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ticket validities back in the olden days

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34D

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Hello,

This is supposed to be a question about historic ticketing, though depending in what direction the thread goes it may become more appropriate for one of the other forum sections.

Anyway, in my own experiences, ticket checking staff were a lot less strict 15 years plus ago than they seem now.

I remember in circa 1998 I'd got the isle of Wight boat times messed up, and was half an hour later on the lymington branch train (and throughout my journey back to Leeds) and staff were quite happy with my YP advance.

Another time I was travelling somewhere down south (possibly isle of Wight again, I've lost track of women and places) and had a class 47 to Birmingham, then supposed to be a valenta HST Birmingham to Leeds.

A full on sprint at New St saw me on the earlier train to Leeds which was a 47. Again a YP Advance.

A couple of years later (moved on to a bird in sheffield now), i used the Sheffield to Leeds not Doncaster ticket to travel shef-don-york behind one of the blue liveried 47s and then on arriva trans pennine from york back to leeds, and yet again all staff were content.
 
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gray1404

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From my experience you had your tickets checked more often in the old days. In the latter days of BR, even at local stations, I remember the person from the ticket office coming out onto the platform as a train would come in and check tickets or take fares as people came off the platform. It seems that there are less tickets checks these days, but the consequences for being caught without a ticket were not as bad - i.e. they just had you pay up and that was the end of it.

There was also non on this nonsance about certain tickets only being valid of a certain BR operations trains. e.g. if you were delayed on the WCML on an Apex or Super Advance, you'd be allowed on the next train that was running regardless. None of this London Midland Only or Virgin Trains West Coast Only because thats who your ticket is with in the event of a delay.

I remember getting delayed on a journey back from the West Country very shortly after it all went private. The staff didn't care who I travelled with as long as long as I got to my destination. As it happened my ticket was "Route: AP Birmingham" but the reality was I ended up on a Wales and West "Alphaline" class 158 service to Manchester via Hereford as far as Crewe then Central Trains to Liverpool.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I remember the Bluesaver and Whitesaver tickets for Intercity journeys at the end of the 1980s/early 1990s.

I think the Bluesaver was not accepted for Fridays all year round, nor Saturdays in July and August. The Whitesaver was accepted for those days, which had a higher fare.

Subsequently, using logic and semantics here, I believe the Bluesaver became the Supersaver (for use on blue days of the timetable period), with the Whitesaver becoming the Saver (for use on white days of the timetable period, of which Friday was a white day).

Furthermore, does anybody know that if the return leg was made on a Friday or any white day while in possession of a Supersaver/Bluesaver return, would there have been a simple excess to the Saver/Whitesaver fare or not?
 

neilmc

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I remember spending a week at a camp in Bridlington or Scarborough, and coming back on a Friday rather than Saturday as planned, as the event finished early. Shock horror - my "blue saver" wasn't valid! The guard picked me up on it, and I might have had to pay the excess, but I can't remember. But certainly nobody tried to imply I was a criminal fare-dodger, that I would have to buy a whole new ticket, that I needed to pay any kind of "penalty fare" or that British Rail might be inclined to forget the whole thing if I bunged them £80 rather than face prosecution.

Thus I regard the "olden days" as the "good old days" when there were no TOCs which sought to abuse and defraud the customer, and that the holder of a ticket which had been bought in good faith but happened not to be valid was treated sympathetically.
 

bb21

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I remember spending a week at a camp in Bridlington or Scarborough, and coming back on a Friday rather than Saturday as planned, as the event finished early. Shock horror - my "blue saver" wasn't valid! The guard picked me up on it, and I might have had to pay the excess, but I can't remember. But certainly nobody tried to imply I was a criminal fare-dodger, that I would have to buy a whole new ticket, that I needed to pay any kind of "penalty fare" or that British Rail might be inclined to forget the whole thing if I bunged them £80 rather than face prosecution.

Thus I regard the "olden days" as the "good old days" when there were no TOCs which sought to abuse and defraud the customer, and that the holder of a ticket which had been bought in good faith but happened not to be valid was treated sympathetically.

The same applies these days. Using an Off-Peak ticket when it is not valid is not a Penalty Fare matter, nor subject to prosecutions without other contributing factors, nor would a brand new ticket be required. A simple excess should be charged.
 

Greenback

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I remember the Bluesaver and Whitesaver tickets for Intercity journeys at the end of the 1980s/early 1990s.

I think the Bluesaver was not accepted for Fridays all year round, nor Saturdays in July and August. The Whitesaver was accepted for those days, which had a higher fare.

Subsequently, using logic and semantics here, I believe the Bluesaver became the Supersaver (for use on blue days of the timetable period), with the Whitesaver becoming the Saver (for use on white days of the timetable period, of which Friday was a white day).

Furthermore, does anybody know that if the return leg was made on a Friday or any white day while in possession of a Supersaver/Bluesaver return, would there have been a simple excess to the Saver/Whitesaver fare or not?

My memory of these times seems to be the same as yours! I'm sure I excessed a Blue Saver to a White Saver with no problem, though it may have been after the names changed to Supersaver and Saver. I wanted to change my plans to return on a Friday, and I just went to the ticket office before boarding the train, paid a small amount of cash, and everything was done in about 30 seconds.

IIRC, there wasn't a great difference between the white and blue savers. It would have been something like £22 blue, or £24/£25 white for a typical journey that I would have made back then.
 

DeeGee

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I once bought a Superadvance return from Sevenoaks to Plymouth. This was 1994, and it was the first time I'd taken the train and stayed overnight anywhere. It was also the first time I'd booked in advance.

Needless to say, I misunderstood the conditions of the ticket, having been told it was valid for a month I was delayed outwards by a day (no fault of the railway) and just assumed it would be valid the next day as well.

Ticket was gripped on the Paddington-Plymouth leg, spotted it was no longer valid, and the only option offered to me was a Single fare costing something like 10p less than the return which I'd bought.

Thankfully my YP railcard discount was applied.

Proper gutted, I was, but I learnt from my mistake.
 

Hadders

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I think it's always easy to look back at the past through rose tinted specs.

We must also remember that there wasn't the internet and social media so when issues arose (which they undoubtedly did) they wouldn't be plastered around for all to see within seconds.
 

davetheguard

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My memory of these times seems to be the same as yours! I'm sure I excessed a Blue Saver to a White Saver with no problem, though it may have been after the names changed to Supersaver and Saver. I wanted to change my plans to return on a Friday, and I just went to the ticket office before boarding the train, paid a small amount of cash, and everything was done in about 30 seconds.

IIRC, there wasn't a great difference between the white and blue savers. It would have been something like £22 blue, or £24/£25 white for a typical journey that I would have made back then.

I seem to remember a colour-coded (white & blue) calendar on the inside back cover of the fares manual showing which Saver fare to charge on which days: with Fridays always being white.

Prior to the White/Blue name, weren't they referred to as "High" & "Low" Savers?
 

Ediswan

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I think the Bluesaver was not accepted for Fridays all year round, nor Saturdays in July and August. The Whitesaver was accepted for those days, which had a higher fare.

There were sufficient exceptions to those rules around bank/public holidays that Leicester station often had posters showing which of the upcoming days were blue and which white. Simple and effective.
 

bb21

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MML had them right into the 2000s in the timetable booklets iirc.
 

amateur

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werent period returns valid for 3 months in the olden days? if so, when did that stop?
 

Greeby

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I went to Search Engine at the NRM and asked for the National Fares Manuals covering my local station (Milton Keynes) for 1983 (to compare against the INTIS transaction roll I got hold of after the travel centre closed) and 1987.

In 1983, the fare structure was broadly like so:

Second/First Ordinary Single: valid for three days
Second/First Ordinary Return: both halves valid for three months
Second/First Day Return: Whilst major destinations such as London had some restriction, many others were code A1 (By any train)
Monthly Return: Highly restrictive fare which had the manual instruct staff to give out a leaflet explaining conditions. Things like if you travelled outward on a weekday, you couldn't return until the weekend.

The manual also stated that Ordinary tickets issued for travel in the "London Commuter Area" (a smaller forerunner of Network Southeast area) would be treated only as Day tickets.


Fast forward to 1987

Standard and First singles were listed, but Ordinary/Open Returns had no stated price on the flow, staff basically had permission to just double up the single fare.

Savers had come in with White and Blue Savers for Intercity journeys, which were usually either code 4B (After 09:30) on the trunk routes, or 8A (By any train) for travelling further afield. Travel within Network Southeast had Network Savers under code 4A. These were only restricted by time, not by day.
 

MarlowDonkey

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Monthly Return: Highly restrictive fare which had the manual instruct staff to give out a leaflet explaining conditions. Things like if you travelled outward on a weekday, you couldn't return until the weekend.

I have this memory that there was a cheap Weekend Return in the early to mid 1970s, valid for travel on a Friday afternoon and return on a Sunday evening. With the speed of the then new electrification, it made a weekend trip to Manchester plausible and back in time for a Monday morning commute.
 

Kingsman

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Yes, early '70s, cheap weekend fare from Ely to Yatton (past Bristol) was available, staff at Cambridge were not supposed to sell it but did.
 

Mugby

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A ticket from Nottingham to London with BR was valid either on the MML or via Grantham because the mileages are very similar.

Not much difference time wise either with a good connection. Can't do it now though!
 

davetheguard

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I have this memory that there was a cheap Weekend Return in the early to mid 1970s, valid for travel on a Friday afternoon and return on a Sunday evening. With the speed of the then new electrification, it made a weekend trip to Manchester plausible and back in time for a Monday morning commute.

Yes, I remember weekend returns too: out Friday, Saturday, or Sunday; return Saturday, Sunday, or Monday of the same weekend (if I'm remembering correctly).
 

Haywain

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A ticket from Nottingham to London with BR was valid either on the MML or via Grantham because the mileages are very similar.

Not much difference time wise either with a good connection. Can't do it now though!

I believe that even now a ticket from Nottingham to London, route Any Permitted, is valid for travel either via Grantham or on the Midland main line.
 

blakey1152

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Yes, I remember weekend returns too: out Friday, Saturday, or Sunday; return Saturday, Sunday, or Monday of the same weekend (if I'm remembering correctly).

Sounds like a remarkably similar ticket to Southeastern's current Weekender ticket offering
 
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