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Ticket offered on East Coast website but not on Virgin that is clearly an error

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Halsebee

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I've found a flexible off peak ticket offered for a peak hour journey I want to do, available on East Coast website, but not on the website of the company who's train it is. I'm certain it should not be valid, but it is clearly on offer and available. What is my position if I buy it and use it? Will it be deemed valid, as I've bought it from a train company in good faith? Would a seat reservation, and a print out of the website sales page be proof? What do I say to a sceptical guard?
Thanks for help.
 
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yorkie

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What is the ticket?

Every Off Peak ticket has a validity code. This validity code indicates what the "peak" restrictions are with that ticket. It is irrelevant if a train is described as a "peak" train in other literature though; what matters is whether or not it is permitted according to the terms of your ticket. For example, the 1830 out of King's Cross may be considered to be a "peak" train, but many Off Peak tickets are valid on it, although many are not.

There is no such thing as a peak train on which no off peak ticket is valid by definition of the train being considered peal. It may be the case that there are some trains where no off peak ticket exists for that portion of the journey that allows travel on it, for example there are probably no Off Peak tickets that have validity on arrivals into King's Cross at around 0900 in the morning peak. But to make that statement you'd need to check all the validity codes. TOCs can't just randomly decide to make a train barred to all Off Peak tickets - it does not work like that.

But just because someone describes a time as "peak time" that does not automatically mean that all Off Peak tickets are valid.

It is also irrelevant which companies website you buy the ticket from; the terms of the tickets are the same if they are issued from any website or from a machine or in person.

For tickets that are not restricted to (or barred from) a particular TOC, it is irrelevant which companies trains you use, as the terms are not necessarily set by the company that you choose to use. The terms are set by the company that sets the fare, which may - or may not - be the same as the company you choose to travel with (where such a choice exists).
 

John @ home

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Why is it "clearly an error"? We have discussed at length here recently instances where different booking engines interpret the rules differently. And there are many "Off-Peak Returns" which are valid on all trains, such as Rugby - Preston, which is set by Virgin. That one is valid By any train except those timed to depart Mondays-Fridays before 0415.
What is my position if I buy it and use it? Will it be deemed valid, as I've bought it from a train company in good faith? Would a seat reservation, and a print out of the website sales page be proof? What do I say to a sceptical guard?
We have had no reports of on-train staff rejecting genuine tickets when accompanied by a valid seat reservation for the train in which the passenger is travelling.

John
 

Halsebee

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Its a Super Off Peak Day Travelcard on FGW into Paddington valid on early morning fast trains from Taunton for £65
 

yorkie

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We have had no reports of on-train staff rejecting genuine tickets when accompanied by a valid seat reservation for the train in which the passenger is travelling.
Yes, that's the crucial thing: get a reservation.

We've had reports of passengers being denied travel when the passenger is valid, by badly trained staff, particularly on EMT who appear to have a particular dislike of their customers as a company. However I believe even the disgraceful EMT would have to honour a seat reservation. If they didn't, they know it could so easily end up in the papers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Its a Super Off Peak Day Travelcard on FGW into Paddington valid on early morning fast trains from Taunton for £65
Restriction : XC
JOURNEYS TO/FROM/VIA LONDON/
READING

Available as listed below
MONDAYS TO FRIDAYS (by any
train on Saturdays, Sundays
and Bank Holiday Mondays).

TOWARDS LONDON

Available on the following
trains and all later services:
From:
Swansea ________________0845
(also valid between 0200&0430)
Neath 0855
(also valid between 0200&0430)
Port Talbot Parkway ____0905
(also valid between 0200&0445)
Bridgend _______________0915
(also valid between 0200&0500)
Cardiff Central ________0940
(also valid between 0200&0530)
Newport_________________1000
(also valid between 0200&0545)
Bristol Parkway_________1015
(also valid between 0200&0530)
Avoncliff ______________0940
Bradford on Avon________0935
Freshford __________0940
Trowbridge______________0930
Nailsea & Backwell______0930
Yatton__________________0925
Weston-Super-Mare ______0920
Bristol Temple Meads____0945
(also valid between 0200&0510)
Bath Spa _______________1000
Chippenham______________1010
Swindon 1030
(also valid between 0200&0545)
Cheltenham Spa 0930*
Gloucester 0930*
Stonehouse______________0955
Stroud _________________1000
Kemble _________________1015
* When travelling via Bristol
Parkway on tickets routed
'Any Permitted', the
restriction time shown above
for Bristol Parkway also
applies

FROM LONDON
See Note A below

Note A
Valid on services departing
London Paddington or London
Waterloo between 1010 and 1459
, or after 1859 (departing
Reading, heading west (i.e.
services passing through
Didcot Parkway, Oxford
or Newbury ONLY) between 1030
and 1525, or after 1859)

SUPER-OFF-PEAK TICKETS FROM
STATIONS NOT LISTED ARE VALID
FOR CONNECTIONS INTO THE ABOVE
TRAINS.
This is valid on very early morning trains on the South Wales corridor route. If you were to travel via Bristol you'd not be able to leave BRI until the 0945. However if you are getting a train that avoids Bristol, I cannot see anything there that restricts you, unless I am missing something (there is a load of waffle after that but I do not think it applies). My interpretation is that it is unrestricted and this also appears to be the interpretation of the NXEC website. I suggest booking it and ensure you get a reservation, get your reserved train, sit in your reserved seat. Bring a complaints form with you just in case.

If challenged, explain it is valid and produce the above documentation from the Avantix CD-ROM. If the guard refuses to accept this, then fill in the form, asking politely for the guard's name and fill in the headcode[1] and other details. Also state you will be writing to Passenger Focus, your MP, and your local radio, TV & newspaper companies, pointing out that if a customer holds a reservation booked at the time of purchasing the ticket that it would be extremely newsworthy if you were denied the right to travel on that ticket/ reservation. You could also ask for documentation to prove that your service is invalid on that ticket, and you could then argue that, even if the ticket is invalid (which I believe it isn't), the fact that you booked a reservation at the time of booking and stuck to your booked train means it must be honoured as a contract has been agreed.

[1]
0617 - 1A73
0719 - 1A74
0817 - 1A76
 
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