Ticket rejected at Salford Central barriers

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by snail, 5 Mar 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. snail

    snail Established Member

    Messages:
    1,729
    Joined:
    16 Jun 2011
    Location:
    t'North
    I often travel to Salford Central via Wigan (North Western > Wallgate) on a Manchester Stns ticket. I can get through the new barriers at Wigan Wallgate no problem but when I get to Salford Central my ticket is rejected as "seek assistance".

    Is this normal behaviour after transferring via an intermediate station? When I have a bit more time I'm thinking of trying Victoria or Oxford Rd to see if it happens there too.
     
  2. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham Established Member

    Messages:
    2,832
    Joined:
    23 Mar 2013
    Location:
    Powys
    Considering Salford is a separate city, is it included in the "Manchester Stations" group?
     
  3. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    3,600
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2014
    Location:
    North West
    It happens at Salford Crescent as well with tickets to Bolton, Walkden or Salford Central. The Oxford Road ones are dodgy too, rejecting only last week a Liverpool to Manchester advance as 'not valid at this location', and will incorrectly reject B1 Off Peak tickets at will in the afternoon peak period. The person who programmed them did an absolute crap job.
     
  4. sheff1

    sheff1 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,163
    Joined:
    24 Dec 2009
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Yes, quite normal to get a message accusing you of illegal behaviour when trying to use a ticket barrier.
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,840
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    Presumably though they quite deliberately show as a code rather than text, so the staff won't claim you are doing something illegal when you actually aren't?
     
  6. sheff1

    sheff1 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,163
    Joined:
    24 Dec 2009
    Location:
    Sheffield
    No, as JakeF stated, the text of the message displayed is "not valid at this location". This is clearly stating that you are trying to use an invalid ticket and, as is frequently pointed out on here, using or attempting to use an invalid ticket for rail travel is a criminal offence.

    To be clear this message is displayed, not for some bizarre loophole tickets, but for straightforward tickets such as the one described by JakeF. On numerous occasions my ticket with an origin of Leeds has been rejected at Leeds with the "not valid at this location" message.
     
    Last edited: 5 Mar 2017
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,840
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    That's interesting - I've not come across any barriers that display a textual error message rather than just "seek assistance" and a code. I guess these are newer ones?
     
  8. Starmill

    Starmill Established Member

    Messages:
    8,880
    Joined:
    18 May 2012
    Location:
    Manchester
    I got a message that said "ticket expired" when I tried to exit with an SVR return portion on its second day of validity recently.

    I often walk through open barriers that say 'no ticket required' on them - I assume that is intended as authorisation to board the train without a ticket, even though that ticket office was open?
     
  9. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,202
    Joined:
    26 Oct 2013
    I suspect you'd be quite successful in arguing that it exempts you from prosecution in terms of the byelaw regarding passing through ticket gates, and less successful in arguing that it subsequently permits you to board the train :)
     
  10. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    15,502
    Joined:
    7 Aug 2005
    Location:
    0035
    All S&B ticket gates display an error message as text. There are five options as per this FoI request from 2011. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/64294/response/161338/attach/3/POD Codes.pdf

    Further, gates on the Underground will display a message such as "36 Please top up" where appropriate. Not sure if this is all Cubic gates in London or just on the Underground.
     
  11. snail

    snail Established Member

    Messages:
    1,729
    Joined:
    16 Jun 2011
    Location:
    t'North
    Salford Central is, Salford Crescent isn't.
     
  12. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

    Messages:
    8,838
    Joined:
    14 Apr 2008
    Neither Salford Crescent nor Salford Central are part of 'Manchester Stns' or 'Manchester CTLZ'.

    Salford Central is, however, part of 'Manchester Group Routeing Point' in the Routeing Guide.
     
  13. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    3,600
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2014
    Location:
    North West
    I agree with you.

    Wikipedia, however, doesn't, and is possibly the source of some of the confusion.
    The citation used links to the Routeing Guide, thus misinterpreting what 'Manchester Stations' actually consists of. Manchester Stations definitely does not include SFD/SLD.
     
    Last edited: 7 Mar 2017
  14. sheff1

    sheff1 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,163
    Joined:
    24 Dec 2009
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Well it took less than a week for it to happen to me again. According to today's message from EMT I was travelling illegally when using a Derby to Oakham ticket to exit at Leicester.
     
  15. mildertduck

    mildertduck Member

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    9 Nov 2010
    I have hopefully made the wikipedia article more correct - I would appreciate your opinions on it...
     
  16. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

    Messages:
    1,005
    Joined:
    12 Jan 2017
    Isn't it very common for gates to reject tickets at stations which feature neither as the origin or destination printed/encoded on the ticket?

    The displayed "not valid at this location" message on some gates is bad though, as opposed to a generic message such as "seek assistance".
     
  17. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    3,600
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2014
    Location:
    North West
    Looks good to me! Well done.

    Are machines capable of committing libel? :lol:
     
  18. BurtonM

    BurtonM Member

    Messages:
    641
    Joined:
    3 Feb 2014
    Location:
    Manchester
    I've had the Oxford Road barrier not let me in on a Levenshulme-Stalybridge ticket before (return portion going back to SYB so break of journey permitted). I'd cycled up from Levenshulme having missed my first train, in order to catch my connection.
    The Manchester barriers will reject any ticket that's already been through a barrier facing the same way (ie trying to prevent re-use of tickets), which makes sense I suppose - I wonder if you were to leave Victoria and enter Oxford Road en route to Liverpool, how would the MCO barrier react?
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,840
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    As that's an unnecessary double back I'm not unduly surprised- only Permitted because of the station group rule which is more useful in the other direction in most cases.
     
  20. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    3,600
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2014
    Location:
    North West
    Already had this happen a few times ;) Salford Central -> Birkenhead Central SVR rejected. Bolton -> Birkenhead Central SVR rejected. Salford Central -> Belle Vue CDR rejected. Normally 'not valid at this location'. Also get a 'reject passback' after breaking journey at MCO. It would almost be funny if it weren't so bloody annoying.
     
    Last edited: 12 Mar 2017
  21. furlong

    furlong Established Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    28 Mar 2013
    Location:
    Reading
    If the barrier is printing a message 'not valid at this location' on a ticket that is valid at the location, you should report that to the company and give them a reasonable deadline to fix it before you escalate the matter to the ORR for investigation as a (fairly straightforward?) breach of the Consumer Regulations - it could lead to some types of people buying a more expensive ticket than necessary.
     
  22. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    3,600
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2014
    Location:
    North West
    Yet more BS from the barriers in Manchester; this time at Victoria. Return portion of a Bolton - Birkenhead SVR, used as far as Manchester on the 14th. Put it through the barriers this morning to be told 'TICKET EXPIRED SEEK ASSISTANCE'. It's getting reported to Northern of course, but it shouldn't be happening in the first place.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page