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Ticket office staff attitudes and tickets from other destinations

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MidnightFlyer

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I once had exactly the same questions and demands to see my tickets at, of all places, Strood! I can't remember the exact details but I think I wanted a return from Slade Green to Crayford, and was in possession of a ticket from somewhere down in Kent to London Terminals, valid via Strood and Slade Green. Once I showed him my current ticket he did sell me what I requested, with much muttering and all the enthusiasm of someone awaiting execution by firing squad.

I had cause to use Strood booking office again about a year ago, and the clerk that time was lovely and had no issue selling me a single from Stone Crossing to London for the next morning. He even laughed it off when I reappeared a few minutes later, mistakenly suggesting he had sold me the wrong ticket. Everybody's different.
 
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My experience is, regardless of TOC, nine times out of ten ticket office staff are great. I include GTR in this since they come in for so much stick from us on here: I caused a payment issue at their counter at St Pancras this week that would have tried the patience of a saint, but the guy was superb.

One time in ten they're poor for a wide variety of reasons. Just like dealing with people in all parts of life.
 

WelshBluebird

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Those are very strong things to say, Neil.

Don't see anything controversial in what he said.
If a member of staff is in a customer facing role but cannot deal with actually dealing with customers in a professional and correct manner, then they shouldn't be in a customer facing job. Why is that at all "a strong thing" to say?
 

bb21

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Don't see anything controversial in what he said.
If a member of staff is in a customer facing role but cannot deal with actually dealing with customers in a professional and correct manner, then they shouldn't be in a customer facing job. Why is that at all "a strong thing" to say?

"... have identified people who do not deserve a job." is a pretty bold thing to say do you not agree? He wasn't just talking about customer-facing jobs.
 

MikeWh

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I once had exactly the same questions and demands to see my tickets at, of all places, Strood! I can't remember the exact details but I think I wanted a return from Slade Green to Crayford, and was in possession of a ticket from somewhere down in Kent to London Terminals, valid via Strood and Slade Green. Once I showed him my current ticket he did sell me what I requested, with much muttering and all the enthusiasm of someone awaiting execution by firing squad.
For future reference, travel via Crayford or Slade Green to the other from Dartford or beyond is valid under the 3 mile rule. The same is true for Barnehurst via Crayford or Slade Green but not vice-versa.
I had cause to use Strood booking office again about a year ago, and the clerk that time was lovely and had no issue selling me a single from Stone Crossing to London for the next morning. He even laughed it off when I reappeared a few minutes later, mistakenly suggesting he had sold me the wrong ticket. Everybody's different.

I wonder if that was a friend I used to work with before he joined the railway.
 

MidnightFlyer

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For future reference, travel via Crayford or Slade Green to the other from Dartford or beyond is valid under the 3 mile rule. The same is true for Barnehurst via Crayford or Slade Green but not vice-versa.


I wonder if that was a friend I used to work with before he joined the railway.

Cheers, such a thought never occurred to me but would have saved me a lot of bother! I can't remember much about the clerk other but he was a very nice bloke, certainly compared to his colleague!
 

trentside

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"... have identified people who do not deserve a job." is a pretty bold thing to say do you not agree? He wasn't just talking about customer-facing jobs.

Yes, it's a very strong statement. To some of the armchair experts I'm sure it comes across as a reasonable statement, that someone should be denied a livelihood because they couldn't find an obscure ticket in a complicated retailing system, or have been given incorrect instructions by local management.

In truth, there are people out there who aren't suited to their roles, we all know this, but there are also a lot of people working in ticket offices who aren't trained properly to fulfil all elements of their role. Add on top of that the hideously complicated fares system and it's a recipe for disaster. This is the fault of the TOCs, not the individual clerks.
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
And there is a further rank of people working in booking offices who dont want to be there for a multitude of reasons and training or not will do a crap job just because they dont want to do it/be there!

I must go off slightly and agree entirely that the office at Strood is excillent, friendly and on my last visit it reopened as there was a wedged 6 car 395 stuck in the platforms due to signaling issues ahead and when we learned it would be a while people started piling off the train and wanting delay repays/refunds/plusbus/directions/taxis ordered/bus times and more and the booking office clark and the 2 platform staff were just fantastic and worked like troopers!
Great job for a Monday Evening.
 

NorthernSpirit

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There's one Northern guard who is a right jobsworth, keeps having a go at me everytime I'm buying a ticket. On one occation the guard refused to sell me a ticket despite boarding at an unstaffed station.

There's a Northern ticket office clerk at Halifax (whether he's retired or not I don't know) but on a few occations he tried to sell me undiscounted tickets even when I showed a valid railcard and on another occation yelled at me for picking up a timetable - warned him not to provoke me as I would ensure his job would terminate here if he kept it up.
Yes, I did complain.
 

embers25

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Bought 2 future dated Ride Cornwall tickets with Devon and Cornwall railcard discount at Virgin Euston on Wednesday. Unlike Woking, who always get the wrong discount code and try to issue the wrong ticket, this gentlemen got the ticket right first time and just got help with the discount. Took 2 minutes and he just joked that he hadn't sold that ticket type or a discount for that railcard in 16 years of working there! We both laughed and off I went, no need to show how I was reaching Cornwall. All this helpful and humourous attitude at 0715, so a busy time, and at that time Woking always try to refuse to sell. Particularly the awful Platform 1 ticket office.
 

island

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For future reference, travel via Crayford or Slade Green to the other from Dartford or beyond is valid under the 3 mile rule. The same is true for Barnehurst via Crayford or Slade Green but not vice-versa.

That depends on the precise journey. There is a negative easement prohibiting travel via London and via two or more of Crayford, Slade Green, and Barnehurst.
 

Bletchleyite

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Those are very strong things to say, Neil.

That they are, but as I said a ticket office is somewhere which only has any value if they are highly knowledgeable and professional. I have had several recent interactions with ticket offices that were anything but. A ticket office has no value if the service it offers does not improve on a TVM.

It could, to be fair, be poor training by the TOC. But there's also an attitude problem in quite a number of ticket offices staff. The issues I have experienced (and a number of others on here) involve things like ticket offices and barrier staff refusing to look up restrictions when the customer suggested they might possibly be wrong. That's unacceptable. That's an attitude problem. That's someone who frankly does not deserve the job.

I want to see ticket offices stay, but I want to see proper, expert, professional service standards from them. If we can't see that they have no value.
 

Bletchleyite

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"... have identified people who do not deserve a job." is a pretty bold thing to say do you not agree? He wasn't just talking about customer-facing jobs.

Apologies, I was referring to a job selling tickets in a ticket office to clarify (or guard, or barrier staff, or any other similar job), as those jobs were the subject of the thread. I'm sure there is a job they would be able to do (perhaps one not requiring customer interaction such as a driver, a cleaner or a maintenance engineer), just not that.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes, it's a very strong statement. To some of the armchair experts I'm sure it comes across as a reasonable statement, that someone should be denied a livelihood because they couldn't find an obscure ticket in a complicated retailing system, or have been given incorrect instructions by local management.

Quite possibly so, but the big problem I have is with staff who, when questioned politely as to whether they have made an error, just put the barriers up and insist they are right.

The ticketing system is horrendously complicated, so if a passenger questions something like a restriction, the right thing to do is to look up the restriction and confirm what is the case, not just go from memory.

Mind you, none of that excuses the clerk at City Thameslink not knowing (and refusing to look up) the restrictions for a simple adult single ticket from that station to the line's main northern terminus. That's basic, basic knowledge, and there is nothing complicated about it at all. (It's slightly odd as the restrictions are directional based on the ticket, but not complicated).
 

6Gman

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Walk into Crewe ticket office and ask for an off peak return to Birmingham (or many other destinations in the region), and staff will usually ask if you're returning the same and if so will offer the a West Midlands Day Ranger as a cheaper alternative.

I use Crewe a lot and they're very good. Very open about offering options such as the one mentioned above.
 

bb21

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That they are, but as I said a ticket office is somewhere which only has any value if they are highly knowledgeable and professional. I have had several recent interactions with ticket offices that were anything but. A ticket office has no value if the service it offers does not improve on a TVM.

It could, to be fair, be poor training by the TOC. But there's also an attitude problem in quite a number of ticket offices staff. The issues I have experienced (and a number of others on here) involve things like ticket offices and barrier staff refusing to look up restrictions when the customer suggested they might possibly be wrong. That's unacceptable. That's an attitude problem. That's someone who frankly does not deserve the job.

I want to see ticket offices stay, but I want to see proper, expert, professional service standards from them. If we can't see that they have no value.

Quite. These are very fair points and I would have said the same things.

Btw at no point was I doubting that you had good reasons. I just thought it could do with some clarification.
 

AndrewE

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Apologies, I was referring to a job selling tickets in a ticket office to clarify (or guard, or barrier staff, or any other similar job), as those jobs were the subject of the thread. I'm sure there is a job they would be able to do (perhaps one not requiring customer interaction such as a driver, a cleaner or a maintenance engineer), just not that.

Once upon a time there was a 6-month probationary period (after which you paid superannuation at double the rate, on top of 35% tax!) and entry-grade staff weren't allowed to work on the booking office counter, so there was a degree of weeding before you got to face the public. Promotion to CO2 was the critical step.

If I'm buying a ticket I always have to queue at a window as I want a priv, but I agree most staff at Crewe are good, it's just that there are too few of them (often only 2,) so all sorts of random enquiries about a dozen different options hold the queue up when lots of people just want a simple cash transaction.
 

Bletchleyite

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If I'm buying a ticket I always have to queue at a window as I want a priv, but I agree most staff at Crewe are good, it's just that there are too few of them (often only 2,) so all sorts of random enquiries about a dozen different options hold the queue up when lots of people just want a simple cash transaction.

Yet enquiry about options is really the future of ticket offices - "simple cash transactions" (Priv aside) are available at the TVM. Indeed, that could do with being extended to Priv, perhaps some form of validation could be used, like a "membership card" of some kind.
 

Bromley boy

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"... have identified people who do not deserve a job." is a pretty bold thing to say do you not agree? He wasn't just talking about customer-facing jobs.

It is a bold statement, but not an unreasonable one.

As a general point, I think those of us who oppose destaffing also need to acknowledge that on the railway, as in all industries, "perception is reality" and staff of all grades need to be seen to be doing their jobs well and adding value.

I was pondering exactly this point yesterday, travelling on one of my TOC's guarded services. I was on the train for over an hour and neither saw the guard not heard him make a single announcement. He might as well not have been there. This kind of thing plays into the hands of those in favour of DOO and wholesale cuts to staff numbers.
 
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bb21

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It is a bold statement, but not an unreasonable one.

No one has the right to say that a stranger does not deserve a job, no matter what one thinks of them. One only sees a very small part of a stranger's life.

I know Neil did not intend for it to come across in its literal meaning, but without qualification, it remains an unreasonable thing to say.
 

Bromley boy

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No one has the right to say that a stranger does not deserve a job, no matter what one thinks of them. One only sees a very small part of a stranger's life.

I certainly have a lot of sympathy with that perspective.

However, the travelling public at large will inevitably form a range of opinions about rail staff, good or bad, based on their interactions with them, however brief.

On that basis, I'd argue that it's vital for those with "skin in the game" to minimise unhelpful interactions, like that that which Neil experienced, that can give rise to these negative views in the first place. Particularly so at the moment, given that industrial disputes over railway staffing are such a hot topic.
 
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Polarbear

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Of course, there are some very good staff out there too. One ticket office I've found to be pretty good is ATW's facility at Chester.

A while back, I was travelling to Derby & bought an off peak day return for the journey. Whilst the ticket was purchased before 08:30, (the time from which it became valid), no-one made a fuss or refused to sell me the ticket.

The member of staff did comment that as it was an off-peak ticket, it may not be valid that early in the day, to which I replied that my understanding was that it was valid from 08:30. To their credit, they looked up the restriction, found I was correct & thanked me for bring it to their attention.
 

bb21

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I certainly have a lot of sympathy with that perspective.

However, the travelling public at large will inevitably form a range of opinions about rail staff, good or bad, based on their interactions with them, however brief.

On that basis, I'd argue that it's vital for those with "skin in the game" to minimise unhelpful interactions, like that that which Neil experienced, that can give rise to these negative views in the first place. Particularly so at the moment, given that industrial disputes over railway staffing are such a hot topic.

Yes, I absolutely agree.
 

tspaul26

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The worst experience I have ever been treated to at a booking office was at Altrincham (before TfGM took over responsibility for day-to-day operations from Northern). I must beg forgiveness for the somewhat lengthy nature of this post.

By way of context, Altrincham has a Sunday service to Manchester city centre of one train every two hours. There is also a Metrolink LRV every 12 minutes.

The relevant Sunday return fares are £4.60 on Metrolink and £4.50 by rail. Only the latter fare is eligible for railcard discounts, with a reduced fare of £2.95. Obviously, this is a tempting saving.

There is no rail TVM.

Until a few years ago, the rail service terminated at Altrincham on Sundays and passengers were expected to change onto a Metrolink service to complete the journey to Manchester. Whilst this timetabling arrangement no longer obtains, it means that there is a ticketing quirk whereby train tickets from Altrincham to Manchester are valid on Metrolink services (on Sundays only).

This means that a railcard holder can purchase a return fare valid on both Metrolink and heavy rail for £2.95 on a Sunday, which is both cheaper and more flexible than the normal ticketing arrangements.

So off I go to the booking office one Sunday morning to buy a railcard discounted return ticket to Manchester. The first train of the morning had already departed a few minutes beforehand with a two hour wait for the next service.

When the clerk pointed this out to me, I commented that it wouldn't be a problem because I would simply catch the next Metrolink service roughly five minutes later.*

"Train tickets aren't valid on the tram", he says.

"They are on Sundays", I reply.

He then said that he would refuse to sell the ticket altogether, at which point I asked for the duty supervisor to be brought in. The supervisor initially backed up the clerk and said that the train ticket was not valid on Metrolink.

At this point I referred our impromptu committee to a copy of the rail timetable, which contained a helpful notice stating that the train ticket was valid on Metrolink on Sundays. I also brought up the same notice on the Metrolink website, which was repeated on a Metrolink poster on the platform.

With all this conflicting written information, the clerk's continued refusal to sell the ticket was clearly the right course of action.

Eventually, the supervisor cottoned onto the fact that I wasn't leaving without either the tickets or a letter from the booking office identifying the relevant members of staff and explaining why they had refused the sale. The supervisor and clerk grudgingly issued the requested train tickets, but then stamped them 'Restrictions Advised'. The clerk also manually endorsed both sides of the tickets using a ballpoint pen to read 'NOT VALID ON TRAM'.

I then boarded the next Metrolink service to Manchester...after fifteen minutes arguing at the booking office. Utterly useless!

I had originally decided not to bother complaining about the farce, but as it happens I had another run-in with the same clerk the following Saturday evening since he had decided to close up over an hour early.

A suitably contrite response was swiftly forthcoming from Northern. Whilst I don't have the letter to hand, it was nominally from one of the higher ups rather than the usual customer relations team respondent.

I never saw that particular booking clerk again either, although quite what happened to him I have no idea! The other clerks (sans supervisor) are still there and I have nothing but praise for the standard of service that they continue to provide.

* My return journey was made later that day on the train.
 

6Gman

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If I'm buying a ticket I always have to queue at a window as I want a priv, but I agree most staff at Crewe are good, it's just that there are too few of them (often only 2,) so all sorts of random enquiries about a dozen different options hold the queue up when lots of people just want a simple cash transaction.

The closure of the Travel Centre at Crewe was a terrible move. The number of times I've got stuck behind people wanting to fill out all the details for a Family Railcard at one desk while the other desk is dealing with someone who wants to go to London in July but can be flexible on what time, and day, and wants to explore numerous options and then brightly says "and what about an LM-only ticket?"

:D

Doesn't help that I've usually only got ten minutes before my train leaves.

:oops:
 

rosschap

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I have had mixed experiences with ticket offices up and down the country. One of the best experiences was at Maidstone East in 2015. I wanted to purchase a Maidstone Stns - Calais Day Tripper (a ticket which the clerk had never sold before). It was only him in the ticket office and he tried his best to find it on the system. Even though I went to the ticket office in the afternoon when it was quieter, there was a queue growing and passengers behind me were getting frustrated at waiting for so long. I explained to them that the ticket I wanted was not available at the TVM, nor online. The clerk called up Southeastern control to make sure he was selling the ticket correctly as it comes with two "control tickets" to be exchanged at the port of Dover/Calais. It took about 15 minutes for him to sort it out but eventually he managed it, and I was grateful for his perseverance. The P&O staff at the Port of Dover were rather bewildered when I presented them with my tickets! It must be a rare sight indeed.

On the other end of the spectrum, a few years ago staff at Victoria have flat out refused to sell me tickets for journeys the next day, as well as tickets starting from another station, telling me that they can only be purchased on the day. What a load of rubbish!
 

WelshBluebird

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Yes, it's a very strong statement. To some of the armchair experts I'm sure it comes across as a reasonable statement, that someone should be denied a livelihood because they couldn't find an obscure ticket in a complicated retailing system, or have been given incorrect instructions by local management.

In truth, there are people out there who aren't suited to their roles, we all know this, but there are also a lot of people working in ticket offices who aren't trained properly to fulfil all elements of their role. Add on top of that the hideously complicated fares system and it's a recipe for disaster. This is the fault of the TOCs, not the individual clerks.

But we weren't talking about issues caused by poor training or by complicated fares systems. We were talking about the total and utter lack of professionalism, helpfulness and customer friendly service displayed by a minority of customer facing staff.

Railway staff like to talk a lot about an "attitude test" when it comes to potential fare evaders. Well the same is true about an "attitude test" when it comes to staff. I have zero problem at all if a member of staff is struggling because of poor training or the fares system (indeed I am likely to sympathise with them, be impressed by them if they are honest about the situation and in extreme cases have a go at the ToC about helping out their own staff). However I do have a problem with staff in customer facing positions who simply should not be working with the general public - those who are rude and unhelpful (e.g. staff who refuse to look up restriction codes for example).

"... have identified people who do not deserve a job." is a pretty bold thing to say do you not agree? He wasn't just talking about customer-facing jobs.

It is a bold thing to say. But if someone is in a job that they clearly are not suited for (e.g. someone in a customer facing role who refuses to help passengers) then I'd say it is an accurate statement.

No one has the right to say that a stranger does not deserve a job, no matter what one thinks of them. One only sees a very small part of a stranger's life.

I disagree. Sometimes it is clear that someone is not suited to a particular role. If someone in a customer facing role at a railway station is not professional, helpful and willing to take genuine requests for things like looking up restrictions to clear any uncertainty, then I really don't see how you can defend them being in that job. Certainly when I worked in retail if I acted like some of the situations we have read on here, then I would have been fired on the spot. I don't see what is wrong with saying some people are just not a right fit for a particular job and should be elsewhere.

I'll reiterate that these comments are only about a small number of staff. And the issue exists everywhere, not just in the railways.
 

bb21

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It is a bold thing to say. But if someone is in a job that they clearly are not suited for (e.g. someone in a customer facing role who refuses to help passengers) then I'd say it is an accurate statement.



I disagree. Sometimes it is clear that someone is not suited to a particular role. If someone in a customer facing role at a railway station is not professional, helpful and willing to take genuine requests for things like looking up restrictions to clear any uncertainty, then I really don't see how you can defend them being in that job. Certainly when I worked in retail if I acted like some of the situations we have read on here, then I would have been fired on the spot. I don't see what is wrong with saying some people are just not a right fit for a particular job and should be elsewhere.

I'll reiterate that these comments are only about a small number of staff. And the issue exists everywhere, not just in the railways.

They are all fair points (as were those in your previous post) however as Neil's original comments were not restricted to customer-facing jobs your arguments are pretty much null and void.
 

Bletchleyite

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Of course, there are some very good staff out there too. One ticket office I've found to be pretty good is ATW's facility at Chester.

A while back, I was travelling to Derby & bought an off peak day return for the journey. Whilst the ticket was purchased before 08:30, (the time from which it became valid), no-one made a fuss or refused to sell me the ticket.

The member of staff did comment that as it was an off-peak ticket, it may not be valid that early in the day, to which I replied that my understanding was that it was valid from 08:30. To their credit, they looked up the restriction, found I was correct & thanked me for bring it to their attention.

And that is what I should have experienced at City Thameslink.
 

WelshBluebird

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They are all fair points (as were those in your previous post) however as Neil's original comments were not restricted to customer-facing jobs your arguments are pretty much null and void.

His point was specifically about ticket offices though, and staff he interacted with whilst using them - I don't think there are many ticket office staff who a passenger would interact with who aren't customer facing!
 
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