Ticket Examiner Weirdness - Any stories of your own?

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bAzTNM

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Right, this story is 110% true. It might not sound it, but it is.

I was on a train sometime in the last three days going to Newton (Lanark). I had my bike with me.

I get on and put the bike in the vestibule, always at the side the doors don't open at the platform.

I'm thinking everything is ok. Ticket guy comes through the carriage, shouting as he is coming in between the carriages - "If that guy has a ticket that's for past Cambuslang he's had it". Literally snaps the ticket off me. "Tough luck. You're getting off at Cambuslang". I don't really argue due to the fact it was probably better off getting off at Cambie anyway.

Here's the thing, the carriage was completely empty apart from two old couples, who were at the far back section of the carriage, so I don't know why he chipped me off. Not 100% sure, but he acted like he was drunk off his face, certainly wasn't stinking of drink.

ADDED: After he said that, he went to the other carriages (to check tickets?), but as soon as the next stop was Cambuslang, he was right in my face again saying "Time to get off, buddy". He was a big, obese guy too.

Have any of you regular train users got any experience of weird behaviour from the on train staff? Thanks!
 
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VTPreston_Tez

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I think you should contact FSR. Sounds like a pretty bad offense.
No drunken guards over here, but the TM taking his time to sort out drunken passengers has happened, with said TM not in his best state.
 

PinzaC55

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If the train was not full and you had a valid ticket you should have refused to leave. He has no power to physically eject you, and if he laid a finger on you he could be done for assault.He may have called the BTP but it wouldn't have looked good for him.
 

the sniper

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If the train was not full and you had a valid ticket you should have refused to leave. He has no power to physically eject you, and if he laid a finger on you he could be done for assault.He may have called the BTP but it wouldn't have looked good for him.

If the guard knows his byelaws and knows how to use them, you'd be wrong. Legally the guard or any authorised person on the railway can physically remove anyone they like legally, so long as they can pick a byelaw to justifiably fit the situation. Seeing as doing virtually anything on the railway is illegal under the byelaws, this isn't hard...

Though legally a lot can be done, physical action is generally frowned upon by the TOCs though. ;)
 

PinzaC55

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I was a Guard from 1983 till 2004 and I am sorry but you are wrong. Even laying a finger on a passenger (and vice versa) can be counted as an assault.
If you disagree, quote me the byelaw which says a guard can physically remove a passenger.
 

ralphchadkirk

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I was a Guard from 1983 till 2004 and I am sorry but you are wrong. Even laying a finger on a passenger (and vice versa) can be counted as an assault.

Incorrect. It depends in what circumstances, but Railway staff have the authority to remove and detain passengers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I quote Byelaw 24(2)(ii):
Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway by an authorised person using reasonable force.
Therefore if you break ANY bylaw (or the staff member holds the reasonable belief that you have) you can be asked to leave, and if you do not, the person can be physically removed from the Railway.
 
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table38

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Years ago I was on a Liverpool-bound TPX service intending to get off at Manchester Oxford Road, but at Piccadilly P14 the guard announced over the intercom that "the next stop for this service will be Birchwood".

Cue a lot of confused passengers getting off to check the monitors.

He didn't correct himself, and we did stop at Oxford Road!
 

Peter Mugridge

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Therefore if you break ANY bylaw (or the staff member holds the reasonable belief that you have) you can be asked to leave, and if you do not, the person can be physically removed from the Railway.

But what bylaw was the OP in breach of? Is it against a bylaw to place a bicycle in the vestibule?
 

PinzaC55

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OK I am wrong on the byelaw but I cannot remember a single instance of I or any of my colleagues applying that byelaw. It was not practical.
 

2Dogbox

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Where I used to be based there was a guard from the next depot along the line who myself and a few others referred to as "the psycho". He would insult passengers, shout at them, be quite rude, reject tickets for the most ridiculous reasons. How he stayed in the job I will never know. The man was a complete looney!
 

bignosemac

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Where I used to be based there was a guard from the next depot along the line who myself and a few others referred to as "the psycho". He would insult passengers, shout at them, be quite rude, reject tickets for the most ridiculous reasons. How he stayed in the job I will never know. The man was a complete looney!

He's probably someone high up in Revenue Protection at First Capital Connect now. <D
 

Wath Yard

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Was he a guard or just a ticket inspector? If he was a guard, and you thought he may have been drunk, you should have either contacted a member of ScotRail staff or the police. Being drunk in a safety critical job is a serious criminal offence, and obviously could result in danger for passengers.
 

the sniper

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But what bylaw was the OP in breach of? Is it against a bylaw to place a bicycle in the vestibule?

Well I don't know what the problem was with the guard in the OP, as he just sounded deeply unreasonable, but the byelaws are fairly open interpretation. For example:
2. Potentially dangerous items
(1) Except with written permission from an Operator or an authorised person, no person shall bring with him or allow to remain on the railway any item which, in the opinion of an authorised person, may threaten, annoy, soil or damage any person or any property.

It's in the opinion of the guard, and the only problem has to be that it 'may annoy'. As I said before, the byelaws a pretty much catch all offences. I did say earlier though that it relies upon the guard knowing their byelaws, and as proven by Pinza, most rail staff are unfamiliar with the byelaws so there's little chance of incompetent employees using them properly against passengers.
 

Matt Taylor

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I was a Guard from 1983 till 2004 and I am sorry but you are wrong. Even laying a finger on a passenger (and vice versa) can be counted as an assault.
If you disagree, quote me the byelaw which says a guard can physically remove a passenger.

That's not what the law says, 'harmful or offensive contact' is quite different from what you may have experienced on the job. Frankly if I had a 'no touch' policy with my late night passengers we would never get the empties back to the depot.
 

Urban Gateline

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That's not what the law says, 'harmful or offensive contact' is quite different from what you may have experienced on the job. Frankly if I had a 'no touch' policy with my late night passengers we would never get the empties back to the depot.

The "No-Touch" policy is pretty stupid, as it then prevents RPI's stopping someone from running away! If you're not allowed to touch someone then how can you prevent them from just running off at a station when challenging them for a ticket or personal details?!
 

BrownE

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The "No-Touch" policy is pretty stupid, as it then prevents RPI's stopping someone from running away! If you're not allowed to touch someone then how can you prevent them from just running off at a station when challenging them for a ticket or personal details?!

In theory South Eastern tackled that problem by providing Enforcement Officers to compliment RPIs.
 

WestCoast

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Where I used to be based there was a guard from the next depot along the line who myself and a few others referred to as "the psycho". He would insult passengers, shout at them, be quite rude, reject tickets for the most ridiculous reasons. How he stayed in the job I will never know. The man was a complete looney!

He sounds like a bus driver that appears regularly on one of my local bus routes. She is the rudest transport employee I have ever met. She literally barks orders at people and then mutters rude comments about passengers under her breath (especially to pensioners who need a bit more time to sit down), snarls at pictures on people's bus passes and reduced a poor girl to tears after she asked for a child's ticket (she looked about 12).

I know passengers/customers can be nasty work, but people like this aren't doing themselves any favours (or making their job easier!).
 

island

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In theory South Eastern tackled that problem by providing Enforcement Officers to compliment RPIs.

What is the difference between a Railway Enforcement Officer and a Revenue Protection Inspector? (Serious question.)
 

AntoniC

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I *think* Railway Enforcement Officers are the hired muscle for train companies and if you travel on Merseyrail are there to make sure you dont have your feet on the seats etc.
 

BrownE

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I *think* Railway Enforcement Officers are the hired muscle for train companies and if you travel on Merseyrail are there to make sure you dont have your feet on the seats etc.

To quote South Eastern:
We also have fully accredited Rail Enforcement Officers. They help to ensure the security of passengers and staff, playing a key role in reducing crime, anti-social behaviour and fare evasion. We will continually review their use, numbers and effectiveness to reduce crime across our network and to improve personal security for both day and evenings.

South Eastern policy is that no Guard, Train Manager, RPI should touch/forcibly remove anyone from trains; instead an EO should do it.
 

Mike395

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To quote South Eastern:


South Eastern policy is that no Guard, Train Manager, RPI should touch/forcibly remove anyone from trains; instead an EO should do it.

Almost correct - Railway Enforcement Officers are Southeastern's RPIs, as opposed to supplementing them :)
 

trentside

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I generally take the view that everyone has bad days, but if someone does seem to have been needlessly rude or unhelpful then I'll take issue. That's not just on the railways, but anywhere. I've encountered one or two people similar to the person 2Dogbox describes - maybe it even was him, I don't know.

The two stick out examples are a guard on a Arriva Trains Northern service who swore at me for giving him a £20 note. Frustrating I know, but as the ticket office was closed I didn't have a choice. The other was more recent, a Southern guard who just seemed to be being rude to people for the pleasure of it. I was travelled on a Daysave which she seemed to find very suspicious, coming back to check it twice. I told her what it was on the second occasion, at which point she shouted that she knew and demanded to know where I was going. After I told her she stormed off - I didn't really understand what her problem was.

On the whole, I never really seem to have problems travelling by train and find most of the staff to be friendly and helpful.
 

BrownE

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Almost correct - Railway Enforcement Officers are Southeastern's RPIs, as opposed to supplementing them :)
There are, however, a couple of RPIs who are not enforcement officers I believe, or perhaps Southeastern have a different name for them!?
 

Mike395

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There are, however, a couple of RPIs who are not enforcement officers I believe, or perhaps Southeastern have a different name for them!?

I know the ones you mean thinking about it, I've seen them conducting a revenue block at Waterloo East before now :)
 
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