things the rail industry do to intentionally set passengers up for buying a new ticke

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34D

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Just reading the thread about someone who forgot a railcard and had to pay £85 for a new ticket.

How simple would it be to require the railcard number to be entered on all eligible tickets (which could be done online or in the ticket office) which would neatly cover off the assertion that a railcard doesn't exist.

Any other small changes that the rail industry could make which would reduce the chances of passengers being set up for a fall?

At the moment, the only other suggestion is entering a travelcard/freedom pass number onto a boundary zone x extension ticket - again see a recent thread on here about a disabled freedom pass being used on LO and then Southern.
 
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Mike395

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How simple would it be to require the railcard number to be entered on all eligible tickets (which could be done online or in the ticket office) which would neatly cover off the assertion that a railcard doesn't exist.
Not very - unless you want to add significantly to ticket office and TVM queues as people type in their railcard number!. There would need to be a way of scanning or swiping the railcard before this would be feasible. You would also need to redesign the tickets, as there is no place currently to fit the R/C number.
 

blackfive460

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This kind of thing won't happen (if it ever does) until we have a national smart card capable of holding tickets, railcards, etc., as Oyster does currently.
I won't be holding my breath then.
 

Bungle73

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Even if you put a railcard number on the ticket what's to stop two people using two different tickets with the same number?
 

Mike395

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Nothing, but of course they'd need to be able to produce the railcard when requested by staff doing ticket checks!
Which would make the whole thing pointless, as people will just type in a mate's number to travel without a railcard, rather than none as they do now - which I would argue makes the whole suggestion fairly pointless.
 

Urban Gateline

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But the whole point of putting the number on the ticket was if you didn't have the railcard with you.
If that's the case, I think it's a ridiculous suggestion, making fare evasion easier, as Mike 395 said people can just enter someone elses railcard number. This would also take longer to check if the Guards/RPI had to type the railcard number into a system to check who the railcard belongs to. That would be an overly complicated and even more open to abuse system...
 

Brucey

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And it would increase the number of people travelling without a railcard, claiming they presented it when buying the ticket and didn't think it would need to be checked again!
 

Greenback

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And it would increase the number of people travelling without a railcard, claiming they presented it when buying the ticket and didn't think it would need to be checked again!
Good point. It sound sas though this suggestion would lead to slower ticket issuing, slower ticket checking and be even mor eopen open to abuse than the current system.

I don't really see how the industyr has set people up for a fall - after all it is not the industry or TOC's that make passengers forget their railcard.

I have, however, previously argued in favour of suggestions that railcard holders should be allowed one lapse of memory per year, similar to monthly and lobger season holders, but the consensus was that this would not be workable either.
 

34D

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Even if you put a railcard number on the ticket what's to stop two people using two different tickets with the same number?
The details would be written to a database, such that it can see that John Smith bought a CDR for monday morning (etc etc).

This kind of thing won't happen (if it ever does) until we have a national smart card capable of holding tickets, railcards, etc., as Oyster does currently.
I won't be holding my breath then.
Very fair comment, but unless a smart card is to become compulsory a fall-back paper system would be good.
 
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Bellwater

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Just reading the thread about someone who forgot a railcard and had to pay £85 for a new ticket.

How simple would it be to require the railcard number to be entered on all eligible tickets (which could be done online or in the ticket office) which would neatly cover off the assertion that a railcard doesn't exist.

Any other small changes that the rail industry could make which would reduce the chances of passengers being set up for a fall?
People could remember to bring their Railcard..
 

cuccir

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People could remember to bring their Railcard..
Yeah, well, folk forget stuff.

In truth, there are lots of things which could be done, but all take one or more of: time, ongoing cost, investment. It is unlikely that the advantages (slightly improved customer relations) will outweigh these costs. Therefore on a commercially-run network, there is no hope of any change unless, as has been pointed out above, it can be tacked at little extra cost onto the wider introduction of smart-card ticketing.
 

Bungle73

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People could remember to bring their Railcard..
Indeed. Maybe instead of thinking it's someone else's problem when they make a mistake, people could accept the consequences of their own actions. There are lots of things that cause problems in life if you forget to have them with you.
 

Bellwater

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Yeah, well, folk forget stuff.

In truth, there are lots of things which could be done, but all take one or more of: time, ongoing cost, investment. It is unlikely that the advantages (slightly improved customer relations) will outweigh these costs. Therefore on a commercially-run network, there is no hope of any change unless, as has been pointed out above, it can be tacked at little extra cost onto the wider introduction of smart-card ticketing.
Nail on Head Cuccir. I was too much in Sarcasm mode to give a reply.
 

SS4

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£85 quid for a new ticket or approx £20-25 for a brand new railcard, I know which i would buy?
IIRC the thread in question was when the guard would not let the passenger off at the next station to do exactly that and the customer was intimidated into buying a new ticket. Perhaps they could have refused to pay and got off at the next station anyway and appeal the guard but it's not my place to dwell on what ifs.

-----------------------------------------------

Why should the TOCs have to spend time or money because customers are forgetful? It would be nice but nothing is free in this world
 

Bellwater

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We have a culture in the UK where nobody will admit to making a mistake.. Its never their fault and if you shout the loudest you can get away with anything.
 

90019

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How about everyone who travels on the railway should have to pay for a minder that will stay with them and make sure they don't forget anything.
That would solve the problem of people forgetting things.


Or, perhaps people could actually take some personal responsibility and not try to blame everyone except themselves when they make a mistake.
 

lyesbkz

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Speaking for the main national railcards, it seems that £28 offers an excellent value card which carries some very good savings. It's made quite clear that if you don't have your railcard with you, then you will need to purchase a new ticket. Therefore if somebody makes the mistake of forgetting their railcard then they should be able to accept that it is exactly that - their mistake - and that time they'll just have to buy the new ticket. That's how it works.

They may even have saved more than the cost of the new ticket in railcard savings, meaning they'd still not be paying any more than Joe Public for their year of rail travel. It's not particularly unfair, really.
 

GadgetMan

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We have a culture in the UK where nobody will admit to making a mistake.. Its never their fault and if you shout the loudest you can get away with anything.
This is so true;

Excuses we've all heard....

I've left my railcard at home it not my fault....,

My mum/brother/aunt's uncle bought the ticket for me. Not my fault it's the wrong one.....

My wallet got stolen, not my fault....

I've lost my ticket, it's not my fault....

List goes on and on.

I will disagree on the last part. With me those that shout the loudest have the least discretion shown. Those that take responsibility and remain polite are more likely to be given some leeway on my trains.
 

Bellwater

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This is so true;

Excuses we've all heard....

I've left my railcard at home it not my fault....,

My mum/brother/aunt's uncle bought the ticket for me. Not my fault it's the wrong one.....

My wallet got stolen, not my fault....

I've lost my ticket, it's not my fault....

List goes on and on.

I will disagree on the last part. With me those that shout the loudest have the least discretion shown. Those that take responsibility and remain polite are more likely to be given some leeway on my trains.
Same Here.
 

Yew

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Personally I'm on favour of just having. Youth/student fares and OAP fares. I mean it works on the continent
 

GadgetMan

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I still think the best way to do away with all problems is to have an honesty box at the exit to all stations. Ofcourse I believe everyone in this country will put in the correct amount for their journey and nobody would even think of breaking into it and stealing the cash.
 

Urban Gateline

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I still think the best way to do away with all problems is to have an honesty box at the exit to all stations. Ofcourse I believe everyone in this country will put in the correct amount for their journey and nobody would even think of breaking into it and stealing the cash.
Haha I got as far as the word "honesty" and then I knew you were talking bull**** :lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Personally I'm on favour of just having. Youth/student fares and OAP fares. I mean it works on the continent
Hmm but then people will still try to buy "youth" tickets when they are over the age that it permits, and it will mean restructuring of all the fares, as children and 16-25's may then end up paying the same fare, so travel will get more expensive for children most likely!

Basically what you propose will most likely result in less revenue for the Railways, which in turn would mean an increase in Government subsidy needed, shooting yourself in the foot really just to try and get an easier system!
 

brompton rail

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Yeah, well, folk forget stuff.

In truth, there are lots of things which could be done, but all take one or more of: time, ongoing cost, investment. It is unlikely that the advantages (slightly improved customer relations) will outweigh these costs. Therefore on a commercially-run network, there is no hope of any change unless, as has been pointed out above, it can be tacked at little extra cost onto the wider introduction of smart-card ticketing.
People do forget! If I go to Tesco, get to till and say "sorry I forgot my wallet but here is my credit card number(but I forgot to bring it,)" Tesco will say " leave the goods here and close the door behind you". If I forget my Senior Bus Pass do I get to ride for free? No.
 
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GadgetMan

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The railway does NOT set people up for a fall. In nearly all cases passengers dig their own grave and knowingly jump in head first.

Some passengers do end up being penalised for railway employees mistakes though. A good guard will usually get to the bottom of what's happened and will deal with it appropriately.

Eg. A lady got on my train on Friday with a Advance for travelling an hour later. When questioned she was adamant the ticket office had made a mistake as she'd made clear this was the train she wanted to travel on.

At this point we'd all think "yeah right" and charge for an excess/new ticket or give her the option of waiting for her booked train at the next station.

She then showed me an itenarary printed at exactly the same time as her tickets by the same clerk for my train.

This made it clear the clerk had screwed up. So I gave her a zero fare excess to an Anytime Single and a apology.


Here's the big question; had she not got a printed itenarary from the clerk, would I have believed her? I'm sorry to say no I wouldn't and on this occasion I would have been wrong. We could say the passenger should always check tickets are correct, but this does not excuse us making mistakes.

On a related note I am coming across ticket office issuing errors more frequently than I ever have before. Not sure if it's an unusual peak or whether it will continue.
 

DaveNewcastle

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Personally I'm on favour of just having. Youth/student fares and OAP fares.
Are you?
Then what is your explanation to those who will be disadvantaged by your proposal:
a) those who currently qualify for a Senior Railcard but are not old enough to receive a pension?
b) those who qualify for a Disabled Person's Railcard but would not qualify for a YPRC or SRC
c), d), e), f) those who qualify for a Family & Friends, Network RC, Two Together RC, other dozen or so locally funded Regional Railcards?
g) those who qualify for a HM Forces Railcard?
h) those who qualify for a TOC Privelige Card?

I mean it works on the continent
What are the other benefits of your proposal?
 

hairyhandedfool

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....How simple would it be to require the railcard number to be entered on all eligible tickets (which could be done online or in the ticket office) which would neatly cover off the assertion that a railcard doesn't exist....
Once stuff is programmed, it'd be dead simple, of course you'd have to put it on website sales (open to abuse), telesales (open to abuse) and TVMs (open to abuse).

But all of that is pointless because a condition of the railcard is that you show it when using a ticket discounted by that railcard. If you can't you have to buy a new ticket and get a refund on the discounted ticket (Not open to abuse).

....Any other small changes that the rail industry could make which would reduce the chances of passengers being set up for a fall?...
I must admit I did see a bunch of undercover, telepathic [TOC] staff literally willing people to forget their Railcard as they left their houses for their rail journey yesterday. I'd never noticed them before, but there they were, clear as day, it was disgraceful!

I'm joking of course, but why is it passengers are seen as hard done by when they get things wrong (and are correctly treated), but staff are lambasted for getting things wrong.......actually, scrub those last three words and replace them with 'anything they do'!

Personally I'm on favour of just having. Youth/student fares and OAP fares. I mean it works on the continent
So how do we know if someone with a youth/student ticket is a youth/student? Hmmmm, well, why don't we give them an ID card that they have to carry around (or buy a new ticket), maybe with a photo and a date of birth or something, yeah that would work, and if they don't have one they have to buy a new ticket? We need a snazzy name for it mind you, something that says what it is..... Hmmmm....Okay so it's or the railway and it is made of card....Hmmmm.....Ahhh, I've got it! How about "a Railcard"! That is genius! I wonder why the railway hasn't thought of it yet!
 
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