Ticket Machines & Card Payments

[Bletchleyite]

Why do you think they’ve developed mobile ticketing apps?

Oh yeah, cos it speeds up the service and reduces costs!

From observation this is very dependent on the competence of the user, whereas London style contactless is universally faster.

 

[Ken H]

From observation this is very dependent on the competence of the user, whereas London style contactless is universally faster.

Yes. Trained users are vital.
But concessionary pass procedure varies by operator/council area. Some drivers need to know your destination and issue a €0.00 ticket, others dont.

 

[Goldfish62]

I've not experienced Ticketer Tap-on, Tap-off yet. Is it as painfully slow as for contactless payment?

 

[SSmith2009]

I've not experienced Ticketer Tap-on, Tap-off yet. Is it as painfully slow as for contactless payment?

Quite quick here in Leicester if the second machine works

 

[Ken H]

Quite quick here in Leicester if the second machine works

What happens when you tap in/out. Does it just log the tap in the ticketer memory or does it contact a computer in the office. Or does it contact the bank?

 

[175mph]

Yes. Trained users are vital.
But concessionary pass procedure varies by operator/council area. Some drivers need to know your destination and issue a €0.00 ticket, others dont.

Or in the case of Stagecoach East Midlands, the driver doesn't need to know your destination, but the machine automatically issues a zero fare ticket, which if not taken, some drivers will just drive off, and some will refuse to leave the stop until it's taken, even if the bus is already considerably late!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. Trained users are vital.
But concessionary pass procedure varies by operator/council area. Some drivers need to know your destination and issue a €0.00 ticket, others dont.

If a system like that requires trained users, it is faulty.

 

[Ken H]

If a system like that requires trained users, it is faulty.

^^^ this

 

[Goldfish62]

Quite quick here in Leicester if the second machine works

So no having to tell the driver you're tapping in and waiting while they fiddle with the machine?

 

[station_road]

So no having to tell the driver you're tapping in and waiting while they fiddle with the machine?

No, not if using touch on - touch off. Most First companies seem to offer this now, as well as others (Trentbarton, Brighton and Hove are ones I have used) - it's as quick as on a London bus

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

So no having to tell the driver you're tapping in and waiting while they fiddle with the machine?

No but in Glasgow, multiple time I have seen people try to scan M tickets and instead get a Tap on instead. Add to that a group of about 8 or 9 E300s that have the hopper right in front of the machine that block phones and cause issues.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Perhaps the issue with placing your card on the reader early is that the machine thinks you're trying to use tap on tap off, which presumably isn't available in your area.

I had an issue recently where I intended to use a QR ticket but the machine registered it as a tap on, using the mobile contactless payment system. Perhaps not the best design to have the QR scanner above the contactless card reader

 

[philthetube]

That is an utterly terrible piece of design. Ticketer's machines have done well to get card acceptance at least available, but there is huge scope for this to be improved.

A much more sensible flow would be (assuming tap in tap out isn't happening):

1. Passenger boards and places card on machine
2. Passenger states destination
3. Driver selects it and presses "pay by card"
4. Machine displays a cancel button for the driver to press any time up to issue in case e.g. the passenger changes their mind and produces cash
5. Machine waits until the card has been recognised and read, and issues the ticket once it has

Obviously 1 and 2/3 in this case could be either way round, i.e. it'd work for the destination to be set up and pay by card pressed and then the passenger taps the card as per most card machines.

One does wonder if this was tested in the real world with real passengers prior to deployment.

The hand held ticketer machine basically does that.

1. passenger boards and states ticket required when asked.
2. conductor inputs ticket required into machine.
3. customer holds card/device against card reader.
4. issue ticket turns gold when card read and conductor presses issue.
5. Ticket handed to passenger, job done.

Machine can instantly identify all different card types andpasses.

 

[Bletchleyite]

3. customer holds card/device against card reader.
4. issue ticket turns gold when card read and conductor presses issue.

That's still a bit cack-handed and doesn't quite behave the same way as general card terminals do, but it is better.

 

[Ken H]

The natural thing for someone to do is to put their pass, card or phone on the reader and at the same time, ask the driver for the ticket they want. The ticket machine should be written in such a way that it can cope with random customer behaviour.

 

[SSmith2009]

Perhaps the issue with placing your card on the reader early is that the machine thinks you're trying to use tap on tap off, which presumably isn't available in your area.

I had an issue recently where I intended to use a QR ticket but the machine registered it as a tap on, using the mobile contactless payment system. Perhaps not the best design to have the QR scanner above the contactless card reader

Drivers can nul/void the tap on if it accidentally catches it

 

[duncombec]

A small update on this thread from something I came across at the weekend, specifically in regard to customer behaviour.

Preston Bus vehicles (well, at least one of them!) carry a notice affixed to the Covid/Assault screen which says (punctuation as in original!):

Customer Notice
If you are using our Tap&Go facility. Please present your card on the machine.
If you are not using Tap&Go DO NOT present your payment card until requested, by the driver.

This seems to me to be quite a useful way of realising there is a "problem" (albeit, as stated upthread, stemming largely because there has been no major new ticket machine since the widespread acceptance of contactless) and trying to educate customers in the best way to go about using their card. Much better than the lottery of "yes, no, not yet" that seems to prevail in many areas. Of course, in areas that do not have a tap/go type facility, the notice could be worded even simpler.