ticket inspector swarm

[causton]

I was on an FCC train and a woman didn't have a ticket, she got spoken to by an RPI and she said "I don't have a ticket and I'm not buying one" and then "Oh, this is my stop" and just got off and walked out of the unstaffed station before he could even do anything. Are RPIs allowed to keep people on a train, or should he have got off (it was south of Alexandra Palace, so a train every 10 minutes to meet up with his colleagues who were on the train) and dealt with her on the platform?

 

[jopsuk]

different one- has anyone ever tried the NXEA/GA (they've continued it) "Text DODGER" system? They invite vigilantes to text details of suspected fare dodgers (service, carriage, brief description), presumably the idea being that an RPI team is alerted and diverted to that train ASAP. Sending a text being a fairly innocuous thing to do, it means the member of the public doesn't endanger themselves.

 

[scotsman]

I was on an FCC train and a woman didn't have a ticket, she got spoken to by an RPI and she said "I don't have a ticket and I'm not buying one" and then "Oh, this is my stop" and just got off and walked out of the unstaffed station before he could even do anything. Are RPIs allowed to keep people on a train, or should he have got off (it was south of Alexandra Palace, so a train every 10 minutes to meet up with his colleagues who were on the train) and dealt with her on the platform?

Yup, the railway byelaws make provision for any authorised person to detain someone.

 

[12CSVT]

One of the joys of travelling on Manchester Metrolink is when swarms of insectors get on at Queens Road staff halt, and watching the fare dodgers squirm.

 

[185]

......and the record for staff boarding or alighting at Queens Road staff halt is 48.

(Some were borrowed from TfGM) Picture was on facebook, it looked surreal.

Amazes me though, even in a bunch of 16 of us the other day, some plonk still attacked one of the staff. Picked on the wrong one though. Passenger came off worse

 

[bnm]

Oh so we do live in a police state, at least as far as the railways are concerned it seems.

Next time I'm in Tesco and the price on the packet is different to what the til comes up with I'll just dial 999 and ask for the considered legal opinion of the local pold then.

Rubbish. That *is* civil law. Fare evasion is a criminal matter.

And in wintoinian's example Tesco haven't even broken any civil consumer law. The price displayed on the packet (or shelf edge) is merely an 'invitation to treat' and not binding on either party. If the retailer wants to charge more (or less) they can. The purchaser can decide to except or refuse the price asked for at the checkout. That is then the binding offer, not the price ticket or shelf label.

Good customer service (not law) will usually see a retailer offer the goods for the price advertised though. Unless they suspect an attempt at fraud (e.g. price label switching) or the price advertised is wildly wrong.

 

[tbtc]

different one- has anyone ever tried the NXEA/GA (they've continued it) "Text DODGER" system? They invite vigilantes to text details of suspected fare dodgers (service, carriage, brief description), presumably the idea being that an RPI team is alerted and diverted to that train ASAP. Sending a text being a fairly innocuous thing to do, it means the member of the public doesn't endanger themselves.

I didn't know that, but what a good idea

 

[jon0844]

Funnily enough they never seem to pick the days when there are delays.

Oh and the BTP being present is overkill and should be paid for overtime by the TOC's the BTP are not beholden to the TOC's.

Delays could well stop RPIs making the train to work on, having been delayed themselves (how do you think they get around?!). They have shifts to do, so I doubt they turn up for work and think 'delays? let's go for a cup of tea' as they have to log the routes they do - and someone will soon ask why they didn't do anything for hours on end.

However, when there's major disruption then RPIs are often expected to down tools, so-to-speak, and start performing basic customer service duties and other things to help passengers (instead of seeking to prosecute them!!).

As for BTP, why shouldn't they attend for stings - along with local police when doing blocks at stations? Given the connection to ticketless travel and crime, I am surprised they don't do it more often (given how successful these operations are). The police can and will do additional checks on people and regularly find people that are wanted, carrying drugs and so on. BTP aren't just the slaves of the TOC - they get results too.

 

[daccer]

As a slight aside I was wondering what the general consensus on the forum was about the state of fare evasion in the UK. There does seem to be a much more draconian policy in place from many TOC's about this kind of behaviour with quiet stringent policies being adopted and many more stations now having ticket barriers.

Maybe any resident on train staff can comment if there has been a change in the travelling publics perception of ticketless travel and if it is something the TOC's have got a grip on. I am also a little interested in the data for the numbers of penalty fares,prosecutions etc are now being issued by TOC's and the kind of revenue being generated from fines etc.

 

[jon0844]

I was on an FCC train and a woman didn't have a ticket, she got spoken to by an RPI and she said "I don't have a ticket and I'm not buying one" and then "Oh, this is my stop" and just got off and walked out of the unstaffed station before he could even do anything. Are RPIs allowed to keep people on a train, or should he have got off (it was south of Alexandra Palace, so a train every 10 minutes to meet up with his colleagues who were on the train) and dealt with her on the platform?

They normally get off, but they don't seem to ever make any physical effort to detain someone - so if she was going to walk off then there's not much the RPI could do. Who knows, he might have been assaulted while exiting the station, or she could have made up being assaulted by him.

This is the exact reason that stings work, especially when accompanied by the police. They're always so successful that it's presumably only cost that stops them being done more often.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

They normally get off, but they don't seem to ever make any physical effort to detain someone - so if she was going to walk off then there's not much the RPI could do. Who knows, he might have been assaulted while exiting the station, or she could have made up being assaulted by him.

This is the exact reason that stings work, especially when accompanied by the police. They're always so successful that it's presumably only cost that stops them being done more often.

Rugby-tackling runners was not an uncommon occurance when I was on the "B" gang at Liverstreet Pool on the late seventies. I fell into conversation about this a couple of weeks ago on the barrier at St. Pancras FCC when a bloke did a runner. The RPI stated that they don't tackle them for fear of accusations of assault.

 

[tsr]

Rugby-tackling runners was not an uncommon occurance when I was on the "B" gang at Liverstreet Pool on the late seventies. I fell into conversation about this a couple of weeks ago on the barrier at St. Pancras FCC when a bloke did a runner. The RPI stated that they don't tackle them for fear of accusations of assault.

St Pancras TOC & NR staff always seem to end up calling the BTP about anything remotely uncomfortable. I know they don't want to end up in danger, but the number of times I have seen the BTP trudging around to some report or other, then finding that there is no problem, is quite astounding.

 

[michael769]

I though ToCs pay a financial contribution towards BTP?

 

[317666]

different one- has anyone ever tried the NXEA/GA (they've continued it) "Text DODGER" system? They invite vigilantes to text details of suspected fare dodgers (service, carriage, brief description), presumably the idea being that an RPI team is alerted and diverted to that train ASAP. Sending a text being a fairly innocuous thing to do, it means the member of the public doesn't endanger themselves.

A friend of mine tested this once by texting in a description of himself (he had a valid ticket obviously), and nothing happened

On the subject of GA, I was on a 317 up to Liverpool Street the other day, and an RPI carried out a ticket check somewhere near Bishops Stortford. Then once we got to Tottenham Hale, another RPI got on and checked them all again! It's good to see something being done about fare evasion on the West Anglia, as usually only the Stansted Expresses have regular ticket checks, and many of the smaller stations don't have barriers and are unmanned for most of the day.

 

[jopsuk]

GA have a made a big play about recruiting many more RPIs

 

[HowMuch?]

I am a little worried by the near-assertion by some people on here that the BTP is a private police force "paid for" by private train operating companies.

In the past I have never been concerned that BTP would be impartial if a dispute arose between me and an official of a TOC. Some statements on here seem to imply I should be concerned! I'm not, though, and I imagine these irresponsible statements would be taken as an affront by a police force with a proud tradition.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I am a little worried by the near-assertion by some people on here that the BTP is a private police force "paid for" by private train operating companies.

In the past I have never been concerned that BTP would be impartial if a dispute arose between me and an official of a TOC. Some statements on here seem to imply I should be, and I imagine these statements would be taken as an affront by a police force with a proud tradition.

You're quite correct. The BTP is, partly, funded by TOCs. However I, as you do, have no doubt as to their impartiality.

 

[Mojo]

Yup, the railway byelaws make provision for any authorised person to detain someone.

Although many companies have instructed their employees not to use this power.

Traffic police, when enforcing less-serious motoring offences often find those suspected of more serious crimes, and there are often similar findings when the BTP and revenue staff conduct joint exercises.

 

[ex-railwayman]

Maybe you should ALL read this and that will answer 99% of the questions thus asked so far.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Transport_Police

And as to the OP's statement - Surely this is overkill cos I have never seen this happen before!!

Why should it bother your goodself, to see Ticket Inspectors about on trains gives the fare paying public confidence.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Although many companies have instructed their employees not to use this power.

Companies however cannot override the law, so employees could use the power but it would be with the disapproval and lack of support of their company.

 

[district]

The BTP do enforce the railway bylaws. Whilst myself and some other forum members were at Victoria station, the BTP were called to deal with an alleged breach of the railway byelaws.

Traffic police, when enforcing less-serious motoring offences often find those suspected of more serious crimes, and there are often similar findings when the BTP and revenue staff conduct joint exercises.

At Higbury & Islington, I saw the BTP assisting revenue inspectors with a blockade, but they also had 'drugs dogs' with them.

 

[the sniper]

In the past I have never been concerned that BTP would be impartial if a dispute arose between me and an official of a TOC. Some statements on here seem to imply I should be concerned! I'm not, though, and I imagine these irresponsible statements would be taken as an affront by a police force with a proud tradition.

You're correct to believe the BTP are impartial. There are some rail staff who have been upset by that over the years... Sadly some of those same people can't see why the BTP is impartial and needs to be so.