Ticket barriers in Northern England

[scrapy]

The North seems to have relatively fewer automatic barriered stations than any other part of England, with many major stations 'open'. The following are stations below are ones I know to be barriered (or those with asterix proposed or under construction). Are there any others? or any others proposed to be barriered?

ATW managed

Chester

EMT managed

Lincoln
Sheffield*

Merseyrail managed

Hamilton Square
James St
Liverpool Central
Liverpool Lime St (low level)
Liverpool South Parkway*
Moorfields
Southport

NXEC managed

Darlington*
Durham*
Newcastle*
York*

Northern managed

Blackpool North
Bradford Interchange*
Leeds
Manchester Oxford Rd

TPE managed

none

Virgin managed

none

Some which I suggest could be easily barriered would be Warrington Central, Keighley, Bradford Forster Sq, Manchester Picc, Glossop, Salford Central, Wakefield Westgate, Wilmslow, Bolton. Any idea why this doesn't happen as the TOCs must be losing thousands in lost revenue, particularly at peak times when conductors cannot get down the train?

 

[First class]

Liverpool South Parkway's are now fully fitted. However, as with the rest of the Merseyrail's barrier system- the software is being updated.

Warrington Central uccasionally has TPE Revenue Protection Staff there in green jackets.

Manchester Pic is barriered by humans.

 

[a22book]

I think if a TOC puts up barriers they should make it possible to buy a ticket on the train. I travel from frodsham to chester which takes 15 minutes and has 1 stop. The Guard ( If they bother ) only has time to collect a couple of fares ( usually only 1 as they normally have to reboot there machine a few times ) Passengers then have to queue up at 1 window at chester. Its a joke.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I have yet to see the Leeds barriers in action, they always seem to be deactivated and have most if not all gates open

 

[ukrob]

Some which I suggest could be easily barriered would be Warrington Central, Keighley, Bradford Forster Sq, Manchester Picc, Glossop, Salford Central, Wakefield Westgate, Wilmslow, Bolton. Any idea why this doesn't happen as the TOCs must be losing thousands in lost revenue, particularly at peak times when conductors cannot get down the train?

How/where do you propose the barriers would be fitted at Manchester Piccadilly?

 

[poshbakerloo]

The need some at Deansgate and platform 13 and 14 at Piccadilly...
The Oxford Road gates are so pointless, they checked straight after my a guy!

 

[dylan_w]

Conway Park also has barriers on the Merseyrail network

 

[ukrob]

The need some at Deansgate and platform 13 and 14 at Piccadilly...
The Oxford Road gates are so pointless, they checked straight after my a guy!

They could do with them on platforms 13/14 but it will never happen without serious remodelling. Just not enough room for the quantities of people at peak times. Once you have installed a wide disabled barrier there is only room for two or three normal ones.

 

[bengley]

Leeds is not managed by Northern, it's Network Rail.

 

[350401]

My view is that it seems to be a cultural difference between the North and the South. Having lived in both areas, I'd say that in the South, its much more efficient and automated - ticket machines at most stations, most stations barriered, and penalty fares to discourage you travelling without first buying a ticket. Ensures minimal fare evasion, and less need for extensive manning but expensive to implement. Up North, well in my neck of the woods anyway, there seems to be a preference for minimal capital investment in automation - e.g tonnes of unmanned stations with no ticket machines, and even at staffed stations ticket vending machines are a rarity - e.g. Wilmslow and Knutsford - both staffed but no TVM. However, this is usually compensated for by extensive manning - e.g. buy tickets from guard on train, manually operated barriers at Piccadilly, no penalty fares etc.

On an aside point, on the Platford 13/14 bridge at Piccadilly at rush-hour why do Northern etc have 4 G4S staff standing around, doing little but checking tickets (rarely even that, flash something orange at them and they let you through), but only have 1 G4S person actually selling tickets? Surely having 1 on each side of the walkway selling tickets and 2 in the middle checking would be more practical?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

If York was to get ticket gates, it would definately interfere with the open access operator, Grand Central.
If NXEC (or the next operator) could dedicate two-three platforms for open access & walk-on trains, this would be a lot easier.
The system could also work by having barriers on top of the bridge, just before you go down the stairs (health hazard, i know). But where else could they put them in which it would not interfere with other operators?

 

[krus_aragon]

If York was to get ticket gates, it would definately interfere with the open access operator, Grand Central.
If NXEC (or the next operator) could dedicate two-three platforms for open access & walk-on trains, this would be a lot easier.
The system could also work by having barriers on top of the bridge, just before you go down the stairs (health hazard, i know). But where else could they put them in which it would not interfere with other operators?

The same could be said of Marylebone for Wrexham and Shropshire.

 

[Crossover]

I have seen Leeds ones non operative on many occasions. They have been operative the last couple of times I ave been....on and off....and last time numerous were stuck open. Even when they are working, they are so slow to open they are useless, unlike the ones you get on the likes of LUL.

Manchester Piccadilly I doubt would be a suitable location for barriers as there are 2 methods of getting off most of the platforms (walking towards the concourse or taking the stairs/escaltors part way along the platform)
It wouldn't be feasible to put them at the top/bottom of stairs or escaltors for H&S reasons and I'd think the platforms are too narrow for them anyway - I have seen rush hour when a packed train gets in and there isn't a single piece of platform visible as it is, so automated (and if anything like Leeds, slow and generally not working) barrierswill just slow down things even more and could still be bypassed.

 

[markem41]

Passengers using the Manchester city stations may also be using the paper Metrolink tickets to travel - there's always fun and games when someone inserts one in the barriers at Oxford Rd!

 

[WillPS]

The same could be said of Marylebone for Wrexham and Shropshire.

W&S aren't quite as proactive about on-board tickets though. Grand Central go as far to put "You can buy tickets on board this train" on departure boards - it's a big part of their whole no-fuss mantra.

 

[spoony]

I have a Tyne & Wear Network Travel Ticket which allows me access between Blaydon and Sunderland. How would this work at Newcastle if it was gated? After all, its just a bit of laminated card with my photo on!

 

[mathmo]

You'd have to go to the manual gate.

 

[spoony]

You'd have to go to the manual gate.

What if Ive just come from Central Station Metro though? I think it would be fairly unworkable to have barriers at Newcastle. It only seems to work when Northern have a human barrier on platforms 6/7 etc. But that only happens after 5.30pm it seems, the rest of the day is free reign.

 

[ffcphone]

my local station, bolton, does not have enough space to install barriers realistically. Two G4S staff check tickets at peak times

 

[me123]

I'm in support of barriers. But I can see stations, like Glasgow Central and Manchester Picc, where the barriers aren't really going to work; the humans are a lot better.

I think barrier-ing York is a good move, contrary to the typical enthusiast's view; revenue protection is critical. However, GC poses a problem. If they were to barrier some platforms individually, like 9, 10 and 11, you could maybe get away with it provided GC used only those platforms. Alternatively, GC could sell tickets at the barriers or changes their T&Cs to incorporate the barriers at York, or the NXEC staff at the barriers could sell GC tickets.