Theroetical scenarios

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DasLunatic

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I've been pondering some scenarios recently, referring to PLUSBUS.

1) I buy a PLUSBUS ticket to X. Whilst I am on the bus, my ticket is pick-pocketed and I get caught on board a bus without a ticket. Am I subject to the bus operator's penalty system or the laws of the railway where I purchased the ticket? If I am subject to the operator's penalty fare system, what laws could I be prosecuted under?

2) I board a bus from Y to Y's railway station. However, the bus is delayed and as a result, I miss my connection onto the train. The next train to my final destination is an hour's wait. If I send the bus operator my PLUSBUS ticket, can I get Delay Repay from the bus operator?

Thanks in advance.

This may have been posted to the wrong board: feel free to move this to the Disputes board if required.
 
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gray1404

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You are subject to the bus companys conditions of carriage, not the railway ones, in the event of being unable to produce a ticket.

In the event of a delay you would be subject to the bus companys own provisions for such. Many of which have no such provisions. Delay repay applies to some train companies and not bus companys.
 

AlterEgo

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1) I buy a PLUSBUS ticket to X. Whilst I am on the bus, my ticket is pick-pocketed and I get caught on board a bus without a ticket. Am I subject to the bus operator's penalty system or the laws of the railway where I purchased the ticket? If I am subject to the operator's penalty fare system, what laws could I be prosecuted under?

It would be the bus company's rules and any relevant byelaws. Railway Byelaws apply only on railway property.

2) I board a bus from Y to Y's railway station. However, the bus is delayed and as a result, I miss my connection onto the train. The next train to my final destination is an hour's wait. If I send the bus operator my PLUSBUS ticket, can I get Delay Repay from the bus operator?

No. You're shafted there.
 

MedwayValiant

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Somewhat less theoretical is the scenario where a bus driver refuses to accept an entirely valid PlusBus ticket, claiming that this is a B-U-S not a T-R-A-I-N (fortunately, I read this one on a forum and cannot vouch for it actually happening), that his company is no longer in the scheme (Uno drivers liked that line for a while), that he has never heard of PlusBus, or something else that is either untrue, ignorant, or both.

In fairness, this doesn't happen as much as it used to. But the people who run PlusBus are well aware that it's sometimes an issue and it hasn't completely gone away, as I discovered on an Arriva bus in Welwyn Garden City two weeks ago.

In theory, the passenger has a claim against the bus operator for the ticket they shouldn't have had to buy. Has anyone ever actually pursued it and had any joy?
 

najaB

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If I am subject to the operator's penalty fare system, what laws could I be prosecuted under?
Perhaps this?
Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 c. 14 PART II Regulation of conduct etc. of drivers said:
25 Regulation of conduct of passengers.

(1)Regulations may make provision generally as to the conduct of passengers on public service vehicles [F12 or tramcars] and in particular (but without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing provision) for—
(a) authorising the removal from a public service vehicle [F12 or tramcar] of a person infringing the regulations by the driver, inspector or conductor of the vehicle or on the request of the driver, inspector or conductor by a police constable;
(b) requiring a passenger in a public service vehicle [F12 or tramcar] who is reasonably suspected by the driver, inspector or conductor thereof of contravening the regulations to give his name and address to the driver, inspector or conductor on demand;
(c) requiring a passenger to declare, if so requested by the driver, inspector or conductor, the journey he intends to take or has taken in the vehicle, and to pay the fare for the whole of that journey and to accept any ticket provided therefor;
(d) requiring, on demand being made for the purpose by the driver, inspector or conductor, production during the journey and surrender at the end of the journey by the holder thereof of any ticket issued to him;
(e) requiring a passenger, if so requested by the driver, inspector or conductor, to leave the vehicle on the completion of the journey the fare for which he has paid;
(f) requiring the surrender by the holder thereof on the expiry of the period for which it is issued of a ticket issued to him.
(2). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(3)Subject to section 68(1) of this Act, if a person contravenes, or fails to comply with, a provision of regulations having effect by virtue of this section, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F14level 3 on the standard scale].

Which is quite similar to Railway Byelaw 18.2
 

bb21

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Somewhat less theoretical is the scenario where a bus driver refuses to accept an entirely valid PlusBus ticket, claiming that this is a B-U-S not a T-R-A-I-N (fortunately, I read this one on a forum and cannot vouch for it actually happening), that his company is no longer in the scheme (Uno drivers liked that line for a while), that he has never heard of PlusBus, or something else that is either untrue, ignorant, or both.

In fairness, this doesn't happen as much as it used to. But the people who run PlusBus are well aware that it's sometimes an issue and it hasn't completely gone away, as I discovered on an Arriva bus in Welwyn Garden City two weeks ago.

In theory, the passenger has a claim against the bus operator for the ticket they shouldn't have had to buy. Has anyone ever actually pursued it and had any joy?

Pay the fare required and claim it back from the bus company.

Having absolutely no cash is not a good idea, before anyone else claims so.
 

krus_aragon

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In theory, the passenger has a claim against the bus operator for the ticket they shouldn't have had to buy. Has anyone ever actually pursued it and had any joy?

Once, my wife was told by an Arriva driver that the validity boundary started four stops down the road, and was asked to buy a ticket to that stop. I submitted a complaint to Arriva, and they sent two complimentary travel tickets in compensation.

On another occasion, when Arriva had accidentally dropped some varieties of the North Wales Rover (zonal train/bus ticket) when reprogramming their ticket machines, they reimbursed me in the same manner.
 

sheff1

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Pay the fare required and claim it back from the bus company.

On the occasions I have had this happen to me (Chester, Oxford & Glasgow) I have paid the fare required, which was exactly £0.00. When I have already paid for, and presented, a valid ticket I have absolutely no intention of paying again. Far easier to stand one's ground, in my view, than try and claim back a fare which was not due in the first place.
 

bb21

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On the occasions I have had this happen to me (Chester, Oxford & Glasgow) I have paid the fare required, which was exactly £0.00. When I have already paid for, and presented, a valid ticket I have absolutely no intention of paying again. Far easier to stand one's ground, in my view, than try and claim back a fare which was not due in the first place.

Then if the driver stood his ground and took the key out, good luck getting somewhere.

Not saying right or wrong, just looking at things realistically. Some drivers won't care, some will not budge.
 

clagmonster

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If you have no ticket on the bus you are liable for the standard fare of £35
That will vary depending on bus operator. Of course, any could prosecute instead using the legislation outlined, just as a train operating company could prosecute instead of charging a penalty fare.
 
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