Ticket machine covered in bodily fluids, penalty fare given

[Whydoi2211]

Hi there, was wondering if someone could help me see if it is worth to contest this penalty fair.

So last week I was using a transport for wales service to get into Cardiff, from a relatively small, 1 platform, 1 ticket machine station.

At the station, when I went to go purchase my ticket, I noticed that the ticket machine had been spat on, there was phlegm and blood, all over the screen, including the debit card pin pad section.
Being absolutely disgusted by this, and without any way to use then ticket machine without touching the bodily fluids, I boarded the train without buying a ticket.

Half way into my journey the ticket inspecter asks for my ticket, I explain my situation and provide evidence via photos I took of the ticket machine, including the time and date that was displayed on the ticket machines screen.

After explaining by situation I was told that this reason was not good enough, and that the ticket machine was still deemed as being "operational"
I didn't argue with the ticket inspecter, purely as I was tired, I was issued a penalty fair which I didn't contest, just took it and got off at my stop.


Would it be worth arguing that although this ticket machine was technically working, but using it would pose a health and safety risk to myself..

Thanks all

 

[gordonthemoron]

I would think so, yes

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I would appeal this. Remember the process is to pay and appeal, it will be refunded if successful, unlike parking tickets.

I'd be tempted to use the word "vandalised" and mention coronavirus risk in the appeal.

If the appeal fails, appeal 2 more times, some things aren't considered until the third appeal (stupidly).

 

[packermac]

As said I would go through the appeal process but in this current health climate I would forward the details (with the pictures) to both TfW to ask them if that is there official policy and to Public Health Wales (assuming your station is in Wales) as their advice of course talks about hand washing and sanitizer gell use, neither of which I am sure were available even if you had wished to proceed in using the TVM. I would also send a copy of the PHW letter to TfW and vice versa.
This would not be good enough at any time, but currently is beyond belief.

 

[35B]

Regardless of concerns over Covid-19, companies have obligations under Health and Safety legislation. I would personally be enquiring how the actions of the guard are compatible with their obligations under that legislation.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi there, was wondering if someone could help me see if it is worth to contest this penalty fair.

So last week I was using a transport for wales service to get into Cardiff, from a relatively small, 1 platform, 1 ticket machine station.

At the station, when I went to go purchase my ticket, I noticed that the ticket machine had been spat on, there was phlegm and blood, all over the screen, including the debit card pin pad section.
Being absolutely disgusted by this, and without any way to use then ticket machine without touching the bodily fluids, I boarded the train without buying a ticket.

Half way into my journey the ticket inspecter asks for my ticket, I explain my situation and provide evidence via photos I took of the ticket machine, including the time and date that was displayed on the ticket machines screen.

After explaining by situation I was told that this reason was not good enough, and that the ticket machine was still deemed as being "operational"
I didn't argue with the ticket inspecter, purely as I was tired, I was issued a penalty fair which I didn't contest, just took it and got off at my stop.


Would it be worth arguing that although this ticket machine was technically working, but using it would pose a health and safety risk to myself..

Thanks all

If you post your draft appeal letter / text here people will probably advise on your wording if you like.

Has this been cleaned up yet do you know, if you have used the station since? If not report that seperatley to their customer services (you could state that you spoke to a member of staff about it on the train on x date and assumed it would get reported but it seems to still not have been cleaned and made acceptable for use).

 

[QANN93]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

Will make a draft copy here.

 

[QANN93]

If you post your draft appeal letter / text here people will probably advise on your wording if you like.

Has this been cleaned up yet do you know, if you have used the station since? If not report that seperatley to their customer services (you could state that you spoke to a member of staff about it on the train on x date and assumed it would get reported but it seems to still not have been cleaned and made acceptable for use).

It wasnt cleaned up the day after. on the day I bought a ticket using the national rail app to avoid another situation.

However the day after that, it was cleaned up.

 

[WesternLancer]

It wasnt cleaned up the day after. on the day I bought a ticket using the national rail app to avoid another situation.

However the day after that, it was cleaned up.

Cheers, good luck - head back here if / when you need more advice, esp if you need to do further appeal or take it further - it's such a poor response from train staff to a disgusting scenario I'd be also considering involving your Welsh Assembly Member in the matter (train operator works to provide service to TfW who are responsible to the Welsh Govt as I understand it). In fact I'd even send them a copy of my 1st stage appeal right off, with a short cover note asking them for their help in bringing the matter to a prompt and successful conclusion given that it was clearly unacceptable to expect you to use the machine, and that you were able to show photographic evidence of the reason why.

 

[sheff1]

This would not be good enough at any time, but currently is beyond belief.

Indeed. I imagine many would have tweeted the photographic evidence, and the inspector's response, straight to their local newspaper and/or TV station.

 

[duffield]

Indeed. I imagine many would have tweeted the photographic evidence, and the inspector's response, straight to their local newspaper and/or TV station.

Yes, given the current situation, this sort of thing could easily get in the local news, which *might* get the attention of someone senior, a quick apology and withdrawal of penalty.
"So I'm being penalised for not using *this*!!!" (picture of disgusting keypad).

 

[talltim]

If it had happened to me I think I would make clear that I didn’t blame the TOC for the state of the machine, only for the PF, and probably taking two days to clean it after it was reported to a member of their staff.
Edit: thought of someone else
Also, say that you are willing to pay the normal fare, although in the circumstances it would be a nice gesture to waive it

 

[RPI]

I thought TfW only operated penalty fares between Shrewsbury and Birmingham?

 

[yorkie]

How much was the correct fare and how much were you charged?

I thought TfW only operated penalty fares between Shrewsbury and Birmingham?

Agreed https://tfwrail.wales/penalty-fares

 

[packermac]

How much was the correct fare and how much were you charged?

Agreed https://tfwrail.wales/penalty-fares

That in itself seems contradictory saying in one part
Arriving late or a large queue is not a valid excuse for not buying a ticket before you board.
But elsewhere
Some stations have a Permit To Travel machine in operation when the ticket office is particularly busy

Also states you have to go and look for the on train conductor as soon as possible. I thought on other threads it had been established the passenger has no requirement to do this.

 

[yorkie]

That in itself seems contradictory saying in one part
Arriving late or a large queue is not a valid excuse for not buying a ticket before you board.
But elsewhere
Some stations have a Permit To Travel machine in operation when the ticket office is particularly busy

Problem is the rules are all very woolly and open to interpretation. It really could do with being properly challenged in the courts.

Also states you have to go and look for the on train conductor as soon as possible. I thought on other threads it had been established the passenger has no requirement to do this.

TfW are making it up.

 

[Realfish]

That in itself seems contradictory saying in one part
Arriving late or a large queue is not a valid excuse for not buying a ticket before you board.

That's interesting. At risk of remaining slightly O/T, TFW claim that their penalty fare scheme which covers Birmingham International to Shrewsbury is in line with that of WMT who share the route. It is not. WMT's Passenger Charter says: ''Our aim is to make sure you do not have to queue more than five minutes at peak times or three minutes at any other time. We display details of these peak times at ticket offices. We will monitor our achievements of these queuing times as part of our continuous improvement programme. In specific situations where queueing times are not being achieved at a station, you can buy either a ticket en route or at your destination.''

That said, back to Cardiff. Was this indeed a penalty fare, as described, or some other sort of demand? In common with others who have posted their experiences of their difficulties with TFW in Wales, I fear that the OP's next communication might be from TIL who, deaf and blind to his mitigation, will attempt to extort a £ sum from him / her to make a potential court case go away. Well done the OP for taking photos of the offending TVM, back them up to keep them safe and take the advice, above, making a formal complaint. Your experience is unacceptable on so many levels.

 

[4REP]

Did you take a picture of the ticket machine in this condition? It would of been good for the evidence if it ever went further meaning prosecution or courts etc etc.

 

[4REP]

I would of also called the EHO out on this also

 

[causton]

Did you take a picture of the ticket machine in this condition?

photos I took of the ticket machine

According to the OP, yes

 

[4REP]

Oh good. The EHO should also be involved as they would have some help or input with the case.

 

[6Gman]

Oh good. The EHO should also be involved as they would have some help or input with the case.

Who do you mean by EHO ?

 

[Darandio]

Who do you mean by EHO ?

I thought they were some sort of food hygiene inspectorate/regulator, so i'm interested in what is being suggested as well.

 

[CrispyUK]

Environmental Health Officer?

 

[1955LR]

I understand its Environmental Health Officer (EHO)

 

[James H]

EHO = environmental health officer

 

[ValleyLines142]

I'm more concerned at the fact that the inspector in question still believed that the ticket machine was still in an acceptable condition to purchase tickets from, with all that matter all over it. That in itself is very poor.

 

[4REP]

I'm more concerned at the fact that the inspector in question still believed that the ticket machine was still in an acceptable condition to purchase tickets from, with all that matter all over it. That in itself is very poor.

Yes sorry its environmental health officer. They don't just deal with food hygiene. They deal with all sorts of public hygiene in public places where people have contact with company machines or machinary so even ticket machines should not be exempt.

 

[4REP]

They have the right to close or shut down anything that is a threat to public health.
My view is the state of the ticket machine is a threat as will contain possible disease or virus and no member of staff had cleaned it and the company still expected it to be used to purchase tickets. The customer in question had the right not to use the machine I certainly would not have.

 

[4REP]

I was in a situation at Southampton Central a few years back where platform 1 toilets were in a soiled condition and not cleaned and also in the process of installing toilet barriers where u pay to use them - so I complained to a member of staff that this were not acceptable and if not saughted out I will complain to EHO. They were shut within a few weeks and closed for a while until refurbishment. When EHO is mentioned it scares them.