Ticket office staff attitudes and tickets from other destinations

[Bletchleyite]

His point was specifically about ticket offices though, and staff he interacted with whilst using them - I don't think there are many ticket office staff who a passenger would interact with who aren't customer facing!

I think the point he was making was that while I felt that was clear from the context, others didn't feel the same way, so a clarification (which I gave later) was necessary. It was more a case of "didn't deserve their job", not as I wrote "didn't deserve a job". I'm sure the railway would have a suitable job for them, just not ticket office staff, RPI or Guard.

 

[bb21]

I think we have taken pedantry to a new level.

Group hug?

 

[185143]

Funny someone should mention Chester, as that reminded me of the few times I've used it.

A couple of years ago, I asked for a North Wales Rover-the 2 zone version (for the Borderlands line shacks). The clerk initially said that a two zone one didn't exist, however I found the page on the ATW website that says it does, and the child version was £6. He looked again, and was still struggling. He asked if I was in a rush, as he was going to go and speak to his manager, which he did. After not too much longer, the clerk and his manager returned, the manager apologetic for the issues-took a minute sat at the computer and found the requested ticket a couple of minutes later. Everyone in the ticket office was then shown how to sell it.

Earlier this year, Chester ticket office refused a Scottish tenner off me...

Apart from the second issue, I've always found Chester ticket office to be very good. The first issue was rectified as well as possible really-after confirming I wasn't in too much of a rush. I got the impression I'd have been given authority to travel if I had been short of time too.

 

[hounddog]

I think the point he was making was that while I felt that was clear from the context, others didn't feel the same way, so a clarification (which I gave later) was necessary. It was more a case of "didn't deserve their job", not as I wrote "didn't deserve a job". I'm sure the railway would have a suitable job for them, just not ticket office staff, RPI or Guard.

But would they want to be sweeping platforms?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But would they want to be sweeping platforms?

The vast majority of people do not enjoy their job, they do it because it pays them money and they can do it reasonably well. So it doesn't matter what they *want* to do, if they are not competent in a ticket office and cannot be trained to be competent they should not be working in one.

 

[swt class 450]

Following an "interesting" incident with a member of ticket office staff at Stroud today, I was wondering whether it is common or actually a rule for ticket office staff to demand to see all of your tickets from the station that the ticket office is situated at, to the point at which the ticket you wish to purchase begins?

In essence, he demanded to see all of my tickets from Stroud to Banbury when I asked for a Banbury to Leamington Spa single (and not politely either) and wasn't satisfied until I'd physically handed over my ticket wallet through the hatch.

His reasoning was "you missed the last train so you might be on an advance ticket and trying it on". This related to the fact that the 1514 London was delayed, and while the screens said due 1531, I returned at 1526 to find it leaving already. No big deal though, as the next service was at 1552. To be honest though, I found it a very odd comment to make and rather ironic as I was buying the ticket because I'd lost all of my tickets home and that was why I was buying this one!

He then noticed my railcard, made a sarcastic comment about not mentioning it (because he'd cut me off and demanded to see all of my other tickets) to which I clarified that I indeed wanted a railcard discount. He then tried to sell an undiscounted one and it took multiple attempts to correct him.

So this is a two pronged question, was he right in asking me for all of my tickets, and was his attitude acceptable in general?

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Southeastern (especially London Bridge) are notorious for refusing to sell tickets that do not originate from the station you are buying them at.

I have now had six separate occasions when the ticket office staff at London Bridge have refused to sell me a ticket from Betchworth despite the fact that i have always explained to them that i have come from Betchworth which has absolutely no ticketing facilities. The ticket office at Tonbridge has refused to sell me a Redhill to Betchworth ticket and refused to sell me a Redhill to Box Hill & Westhumble ticket. The ticket office at Hastings has refused to sell me a Lewes to Wivelsfield ticket. The ticket office at Sevenoaks has refused to sell me a Boundary Zone 6 to Cambridge ticket. The ticket office at Orpington has refused to sell me a Boundary Zone 6 to Oxford ticket. The ticket office at Dover Priory has refused to sell me a London Waterloo to Dorking ticket.

They always come up with the excuse that they can only sell tickets originating from the station that they are at. But this is a completely untrue load of rubbish as the ticket offices at Battle / Hildenborough / Knockholt / Wye have all sold me tickets from other stations without any problems.

Some companies like Chiltern Railways and South West Trains are brilliant and have always sold me whatever ticket i have asked for without any problems. But others like Southeastern give you problems all the time.

 

[185143]

Took me three attempts at three different Merseyrail stations the other day to sell me an advance for the following morning...

Missing the train really rubbed it in believe me!

 

[Puffing Devil]

Most of us now have smartphones - time to start filming less than satisfactory interactions and pass them on to the TOCs as a start?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most of us now have smartphones - time to start filming less than satisfactory interactions and pass them on to the TOCs as a start?

The problem with doing this is that it will automatically get said member of staff's back up.

 

[AlterEgo]

Most of us now have smartphones - time to start filming less than satisfactory interactions and pass them on to the TOCs as a start?

Just buy the ticket on the smartphone - most railway ticket transactions can be done via apps now.

 

[LordCreed]

The Thameslink office at St Pancras are actually surprisingly good for a GTR ticket office.

I've had good and bad experiences from a number of ticket offices over the years, and it does vary on who is working. When I lived in Exeter, St Davids ticket office was always really helpful and able to deal with the odd requests.

Bristol Parkway will always try their best, even if they haven't a clue what the ticket actually is.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Just buy the ticket on the smartphone - most railway ticket transactions can be done via apps now.

Great if there is a TVM you can easily pick up from, not so great if there isn't!

 

[AlterEgo]

Great if there is a TVM you can easily pick up from, not so great if there isn't!

True, though mobile ticketing is increasingly common.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Just buy the ticket on the smartphone - most railway ticket transactions can be done via apps now.

Great if there is a TVM you can easily pick up from, not so great if there isn't!

True, though mobile ticketing is increasingly common.

I am sure most people would go down the online or mobile route if it were an option and they could avoid the ticket offices. Most of the issues here have been getting tickets issued that are not available from TVMs at the station concerned, or no TVM at the station.

The problem with doing this is that it will automatically get said member of staff's back up.

Agree. I would want to use it for confirmation if we've reached a stalemate. Turn on the camera and say "Just to confirm that you're refusing to sell me a ticket from X to Y because <insert spurious reason here>". Then there's no denying the conversation later on.

 

[bb21]

Agree. I would want to use it for confirmation if we've reached a stalemate. Turn on the camera and say "Just to confirm that you're refusing to sell me a ticket from X to Y because <insert spurious reason here>". Then there's no denying the conversation later on.

..., shutters down, time out.

If you want to film something, start at the beginning.

 

[Puffing Devil]

..., shutters down, time out.

If you want to film something, start at the beginning.

Shutters down speaks volumes if you need to make a complaint.

Filming from the start, unless done covertly, raises its own issues and can put staff on edge, and can only be done if a problem is anticipated.

 

[bb21]

Shutters down speaks volumes if you need to make a complaint.

Depends on how it's done.

 

[Camden]

Agree. I would want to use it for confirmation if we've reached a stalemate. Turn on the camera and say "Just to confirm that you're refusing to sell me a ticket from X to Y because <insert spurious reason here>". Then there's no denying the conversation later on.

Or alternatively you could just do your best to get through the situation without unnecessarily inflaming matters further, and make a complaint subsequently?

If you were really affronted, you could politely explain why you're unhappy. And if you're then at a stalemate ask to speak to a supervisor. If none available then you'd have to comply and follow the first step, however politely making it known that you're not happy and will be following the matter up should ensure that the staff member tones it down somewhat.

I can't stand this modern obsession for switching the camera on at the slightest provocation, often subsequently ending up social media. Not only is it highly selective in what it shows both in time and perspective, but also it's an invasion of personal privacy and a potentially far reaching violation of someone you don't know. And for what?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Or alternatively you could just do your best to get through the situation without unnecessarily inflaming matters further, and make a complaint subsequently?

If you were really affronted, you could politely explain why you're unhappy. And if you're then at a stalemate ask to speak to a supervisor. If none available then you'd have to comply and follow the first step, however politely making it known that you're not happy and will be following the matter up should ensure that the staff member tones it down somewhat.

I can't stand this modern obsession for switching the camera on at the slightest provocation, often subsequently ending up social media. Not only is it highly selective in what it shows both in time and perspective, but also it's an invasion of personal privacy and a potentially far reaching violation of someone you don't know. And for what?

Where's your evidence to suggest that I wouldn't approach the matter in the way you've outlined? You do not know me or my manner. I can't stand this modern obsession for leaping to conclusions on internet forums.

I would use a camera to capture the final outcome - when no solution could be reached and a stalemate had been reached to record a final statement, no more. The would be no posting or sharing on social media. It would be to support my complaint only.

 

[RJ]

We all know there are a lot of ticket office staff there who can't cope with what should really be very basic aspects of the job. It's something the industry doesn't acknowledge and beyond the resources of the railways to sort out. It's better if you learn how to handle the situation when it comes up, rather than winding up the poor souls who are in a role they can't do properly. As an alternative, perhaps work on your own skills of persuasion to influence them to do what's required of them?

If you don't have the opportunity to buy your chosen ticket prior to travel, follow the advice given in the National Rail Condition Of Travel - buy one at the first practicable opportunity. If that means getting the cheapest ticket to get you through the barriers, so be it. I can honestly say I have never had an issue doing this - if your train has a guard on it, they may well be familiar with the problem of unhelpful ticket office staff and happily sell you what you require. If you come across revenue inspectors, it will probably be the same.

As for cameras, they have the effect of winding up the person being recorded and I'd recommend against it unless the member of staff is behaving in a way that's seriously unjust.

 

[LowLevel]

Most of us now have smartphones - time to start filming less than satisfactory interactions and pass them on to the TOCs as a start?

Won't work - following a few instances of people attempting to film railway staff to intimidate them most if not all TOCs have a policy of allowing staff to immediately cease interaction and withdraw if filming or photography is attempted.

I'm not interested in being filmed personally, I have no control over whether said footage is used to legitimately support a complaint or to have a 'let's get this ****' campaign on YouTube or Twitter. It generally causes me to cease any diplomatic solution or discussion and go for the nuclear option.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Most of us now have smartphones - time to start filming less than satisfactory interactions and pass them on to the TOCs as a start?

The last time somebody attempted to do that on me was during severe disruption due to flooding so we were terminating early with no onward transport. He said he was going to film me and put me online because he couldn't believe there would be no rail replacement transport. So I said "I'm afraid in that case sir I'll be unwilling to talk any further with you" and walked off and left him to his own devices. He filmed me walking through and helping everybody else, he was left stood at a station still with his camera not knowing what the hell to do because he was after five minutes of fame in The Sun, or similar.

 

[sheff1]

We all know there are a lot of ticket office staff there who can't cope with what should really be very basic aspects of the job. It's something the industry doesn't acknowledge and beyond the resources of the railways to sort out.

The failure to acknowledge the incompetence is the issue. Why does the railway industry have such an acknowledgement failure I wonder ? If it was acknowledged something could be done to address the matter.

 

[sheff1]

Won't work - following a few instances of people attempting to film railway staff to intimidate them most if not all TOCs have a policy of allowing staff to immediately cease interaction and withdraw if filming or photography is attempted.

In some cases*, getting staff to cease interaction and withdraw is exactly what is needed - perhaps I should start filming

* getting grief whilst travelling with a valid ticket, for example.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The failure to acknowledge the incompetence is the issue. Why does the railway industry have such an acknowledgement failure I wonder ? If it was acknowledged something could be done to address the matter.

If my company is anything to go by, you only have to look at the calibre of manager to understand. If they don't see a problem, there is no problem. If they ignore a problem long enough, and tell people what they think that person wants to hear, people will eventually forget about it. So long as they appear to get things done, it doesn't matter if it actually gets done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If my company is anything to go by, you only have to look at the calibre of manager to understand. If they don't see a problem, there is no problem. If they ignore a problem long enough, and tell people what they think that person wants to hear, people will eventually forget about it. So long as they appear to get things done, it doesn't matter if it actually gets done.

Quite. Bad service almost always stems from bad management, whatever the industry, be it poorly-treated staff, poorly-trained staff, overworked staff or whatever. The root cause is very rarely the front-line individuals themselves. Edit: and where it is, it's often because poor management have recruited the wrong people.

As an example, I'd hardly think easyJet and Ryanair recruit cabin crew from particularly different markets. Yet the former near-always[1] seem cheerful and helpful, while the latter are much more mixed.

[1] There was one specific miserable member of Luton cabin crew who I used to see a fair bit, she seems to have gone now though. Otherwise I always enjoyed having a Luton crew, they always seemed very pleasant.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Regarding filming, I disagree with it as a first step (as it does just escalate the situation) but sometimes you have no choice. Say in cases where a ToC refuses to accept there is a problem, or where not having some kind of evidence could land you in legal trouble (e.g. if the ticket office refuses to sell a particular valid ticket for your journey, or where staff just have it out for you as has been seen on this forum before).

 

[AlterEgo]

If my company is anything to go by, you only have to look at the calibre of manager to understand. If they don't see a problem, there is no problem. If they ignore a problem long enough, and tell people what they think that person wants to hear, people will eventually forget about it. So long as they appear to get things done, it doesn't matter if it actually gets done.

This.

Management, and in particular line management, on the railways is so incredibly poor it would make you weep.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I work in customer service, and people record us all the time, thinking it will alter what we say, but if what you are saying is correct, it isn't any use to anyone, and won't alter anything, so we have no issue with it. Only those knowing their actions are wrong, or have something else to hide, don't want recording. Far from inflaming the situation, it usually calms it down, as they have their way in recording it, and forget what they wanted! They also realise it has changed nothing, and as it was all correct, noone else is interested in seeing it! The only ones scarred of it, are those not doing their job properly!

 

[richw]

The regular lady at Liskeard always sells what I want without question, often a mix of tickets, some starting elsewhere.
She's also always advised validity for restricted tickets bought for non immediate travel.