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Thoughts on Compartments

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Whistler40145

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I remember Compartment stock, mainly Mark 1s on the Regional Railways Blackpool Club trains, I also remember the Pilkingtons liveried charter train set. I wasn't much of a fan of them, much preferred Open feeling.
 
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4 EPB unit 5115 and this was one of 4 unique units with nine compartments instead of the standard ten. These were originally built as composite carriages in the 1940s for 4 Sub units but I don't think they ever ran in service as composites - I'm sure somebody will correct me
[PEDANT]
If there were 4 of them, they weren't unique!
[/PEDANT]
 

yorksrob

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4 EPB unit 5115 and this was one of 4 unique units with nine compartments instead of the standard ten. These were originally built as composite carriages in the 1940s for 4 Sub units but I don't think they ever ran in service as composites - I'm sure somebody will correct me

Yes, some of the compartments were plusher as they were built as first class (but never were). According to some books I have, they were some of the carriages originally inserted in the wooden bodied SUB's and re-used.

Sadly, I never got to try one out as most of the compartment carriages had been opened/swapped out by the time of my EPB travelling days.
 

Ken H

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the sort of compartment stock where you have no corridor in the carriage was mentioned as useful for 'ladies of the night' who used them for business on the service between Charing Cross and Canon Street. Then they spoiled it by opening Waterloo(east)! District Railway killed the service off.


(No quote. i read this in Londons Termini, by Jackson many years ago. no idea where my copy is now)
 
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Mikey C

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the sort of compartment stock where you have no corridor in the carriage was mentioned as useful for 'ladies of the night' who used them for business on the service between Charing Cross and Canon Street. Then they spoiled it by opening Waterloo(east)! District Railway killed the service off.

You'd have to get a move on!
 

Mag_seven

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Travelled from Italy to Austria today in compartment stock. It was great to be able to turn the lights out and control the temperature. Clearly European railways have no issues with them.
 

Mogz

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I’ll second that!

I say give the travelling public the option.
 

dubscottie

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Compartment stock has its uses. The old Motorail trains gave one compartment to each car so the family etc could relax.

I remember breaking a mans glasses when I was about 5 in a compartment. I was travelling with my dad and some old guy thought it would be funny to grab me and go BOO! as the train went trough a tunnel (the coach had no lights). I punched him!

My dad worked for BR and had an office next to the old platform 19 in Edinburgh Waverley. The guy followed us and got a voucher to get the glasses fixed!

Glass compartments like they have in Germany or something similar to the Mk4 PO that the Queen travelled in would be popular I think.
 

jamesontheroad

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Most commenters agree that 4/6/8 seat compartments are not desirable for the single traveller or couple.

VR Finnish Railways might have the solution! Their double decker intercity rolling stock uses the small “mezzanine” level at one end of the carriage, over the bogies and adjacent to the passage to the next car, for a 1+1 and a 2+2 compartment.

Here’s the plan of the typical 2nd class carriage. The small pair of compartments are on the left. In this carriage they are designated as “working cabins” for meetings or colleagues; in other carriages they are reserved for passengers with severe allergies.

upload_2019-5-31_5-58-9.png

Source: https://www.vr.fi/cs/vr/en/intercity_kuvasto_en

Note that these carriages also have lockable luggage compartments, for secure luggage storage out of sight of your seat.

There’s a decent walk-through video of such a rake of carriages on YouTube here, which shows the compartments briefly in two of the carriages.

 
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RLBH

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VR Finnish Railways might have the solution! Their double decker intercity rolling stock uses the small “mezzanine” level at one end of the carriage, over the bogies and adjacent to the passage to the next car, for a 1+1 and a 2+2 compartment.
VR intercity stock is brilliant - although they benefit from being engineered by Russians, so the loading gauge is 5.3 metres high by 3.75 metres wide, and they use low-level platforms, so headroom simply isn't a concern. The sleeping car compartments feel like ballrooms compared to British stock!
 

Mogz

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Works on DB.

Given they’re the parent company of some of our TOC’s is there any reason we shouldn’t have the option when German passengers should?
 

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hexagon789

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Works on DB.

Given they’re the parent company of some of our TOC’s is there any reason we shouldn’t have the option when German passengers should?

DB isn't quite the same as GB TOCs though, and to my mind space is one issue (compartments are rather wasteful of it), among other things. It is far easier for people to indulge in antisocial behaviour in enclosed compartments than in an open saloon where you can see end-to-end.
 

hexagon789

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That picture tells you everything - all but two open coach seats chosen, compartments largely empty.

I think that says something...

I don't get the feeling there's much demand for compartments in the UK anyway, passengers want a seat and open saloons provide more space for that than compartments.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think that says something...

I don't get the feeling there's much demand for compartments in the UK anyway, passengers want a seat and open saloons provide more space for that than compartments.

The other aspect of compartments is that ideally everyone wants a unit of seating for their travelling group (which is most often 1 or 2 people). Above that it feels crowded even if it in fact isn't.

First Class single seats offer the best utilisation here - a unit of seating is one seat.
2+2 Standard is slightly better - a unit of seating is either 2 or 4 seats.
Compartments are worst - it's 6 or 8.

In the 90s I did loads of travel on DB with a compartment to myself, it was great but that isn't economic or environmentally sensible. But as soon as someone else moved in it was no fun, and some people might find it threatening.
 

hexagon789

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The other aspect of compartments is that ideally everyone wants a unit of seating for their travelling group (which is most often 1 or 2 people). Above that it feels crowded even if it in fact isn't.

First Class single seats offer the best utilisation here - a unit of seating is one seat.
2+2 Standard is slightly better - a unit of seating is either 2 or 4 seats.
Compartments are worst - it's 6 or 8.

In the 90s I did loads of travel on DB with a compartment to myself, it was great but that isn't economic or environmentally sensible. But as soon as someone else moved in it was no fun, and some people might find it threatening.

That's also part of the issue, even when only partly full, some people are put off going in to sit down and thus seats are sometimes wasted as well as the issue with passenger security.
 
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In the 90s I did loads of travel on DB with a compartment to myself, it was great but that isn't economic or environmentally sensible. But as soon as someone else moved in it was no fun, and some people might find it threatening.
This,

I've been made to feel uncomfortable and gone to find another seat at tables in open coaches, sometimes these people also take offence when you decide to leave too. In an open coach it's difficult, in a compartment with a door it'd be really intimidating.

The idea of having a space to yourself on a train is appealing, but maybe it'd be done better with more partitions in coaches, or pod seats of some sort. Something along the lines of the privacy dividers you get in business class airline seats might work?
 

duffield

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Before my wife died we always made a bee-line for the compartments on heritage railways so we could yap away and laugh loudly (etc.) without annoying anyone else, but now I'm on my own I tend to favour open coaches to get a bit of human contact and a better view/more light.

When I was on the IOWSR (Isle of Wight Steam Railway) recently, the train consisting of non-corridor compartment stock, I boarded an empty compartment and then at the next stop I was asked to leave by a large party so they could have the entire compartment and all sit down. I thought that was a bit of a cheek...I would probably have done so by myself as it was a bit awkward but even so...
 

andythebrave

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Strictly speaking it was a 4 berth couchette but as we were all up all night....

Many moons ago I travelled from Vilnius to Kiev overnight and was allocated a berth in a compartment with:
1. A Red Army colonel
2. A travelling salesman
3. A farmer's wife
Fortunately, the military chap had a copious supply of ale and we spent the following 16 hours in a most convivial way.
Compartments are great if you have the right mix but the likelihood of that happening here is more remote than it is elsewhere.
 

hwl

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Works on DB.

Given they’re the parent company of some of our TOC’s is there any reason we shouldn’t have the option when German passengers should?
Passenger safety...
You may not remember the incidents that led to these lessons being learnt.
 

bramling

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When I was on the IOWSR (Isle of Wight Steam Railway) recently, the train consisting of non-corridor compartment stock, I boarded an empty compartment and then at the next stop I was asked to leave by a large party so they could have the entire compartment and all sit down. I thought that was a bit of a cheek...I would probably have done so by myself as it was a bit awkward but even so...

That is indeed a cheek, and does highlight one of the issues with compartments. One could tell them to stuff it, but then you'd probably get them come in anyway and make the journey unpleasant.

However unpleasant experiences happen in open carriages as well, so on balance personally I'd say the benefits of compartments outweigh the potential pitfalls. Naturally I wouldn't advocate anything more than a mix of compartment and open carriages.
 

Bletchleyite

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That is indeed a cheek, and does highlight one of the issues with compartments. One could tell them to stuff it, but then you'd probably get them come in anyway and make the journey unpleasant.

"Excuse me, would you mind if..."? = me moving
"You will move" = no I won't, just try lifting all 20 stone of me if you like

I'm quite strict on that in life in general. Ask nicely, you get. Demand, no chance, you get what you're legally entitled to and not a tiny thing more.
 

43094

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There was one carriage used on the Cumbrian Coast 37 turns for a little while which had compartments, prior to the DBSOs being used.
 

HamworthyGoods

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When did the last compartement stock run in UK? Third rail MK1s ?

We still have compartment stock on the GB Network - the Cornish and Scottish overnights have a mixture of compartments (sleeping) and opens (seated), sleeping cars in some countries can be opens not compartments.

In terms of seated compartments for a while one of the Barrow/Carlisle mk2 sets had a Mk2d BFK in it.
 

bramling

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"Excuse me, would you mind if..."? = me moving
"You will move" = no I won't, just try lifting all 20 stone of me if you like

I'm quite strict on that in life in general. Ask nicely, you get. Demand, no chance, you get what you're legally entitled to and not a tiny thing more.

Problem is that doesn’t resolve the last bit of what I posted, namely that you know they will then inevitably make you out as the bad guy and thus ensure your journey is unpleasant. Having said that, life experience has found some gentle mitigations to this!
 

DerekC

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There is the old story of the vicar who always got a compartment to himself by leaning out at stations (with dog collar on display) and smiling and beckoning to people on the platform!
 
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