind

Yet no-one sprang into action to frogmarch Simon Brodkin away when he gave Theresa May a P45 at the Conservative Party Conference, and then approached Boris Johnson straight afterwards. Hmmm...

 

[EM2]

If you watch the extended clip you’ll see that the first protestors were in the hall shouting and disrupting the event well over a minute before the woman in the red dress tried to get past Field.

You'll also see that on the opposite side of the room, a man is shepherding another protester away without needing to grab her, shove her, and then hold her by the neck.

 

[AlterEgo]

Shouting a little bit doesn't make a protest non-peaceful, and the obsession with the bag is a little silly given that he wasn't at all focused on the bag. You're trying yourself in knots here.

Thank you. He wasn’t concerned about the bag or anything other than trying to forcibly eject her. He wasn’t afraid for anyone’s safety but rather was enraged at the gall of the protestors in disrupting the event.

 

[Geezertronic]

Shouting a little bit doesn't make a protest non-peaceful, and the obsession with the bag is a little silly given that he wasn't at all focused on the bag. You're trying yourself in knots here.

You're tying yourself in knots. A peaceful protest by its very description cannot be peaceful if people are disruptive and shouting. Also in that split second, no one could have known what the protesters intentions were. It's not as if he went all "John Prescott" was it. Whilst I will agree that the reaction was a little over the top, I still maintain that the intentions of the protester could not be immediately determined

 

[Esker-pades]

You're tying yourself in knots. A peaceful protest by its very description cannot be peaceful if people are disruptive and shouting. Also in that split second, no one could have known what the protesters intentions were. It's not as if he went all "John Prescott" was it. Whilst I will agree that the reaction was a little over the top, I still maintain that the intentions of the protester could not be immediately determined

It was not a split second. As stated before, the first protestors entered a minute before. They were demanding action on climate change and wearing big sashes with words on them.

He pinned her to the wall by her neck. How much more did he have to do in order to be "John Prescott". Further, being less violent than John Prescott is hardly great. That's like proudly proclaiming to be less smelly than the huge pile of dog turds adjacent.

"little" - Understatement of the year.

He was the only person in the room to react like that. Everyone else just led them out. Nobody except Mark Field felt the need to pin anyone against any walls by their neck.

 

[Ianno87]

Well, this looks slightly alarming...


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ed-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home

Police called to loud altercation at Boris Johnson's home
Neighbour records shouting and banging at flat potential PM shares with Carrie Symonds

Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.

The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.

A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.

 

[Typhoon]

** Intermission **

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home

Slight correction - its not Boris Johnson's home, he's just staying there.

 

[Typhoon]

Every cloud has a silver lining.

Good news for the neighbours - that recording is worth a few quid.

Good news for Mark Field - you may be pushed onto page 5.

 

[Cowley]

Good news for Jeremy Hunt, who must be feeling like Christmas has come early tonight...

 

[fowler9]

Apparently nothing happened and everyone was safe. The neighbour who reported the incident, a Mr J Hunt, is not convinced.

And just to stick my oar in Field should resign his position. What he did was pretty disgusting and I am convinced he wouldn't have done it if it was a bloke, I cannot prove that of course. If I did that in a similar high profile role in my company and it ended up all over the news and internet I would probably be encouraged to resign if I wasn't sacked first.