"This is due to waiting on a train member"?

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bAzTNM

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Checking the Scotrail information page this morning and a few of these have appeared.

What does it exactly mean? Is it just the train is waiting on a ticket examiner to turn up? Thanks a lot!
 
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MCR247

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Yes, but not as in to turn up for work, but services get their guards from incoming services which may be delayed, or they have to have their PNB
 

KA4C

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Checking the Scotrail information page this morning and a few of these have appeared.

What does it exactly mean? Is it just the train is waiting on a ticket examiner to turn up? Thanks a lot!

It usually means that the train is waiting a member of the train crew, who has been delayed elsewhere on their duties, as per the recently locked "guard having dinner" thread
 
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Yes, but not as in to turn up for work, but services get their guards from incoming services which may be delayed, or they have to have their PNB
I don't agree. If the member had been delayed during their shift, I would put the delay down to the original cause (or possibly to 'a delay on a previous journey'). I would reserve 'waiting for a train crew member' for those instances where the person is late getting to work (which may or may not be their fault).
 

AlterEgo

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Yes but the customer wouldn't understand or accept that, as the physical train would more than likely be in the platform right before their eyes! "Awaiting a member of train crew" is factually correct.
 

gswindale

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I don't agree. If the member had been delayed during their shift, I would put the delay down to the original cause (or possibly to 'a delay on a previous journey'). I would reserve 'waiting for a train crew member' for those instances where the person is late getting to work (which may or may not be their fault).
I'm going to disagree there.
"A delay on a previous journey" to me refers to the actual train itself not being there and thus our service running late.
"waiting for a member of the train crew" refers to one where for whatever reason the member of staff is not currently available (i.e. late running service with a different train or as described previously).
 
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Yes but the customer wouldn't understand or accept that, as the physical train would more than likely be in the platform right before their eyes! "Awaiting a member of train crew" is factually correct.
You are entitled to your opinion, but as I do this for a living, I do speak with some authority here. In fact, our traincrew managers get quite irritated if a late start is attributed to 'traincrew' when it's not the crew's fault that they are not where they should be on their diagram.
 

Schnellzug

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I'm going to disagree there.
"A delay on a previous journey" to me refers to the actual train itself not being there and thus our service running late.
"waiting for a member of the train crew" refers to one where for whatever reason the member of staff is not currently available (i.e. late running service with a different train or as described previously).
I do agree there. "A delay on a previous journey" just sounds like taking the mick, as the train is clearly and evidently there in front of you.
 
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I do agree there. "A delay on a previous journey" just sounds like taking the mick, as the train is clearly and evidently there in front of you.
As I said, most of the time the delay would be attributed to the root cause. There is just the odd occasion when this would seem to be 'taking the mick' (for example, attributing a delay to 'snow earlier' when, in fact, there hadn't been any snow at the point of departure). So, if there is a train in the platform waiting for an incoming crew who have been delayed due to a series of track circuit failures, the delay would be described as 'due to earlier signalling problems'.
 

michael769

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This type of situation is lose-lose for a ToC.

Even if you tell folks that the crew member is on a delayed train, they likely reponse is "why not get someone else".

The average passenger will not really care that a ToCs staffing is cut to the bone and had no slack for such eventualities.
 

Failed Unit

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You get this a lot on East Coast when the Crew change at Newcastle. You are on the train it is on-time, you can't move until the crew arrive from London / Edinburgh. I think it is a good piece of information, east coast train arrives, a few minutes later you leave. Never had an extra delay because of PNB.

I remember back in WAGN days you often had a train but no driver, but I understand they try and keep the two together now (no idea if it works or not)
 

DownSouth

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I reckon that something like "train crew member/s delayed" is the right way to describe it for the information screens where the communication needs to be clear, brief and honest. For service status pages on the internet and for the formal reporting process, more detailed information can be given which refers to the root cause of the crew being delayed.

I don't think it's a good idea to say "train delayed by <cause of earlier disruption>" when the train is sitting there. It's in that dubious area halfway between a truth and a lie, and it also hides the fact that more flexible staff rostering arrangements could have avoided that train being delayed.

I think the majority of people employed as train crew should be mature enough to not take it personally.
 

Failed Unit

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For interest what is the longest a train crew does?

I have seen gaurds / catering crew do London - Edinburgh but I suspect the driver does not. I know Norwich - Liverpool change at Nottingham and Xc will never get from A-b but how long can they remain on duty? How much is this extended in severe disruption before the drivers become out of hours? You will often see the Southbound 0755 Inverness - London delayed if the northbound was badly delayed the previous evening to allow the driver to recover.
 

Aictos

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For interest what is the longest a train crew does?

I have seen gaurds / catering crew do London - Edinburgh but I suspect the driver does not. I know Norwich - Liverpool change at Nottingham and Xc will never get from A-b but how long can they remain on duty? How much is this extended in severe disruption before the drivers become out of hours? You will often see the Southbound 0755 Inverness - London delayed if the northbound was badly delayed the previous evening to allow the driver to recover.
Guards wouldn't do London to Edinburgh - they would along with the driver change at Newcastle.

Catering crews on the other hand do go all the way.
 

Failed Unit

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:oops:
Guards wouldn't do London to Edinburgh - they would along with the driver change at Newcastle.

Catering crews on the other hand do go all the way.
:oops: - thinking about it they do change at Newcastle as well, just don't pay that much attention as it is rare to get my ticket re-checked.
 

AlterEgo

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You are entitled to your opinion, but as I do this for a living, I do speak with some authority here. In fact, our traincrew managers get quite irritated if a late start is attributed to 'traincrew' when it's not the crew's fault that they are not where they should be on their diagram.
I also do this for a living. I can tell you the passenger simply would not understand why their train is not moving if it is physically there in front of them and they're being told it's "due to a delay on a previous journey"! The reason the train isn't moving is because it is awaiting a member of train crew. This, the layman can easily digest. By all means say "awaiting train crew who have been delayed on a previous journey", but I am not sure that would fit onto a CIS.
 

Minilad

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I think the majority of people employed as train crew should be mature enough to not take it personally.
Hard not to take it personally though when you walk down the platform and people are asking "where the **** have you been" and "try to make it on time next time you wanker"

Ahhhh our lovely passengers who we should respect so much
 

Failed Unit

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Hard not to take it personally though when you walk down the platform and people are asking "where the **** have you been" and "try to make it on time next time you wanker"

Ahhhh our lovely passengers who we should respect so much
That is sad - I am glad I have never witnessed that. I can see how it may be viewed that the crew were late getting out of bed by some. Luckily the stations I have needed to wait at explicitly state the inbound service the crew are on and it's ETA. Simple communications make life easier for everyone.
 

Minilad

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That is sad - I am glad I have never witnessed that. I can see how it may be viewed that the crew were late getting out of bed by some. Luckily the stations I have needed to wait at explicitly state the inbound service the crew are on and it's ETA. Simple communications make life easier for everyone.
Thing is we hear a lot about how the railway should improve communication. Sometimes though it doesn't matter, sometimes people just won't accept what is told and will continue to believe the world revolves around them. Doesn't matter what you say to these people. They will never accept it
 
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