Ticket office staff attitudes and tickets from other destinations

[rg177]

Following an "interesting" incident with a member of ticket office staff at Stroud today, I was wondering whether it is common or actually a rule for ticket office staff to demand to see all of your tickets from the station that the ticket office is situated at, to the point at which the ticket you wish to purchase begins?

In essence, he demanded to see all of my tickets from Stroud to Banbury when I asked for a Banbury to Leamington Spa single (and not politely either) and wasn't satisfied until I'd physically handed over my ticket wallet through the hatch.

His reasoning was "you missed the last train so you might be on an advance ticket and trying it on". This related to the fact that the 1514 London was delayed, and while the screens said due 1531, I returned at 1526 to find it leaving already. No big deal though, as the next service was at 1552. To be honest though, I found it a very odd comment to make and rather ironic as I was buying the ticket because I'd lost all of my tickets home and that was why I was buying this one!

He then noticed my railcard, made a sarcastic comment about not mentioning it (because he'd cut me off and demanded to see all of my other tickets) to which I clarified that I indeed wanted a railcard discount. He then tried to sell an undiscounted one and it took multiple attempts to correct him.

So this is a two pronged question, was he right in asking me for all of my tickets, and was his attitude acceptable in general?

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[higthomas]

No and no. You can ask for whatever you want from a ticket office, it's how you use it that matters.

 

[rg177]

No and no. You can ask for whatever you want from a ticket office, it's how you use it that matters.

I had a feeling I was in the right for being skeptical of what he was doing.

He did sell a ticket for the wrong date to an elderly couple and then blamed them for his mistake (ie they asked for one date and he sold it for another) while I was sat by the ticket window so clearly he just had an attitude problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Increasing numbers of ticket office staff (and TOCs failing to train them properly) do seem to be doing their absolute best to ensure that replacing them with TVMs will provide an improvement.

I want ticket offices to remain, at least at larger stations, with skilled, knowledgeable, professional and polite staff. But if we can't have that, I'd rather a TVM.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Once I tried to buy a Hellifield to Steeton single ticket from Lancaster ticket office and was asked to show what ticket I was using to travel to Hellifield. On showing the ticket that I had, the clerk refused to believe that it was valid for travel from Lancaster to Hellifield (it most certainly was!) and therefore refused to sell me the Hellifield to Steeton single. I complained to Virgin but just got a generic apology letter in reply. I should have just whipped out my smartphone, booked the ticket online and collected it from the TVM opposite the ticket window. Some people are just asking for their jobs to be automated away.

 

[AlterEgo]

I can't remember the last time I used a ticket office. A TVM won't give me any sass or ask to see what other tickets I have.

 

[Starmill]

Anyone who took that tone with me would receive none of my business in a ticket office. Not when a website or a ticket machine (or indeed both), the guard or a ticket office at an interchange location would all have served me with more speed and better manners.

 

[rg177]

A detail email has been sent to GWR with everything outlined in my original post.

I'm convinced that he was just a bitter man in need of retraining rather than applying any false policies. With the delayed London he was telling passengers that it had gone already, for example. He seemed way too preoccupied on his phone.

 

[Ianno87]

I've had that experience at Milton Keynes. I was travelling to Rugby and I already held a season ticket to/from Northampton. The lady wouldn't sell me a Northampton-Rugby day return unless I showed her my season ticket first.

 

[higthomas]

Well as of recently Guildford station TVMs sell tickets from other destinations, so my use of ticket offices is likely to decline somewhat. The only times I've used them recently are for Boundary zone tickets which one can't get online.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once I tried to buy a Hellifield to Steeton single ticket from Lancaster ticket office and was asked to show what ticket I was using to travel to Hellifield. On showing the ticket that I had, the clerk refused to believe that it was valid for travel from Lancaster to Hellifield (it most certainly was!) and therefore refused to sell me the Hellifield to Steeton single. I complained to Virgin but just got a generic apology letter in reply. I should have just whipped out my smartphone, booked the ticket online and collected it from the TVM opposite the ticket window. Some people are just asking for their jobs to be automated away.

If time was available, a fun option may have been to do that then show it to the member of staff at the window, then quickly walk off and board the train before they get chance to do anything about it.

After recent experience with GTR at City Thameslink involving the ticket office staff *and* the barrier staff not having a clue as to Off Peak validity for a direct train from that station, I've pretty much given up and am moving towards the idea that LU got it right and ticket offices just aren't needed any more unless they can *seriously* buck their ideas up and offer a genuinely superior service to justify their existence.

 

[cf111]

Very poor. I use Inverness station's ticket office regularly and the staff there are always friendly, pleasant and knowledgeable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very poor. I use Inverness station's ticket office regularly and the staff there are always friendly, pleasant and knowledgeable.

There does *seem* to be a different culture on ScotRail than on the utterly institutionally incompetent GTR - though of course they aren't immune to it, there is a thread going at the moment about similar cluelessness about off-peak tickets resulting in the incorrect sale of an Anytime Return.

 

[Bungle965]

Booking offices in my area are often poor sometimes verging on the extremely poor take this dialouge that I had with one of the booking clerks,
`Hi I would like to buy an advance ticket for next week please`
`Whats one of them`
Or if you want poor attitudes then how about serving customers while talking on the phone or not wearing the correct uniform.
Attitudes are often poor in addition to their knowledge.
Once you find one that is competent and freindly it`s like you have struck gold, I try to remember their name so that I can pass it on to the company (Usually through twitter)
Sam

 

[RJ]

I will ask, mainly to ensure people are buying the right ticket. If a vaguely passable explanation is given, demonstating the passenger knows their ticket then I will always give the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I will refuse - like if someone wants a wrong direction SDR as an illegitimate way to save on a round trip.

It's fair to say that there are a lot of unhelpful people in the grade, but it's all about getting bums on seats or dumping people who they can't easily sack. It's very difficult to find people who will turn up, on time let alone grasp the technical aspects and provide a good level of customer service. It's not just ticket offices you find useless people - many a cashier in the bookies prove a spanner in the works to people like me who take free money from their business through arbitrage - and don't get me started on Paypoint operators

 

[PaxVobiscum]

There does *seem* to be a different culture on ScotRail than on the utterly institutionally incompetent GTR - though of course they aren't immune to it, there is a thread going at the moment about similar cluelessness about off-peak tickets resulting in the incorrect sale of an Anytime Return.

As the one who started the thread referred to above, I feel I must make it clear that in my experience the Scotrail ticket staff are generally very knowledgeable and helpful. My local station is renowned for telling people about cheaper options for travel, usually from memory, but they will take the time to check for a cheaper ticket on the system if they think the one asked for sounds a bit expensive.

 

[bb21]

If time was available, a fun option may have been to do that then show it to the member of staff at the window, then quickly walk off and board the train before they get chance to do anything about it.

Chances are that the clerk wouldn't even care.

So you achieve nothing.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I am a very great believer in and regular user of the humble station booking office but agree there are some horrors out there, my local station these days being one of them. I am saddened to hear that GWR who can get so many things right couldnt manage it for the OP in Swindon today.

Agree with posters saying Scotrail are generally good at this game, with the acception of 2 utterly moronic examples, odly enough at totally seperat ends of the country!

Happy to discuss this rather chriptic post by PM etc for anyone wanting advice

 

[roversfan2001]

However not all ticket offices are like that by any stretch. Today at Leyland the clerk was helpful, and although he couldn't sell the ticket I wanted (which shouldn't be sold anywhere near the North West anyway so isn't an issue) was helpful throughout and we exchanged laughs over football events. Ticket offices are in my opinion still necessary and serve a purpose.

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[Merseysider]

A small (but still alarmingly frequent) number of Virgin and Northern staff being arsey is the reason I now buy everything online and collect from TVMs, with the exception of PlusBus, RTVs and Merseyrail (normally a brilliant bunch).

Most booking office staff are of course great, but I got sick and tired of having a full blown debate with them every month when they didn't like the sound of what I was asking for.

Excuses/BS that I've heard from a booking office that I'm yet to hear from Webtis:

• [after selling me an Advance ticket for the wrong date] "Oh ffs"
• "You can't start on a ticket partway through. No, it's not allowed."
• "You want an excess? Can I just see your ticket and railcard there?" [snatches ticket wallet from my hand and empties it all over the desk]
• "I'm not going to print your tickets off. Go get the card" [from someone else 30 miles away...?]
• "Come back later mate, having a fag"
• [on excess fares] "I don't know how to do those, you'll have to go to Oxford Road"
• "You can't buy that here. That's fraud" [after I asked for a (cheaper) ticket from a station further away from my destination (!)

 

[185143]

There's a ticket seller at Warrington Bank Quay that seems to be hellbent on causing me problems!
'Return from Birchwood to Crewe please'
'You can't have that from here.'
'Why not?'
'You should have bought it at Birchwood.' (Fair point if I'd been to Birchwood already-I'd got a lift to WBQ) I explained this and got the reply:
'You can't have it then' I said that starting short was perfectly permitted to which I was told it definately wasn't and that Break of journey is never permitted.

The Train Manager was more than happy to sell me the appropriate tickets-including the West Midlands Day Ranger I wanted! (As I couldn't have that from the ticket office as it isn't valid at Warrington)

Also been told by the same person I couldn't have a ticket (I forget the destination) as 'that's not on this line-you can't get that here'. The TVM said differently!

I've been asked at other ticket offices 'how are you getting there' when I've asked for a ticket from somewhere else before, but saying I have a season/day ranger/going on the bus/tram normally suffices.

 

[tsr]

After recent experience with GTR at City Thameslink involving the ticket office staff *and* the barrier staff not having a clue as to Off Peak validity for a direct train from that station, I've pretty much given up and am moving towards the idea that LU got it right and ticket offices just aren't needed any more unless they can *seriously* buck their ideas up and offer a genuinely superior service to justify their existence.

The irony is that the LU ticket offices were the only people who would back me up when a number of TfL staff took exception to the "break of transfer journey" rule. They certainly seemed to know what they were doing, and had their uses. The gateline staff wouldn't even accept a printout from National Rail, the meaning of which I had confirmed by a number of NR ticket offices.

There does *seem* to be a different culture on ScotRail than on the utterly institutionally incompetent GTR - though of course they aren't immune to it, there is a thread going at the moment about similar cluelessness about off-peak tickets resulting in the incorrect sale of an Anytime Return.

Amusingly, I once had a case where a Scotrail ticket office briefly refused to sell me an Anytime Return instead of an Off-Peak Return, on the basis that the first part of my outbound journey was within the restriction's off-peak hours. When I pointed out that the longer period of time of outbound validity was why I was interested in the Anytime return, and that I would break my journey several times en-route, they looked at me very strangely before eventually selling it. I think my massive hiking rucksack gave the suitable impression that I wasn't wishing to defraud them by using it as a cheap (and illegal) option for a commuter's season ticket!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Whether I ask to see other tickets, or ask if they are needed, depends very much on the situation. If it's painfully obvious that someone is legally starting short then I won't bother. If the ticket is being used as part of a longer journey, or for a journey quite a distance away, generally speaking I will ask if other tickets are required and/or if I can see them.

If I ask to see them it may be because an excess fare might be cheaper, or perhaps another option is available, I can't judge the passenger's knowledge of fares and experience tells me the vast majority don't have the knowledge to already know what's cheapest. There are some who know, don't get me wrong, but they are most definitely in the minority.

Remember that part of my job is too be impartial and offer the cheapest through fare for the journey being made, and believe it or not there are people who are surprised that I can sell some tickets that they were going to buy on a certain website "because it's cheaper".

 

[tsr]

If I ask to see them it may be because an excess fare might be cheaper

This. Exactly this. I omitted this because, well, I was tired when I posted before, but it's a very valid point.

Often passengers ask for a ticket from X to Y "because I already hold one up to X". About half of these times people look confused when staff ask them what ticket they already hold, and look further bewildered when they start typing in the little numbers on the ticket into their machine. And then they look delighted when it's only 60p more, rather than the £4.00 they paid yesterday, or whatever.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As the one who started the thread referred to above, I feel I must make it clear that in my experience the Scotrail ticket staff are generally very knowledgeable and helpful. My local station is renowned for telling people about cheaper options for travel, usually from memory, but they will take the time to check for a cheaper ticket on the system if they think the one asked for sounds a bit expensive.

LM at Bletchley are generally helpful too, and I believe there's a LM member of staff from Watford Jn on here who also is helpful. But there are too many bad eggs, and I'm still getting over the shock of finding one at a prime Central London station.

This. Exactly this. I omitted this because, well, I was tired when I posted before, but it's a very valid point.

Often passengers ask for a ticket from X to Y "because I already hold one up to X". About half of these times people look confused when staff ask them what ticket they already hold, and look further bewildered when they start typing in the little numbers on the ticket into their machine. And then they look delighted when it's only 60p more, rather than the £4.00 they paid yesterday, or whatever.

The irony of course being that because of a general unwillingness to do zero-fare excesses (I've never, ever understood why the railway makes this so much of a problem), if the excess would be £0.00 it's typically charged as more!

There's a ticket seller at Warrington Bank Quay that seems to be hellbent on causing me problems!
'Return from Birchwood to Crewe please'
'You can't have that from here.'
'Why not?'
'You should have bought it at Birchwood.' (Fair point if I'd been to Birchwood already-I'd got a lift to WBQ) I explained this and got the reply:
'You can't have it then' I said that starting short was perfectly permitted to which I was told it definately wasn't and that Break of journey is never permitted.

It is on all the tickets on that route, I just looked.

Next time buy online and collect from the TVM. Then he can't argue.

The irony is that the LU ticket offices were the only people who would back me up when a number of TfL staff took exception to the "break of transfer journey" rule. They certainly seemed to know what they were doing, and had their uses. The gateline staff wouldn't even accept a printout from National Rail, the meaning of which I had confirmed by a number of NR ticket offices.

A Cally Sleeper 1st class ticket used to be valid for a Zone 1 transfer but didn't have any relevant markings on the ticket. The Tube staff at Euston repeatedly refuse this to the extent that the Euston NR ticket office got sick of it - even the ticket being endorsed with a note and the booking office stamp was not accepted, with a comment of "they're National Rail, they can't tell us what to do". I think the only way to solve it in the end was to withdraw the validity, as the argument wasn't worth the two quid it saved.

 

[brompton rail]

Doncaster (VTEC) Travel Centre are quite happy to issue me with, say, tickets from Sheffield to Derby, and / or Derby to Birmingham. No questions about "how will you get to Sheffield (etc).

It helps if you know what you want, are able to quote the correct name, and know the fare (so you know you and the clerk are on the same page when they look up fares on their screen). No problem either buying 'Off Peak' tickets which are not valid at the time of purchase but will be when you get to, say, Sheffield.

And by buying from a person and not a TVM or Mobile/Electronic ticket, will be kept in a job, pay taxes and contribute to the country.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And by buying from a person and not a TVM or Mobile/Electronic ticket, will be kept in a job, pay taxes and contribute to the country.

A number of my interactions with ticket offices recently have identified people who do not deserve a job.

 

[crehld]

LM at Bletchley are generally helpful too, and I believe there's a LM member of staff from Watford Jn on here who also is helpful. But there are too many bad eggs, and I'm still getting over the shock of finding one at a prime Central London station.

Indeed. There are a few tickets offices I will use because I can be assured of friendly, polite, courteous, knowledgeable and professional service. Where such a service exists I am keen to support it. At others I simply cannot be assured of this, and as a result I tend to buy online where risk of rude, dismissive, apathetic and unknowledgeable staff is eliminated.

My general experience is that ticket offices at smaller, quieter stations tend to provide the better service - staff are more cheery, and even if not more knowledgeable, are much more willing to take on a more challenging / unusual request. My experience at larger / terminus stations has almost universally been negative. Perhaps it's because if you're a clerk in a busy ticket office then it's more stressful and demanding. I understand that, but if you can't hack it and can't maintain a professional level of service and remain polite and courteous in such an environment you really shouldn't be there.

For the purpose of balance, however, I will say that there have been occasions where I have been quizzed about my plans to be offered cheaper alternatives. I have actively been offered fares to stations beyond my destination if they were cheaper (though staff are always careful to ask if this is what I wanted to do). Walk into Crewe ticket office and ask for an off peak return to Birmingham (or many other destinations in the region), and staff will usually ask if you're returning the same and if so will offer the a West Midlands Day Ranger as a cheaper alternative.

 

[0B00]

Yesterday at Shrewsbury. Arrived in Travel Centre at 1553. 2 people in front of me. My turn arrived at 1559. Clerk "if this is anything other than a simple ticket you'll have to go to the booking office as I close in 1 minute". It was, so that's what I had to do !

 

[bb21]

A number of my interactions with ticket offices recently have identified people who do not deserve a job.

Those are very strong things to say, Neil.