Ticket Mutilation

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mutant Lemming

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
3,194
Location
London
How bad does a ticket have to be defaced, altered, mutilated, written on, choclolate/grease/ice cream coated before it becomes unacceptable ?

Say for instance you cut a pattern around the edge of a ticket but all the detail is perectly legible (I am askiing because I know someone who done just that and I said they would probably have to pay again - though they weren't asked for their ticket again).
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

lyesbkz

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2010
Messages
592
Location
Chesterfield
I doubt there's any written policy on this anywhere. It probably comes down to "don't take the p***", and what the Guard / ticket examiner considers to be the case. And whether it would fit in the gates. I'd imagine that if you present a stupidly shaped ticket to the gate attendant they wouldn't be particularly amused.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
22,480
Location
Redcar
Well the Railway Byelaws have this to say on the matter:

Railway Byelaws said:
20. Altering tickets and use of altered tickets

(1) No person shall alter any ticket in any way with the intent that an Operator shall be defrauded or prejudiced.

(2) No person shall knowingly use any ticket which has been altered in any way in breach of Byelaw 20(1).
That's pretty clearly aimed at people who are trying to change the origin/destination (for example) on a ticket rather than just cutting it around the edges.

However, the NRCoC say this on the matter of altering tickets:

23. If a ticket is damaged or altered

If a ticket has been damaged or has been tampered with or altered in any way, it is not valid for travel. However, if you return it to the Train Company or travel agent which sold it to you, they will arrange for a replacement ticket to be issued unless it has reason to suspect that the ticket has, or will be, used for fraudulent or improper purposes. You may have to pay a reasonable administrative charge (not exceeding £10) for the replacement.
So I would suggest that you could be considered in violation of the NRCoC as personally I'd say what's been described clearly counts as damage. But, it does seem that you'd be able to get a replacement (for £10) rather than having to buy an entirely new ticket.

Having said that, I would suspect that as long as all the details on the ticket are still legible that most rail staff would probably accept the damaged ticket but officially I'd say it's dubious.
 

GadgetMan

Member
Joined
9 Jan 2012
Messages
892
The damaged tickets I will generally refuse to accept is when the ticket has obviously had part of it scrubbed to disguise a previous stamp, or to hide the date, destination, origin or route. And this may surprise some but when a corner of the ticket is conveniently missing which is where a lot of guards stamp the ticket.

The only original one I've had is where a guard on a previous trip had written the date on the ticket because they'd left their stamper behind in their locker. The passenger had attempted to disguise that date by turning it into a mobile number:lol:. (it was me that previously marked the ticket :))
All the above get TIR'd for prosecution.

If I come across a ticket that has been damaged because the passenger was bored (like the case in OP) and couldn't think of anything better to do, then it's a new ticket at full price to teach them a lesson.

The only time I will accept a slightly damaged ticket is when it is obviously accidental, like water damage because it's been raining heavily outside etc.
 

GadgetMan

Member
Joined
9 Jan 2012
Messages
892
To give them credit that is quite a novel way of trying to avoid the fare :lol:
Here's another one (slightly off topic).

On late night trains at origin station I like to open one train door and check tickets before people board. That way nobody gets on without a valid ticket as they have to buy it off me at the door or go away.

A young man (male A)approached the door with a single ticket from north wales to a midlands station connecting onto my train. I stamped it in the top corner and let him on. Another 20 or 30 people boarded followed by another young man (male B) who had a single ticket from the same north wales station to the same station in the midlands as male A. His ticket had a rubbed off stamp on the top right corner but I could not make the digits out.

You have to appreciate I can't afford to waste too much time on one person otherwise the flow of passengers waiting to board very quickly increases into a queue which would result in a delay.

Now there are no opening windows on my train, nobody has passed a ticket over my shoulder to another passenger and no other doors are released. So how can it be the same ticket I checked earlier? Still confused, I let him on. While I was checking other passengers on, my mind was still ticking away trying to work out wtf had happened :lol:.

My driver then decided to put me out my misery as he was standing on the platform getting great joy watching the fare evaders being refused travel, I would never have been able to imagine this one;

Male A went into another carriage, forced a small gap between the rubber strips of a double door (class 170) and passed the ticket through to his mate. I was very impressed :D. So impressed infact that I threw them both off as neither had a valid ticket now it had been transferred.:p
 

Mutant Lemming

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
3,194
Location
London
Also on a slightly different tangent - could you refuse (on H & S grounds) to handle a ticket that had been chewed by the holder (especially if they obviously had a cold or the flu) and if clearly legible what would be the outcome ?
 

sheff1

Established Member
Joined
24 Dec 2009
Messages
4,835
Location
Sheffield
On late night trains at origin station I like to open one train door and check tickets before people board. That way nobody gets on without a valid ticket as they have to buy it off me at the door or go away.
This is such a simple idea, which I have seen myself on a couple of occasions, that I wonder why more people don't do it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top