Thunderbird drag from Kings X to Neville Hill.

greyman42

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On Tuesday 28 September at 1547, a class 91 set was dragged from Kings Cross to Neville Hill. Does anyone know what happened regarding its earlier arrival into Kings Cross?
 
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800001

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On Tuesday 28 September at 1547, a class 91 set was dragged from Kings Cross to Neville Hill. Does anyone know what happened regarding its earlier arrival into Kings Cross?
It arrived in passenger service, a chip in the pantograph head was observed, so its return working was cancelled.
Thunderbird hauled it north to prevent any damage to overheads or the loco.
 

greyman42

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It arrived in passenger service, a chip in the pantograph head was observed, so its return working was cancelled.
Thunderbird hauled it north to prevent any damage to overheads or the loco.
Thanks. Someone must of been sharp eyed to spot that. Is it part of anyone's check list?
 

800001

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Thanks. Someone must of been sharp eyed to spot that. Is it part of anyone's check list?
Platform staff, will look.
But also drivers prior to working the set will also look. It was a sizeable chunk missing from the carbon on the pan head.
Several Azumas also suffered damage but were able to utilise the other pantograph.
 

greyman42

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Platform staff, will look.
But also drivers prior to working the set will also look. It was a sizeable chunk missing from the carbon on the pan head.
Several Azumas also suffered damage but were able to utilise the other pantograph.
Will anyone know specifically when the damage occurred?
 

Pigeon

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Platform staff, will look.
But also drivers prior to working the set will also look. It was a sizeable chunk missing from the carbon on the pan head.

Still must have been pretty sharp eyed to be able to see something facing upwards on the highest spot on the train. How do they do that? Surely you would need a scaff tower on the platform to climb up to get the sight of it. Or do they get the station pigeons to help look?
 

800001

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Still must have been pretty sharp eyed to be able to see something facing upwards on the highest spot on the train. How do they do that? Surely you would need a scaff tower on the platform to climb up to get the sight of it. Or do they get the station pigeons to help look?
You can quite clearly see when there is damage to the carbon on a pantograph.
Drivers and platform staff are more than capable of noticing such things from platform level.
 

DanNCL

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This is getting ridiculous now. It’s being going on for weeks, and some of the 91s (119 being one of them) have been sent back to Neville Hill with chipped pantograph heads multiple times in the last few weeks. They couldn’t track down what’s causing these chips soon enough.

I don’t know if this is any use to those trying to trace the issue or not, but this photo I took of the same loco in P6 at Leeds just two and a half hours before the chipped pantograph head was discovered at Kings Cross shows the pantograph quite well. Unless I’m missing something, the pantograph head appears to be fine in this photo, so that would suggest that whatever caused the damage is on the Southbound main line between Leeds and Kings Cross, which whilst still a large area would narrow down the search significantly as it would rule out the wires on any track that 91119 didn’t cover during those couple of hours.
6FFB3AE2-2B0D-4274-8ECC-37E895C2FF7B.jpeg

Pam cam footage will be checked, but Network Rail will certainly hunting down the damaged area
The 91s don't have pantograph cameras, unless they’ve been retrofitted very recently.
 

800001

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This is getting ridiculous now. It’s being going on for weeks, and some of the 91s (119 being one of them) have been sent back to Neville Hill with chipped pantograph heads multiple times in the last few weeks. They couldn’t track down what’s causing these chips soon enough.

I don’t know if this is any use to those trying to trace the issue or not, but this photo I took of the same loco in P6 at Leeds just two and a half hours before the chipped pantograph head was discovered at Kings Cross shows the pantograph quite well. Unless I’m missing something, the pantograph head appears to be fine in this photo, so that would suggest that whatever caused the damage is on the Southbound main line between Leeds and Kings Cross, which whilst still a large area would narrow down the search significantly as it would rule out the wires on any track that 91119 didn’t cover during those couple of hours.
View attachment 103459


The 91s don't have pantograph cameras, unless they’ve been retrofitted very recently.
You are correct, 91s don't have pan cams, but Azumas do, of which multiple units also suffered damaged pan heads.

During the course of the day's multiple services had there Pans checked at every station stop by Hitachi travelling fitters, attempting to narrow down the location.
Some services had special stops put in, so they could also call at stations, purely to check Pan heads.

I'm unsure of the outcome, but there was no reports of any more damaged Pans since that date, so presuming (I know on railway we should never presume), that the problem area was identified by Lner, Hitachi and Network Rail.

The danagw could of been caused by something as simple as 1 loose dropper.
 

DanNCL

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You are correct, 91s don't have pan cams, but Azumas do, of which multiple units also suffered damaged pan heads.
I know the 80xs have them, I thought you were trying to say the 91s had them which was why I mentioned it, my apologies.

During the course of the day's multiple services had there Pans checked at every station stop by Hitachi travelling fitters, attempting to narrow down the location.
Some services had special stops put in, so they could also call at stations, purely to check Pan heads.

I'm unsure of the outcome, but there was no reports of any more damaged Pans since that date, so presuming (I know on railway we should never presume), that the problem area was identified by Lner, Hitachi and Network Rail.

The danagw could of been caused by something as simple as 1 loose dropper.
If any more chipped pantographs appear over the next week or so in the same area then given how long this has been going on for I don’t think it would be unreasonable to have the entirety of the wiring covered by the affected trains inspected by network rail. A large area it may be but that may be the only way to find what’s causing the issue.
 

800001

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I know the 80xs have them, I thought you were trying to say the 91s had them which was why I mentioned it, my apologies.


If any more chipped pantographs appear over the next week or so in the same area then given how long this has been going on for I don’t think it would be unreasonable to have the entirety of the wiring covered by the affected trains inspected by network rail. A large area it may be but that may be the only way to find what’s causing the issue.
Dan, the network rail mentor test train (overheads) worked Darlington to Kings Cross today, had the pan up om coach, so hopefully if there is still an issue then this may find it
 

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