Ticketing & journey planning advice during SWR strike action

infobleep

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And today as well.
I suspect it will be every day they can get staff.

It is interesting how they can staff that but one morning had to cancel some trains from Epsom due to a lack of staff. Obviously contingency guards wouldn't know the whole network and I don't t know which type staff were not avilable.

I wonder which is the more popular stretch of line in terms of passengers, Guildford to Aldershot or Aldershot to Ascot? I'm suspecting the latter but I don't know.
 
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Goldfish62

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I suspect it will be every day they can get staff.

It is interesting how they can staff that but one morning had to cancel some trains from Epsom due to a lack of staff. Obviously contingency guards wouldn't know the whole network and I don't t know which type staff were not avilable.

I wonder which is the more popular stretch of line in terms of passengers, Guildford to Aldershot or Aldershot to Ascot? I'm suspecting the latter but I don't know.
The Ascot to Aldershot line has Camberley on it, which may very well be the largest town on the network with no pre-planned train service during the strikes, so I can see why it's that section being operated.
 

infobleep

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Interestingly the 5:10 Exeter to Waterloo was delayed at Crewkerne today by 5 minutes. Reason is industrial action. So it seems the overcrowding delay started earlier today.

The the 6:34 Bournemouth to Waterloo train was just 3¾ minutes late passing through Woking.

The 7:14 Portsmouth to Waterloo was 3-4 minutes late passing through Worpolesdon, so they in theory cancelled each other out. However the 7:14 was still 7 minutes late at Woking Junction. Again it had to wait for both the down Bournemouth and down Alton services to pass.

Clearly this is where a flyover would help. However it wouldn't help if it's was needing platform 2 just as a delayed train from Bournemouth was due to pass through.

As a result of those down trains and no doubt waiting for the 8:33 Woking to Waterloo stopper to have departed, the 7:14 was 10 minutes late departing Woking. Not sure if a flyover would help when needing to wait for stopping services to cross the fast lines.
 

swt_passenger

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Clearly this is where a flyover would help.
[…]
Not sure if a flyover would help when needing to wait for stopping services to cross the fast lines.
Probably well off topic for this thread, but with a flyover in place it is highly likely that existing P3 will not normally be used. That’s because they intend to build another reversing siding alongside or between the the Guildford lines, so a terminating train would run beyond Woking and return via the flyover. Also the flyover would descend between the present P1 and P2 lines, so your hypothetical train from the Guildford direction wouldn’t necessarily have to be held waiting for a train from the Bournemouth line to pass.
 

Goldfish62

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Longcross is due an all-day seven days a week service from the new timetable due to the large new housing development, yet it appears nothing is going to serve it all during the strikes. Surely an oversight. There are no bus services in the area so it's completely without public transport until January.
 

infobleep

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Probably well off topic for this thread, but with a flyover in place it is highly likely that existing P3 will not normally be used. That’s because they intend to build another reversing siding alongside or between the the Guildford lines, so a terminating train would run beyond Woking and return via the flyover. Also the flyover would descend between the present P1 and P2 lines, so your hypothetical train from the Guildford direction wouldn’t necessarily have to be held waiting for a train from the Bournemouth line to pass.
OK that makes sense. Keeping it back on topic I see the 8:36 Woking to Waterloo has run every day so far this week. Thus I think one could except it to run every day, save when they can't find staff to run it but it seems likely most of the time they will find staff.

Less chance of running is the 8:00 Hampton Court to Waterloo service that only ran on Tuesday.

It appears twice in Real Time Trains when you look at the list of trains running through Wimbledon. One entry shows it stopping at Wimbledon and the other passing. Yet both point to the same link. I'm not sure what caused this to occur. It only appeared once in the National Rail Enquiries App but that had no result for Hampton Court starting point.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/WIM/2019-12-03/0813-0818?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O65555/2019-12-03/detailed

Screenshot_20191205-161644_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20191205-160517_Chrome.jpg
 

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infobleep

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Longcross is due an all-day seven days a week service from the new timetable due to the large new housing development, yet it appears nothing is going to serve it all during the strikes. Surely an oversight. There are no bus services in the area so it's completely without public transport until January.
I looked up the timings and one 11:50 Waterloo to Reading service arrives today at 13:10 and departs back to Waterloo at 13:42. Plenty of time for it to stop at Longcross in theory.

The 13:12 Reading to Waterloo arrives into Waterloo at 14:38. The next train departs back to Reading is at 14:50. So again there is plenty of time for it to stop at Longcross.

There is no clash at Wokingham with North Downs Line trains and I couldn't see any clash around Putney. So I'm at a loss as to why it's skipped.

One might think it's due to then using older timetables and not updating them. However Godalming was added as a stop on most fast services from the general Dec. 2018 timetable period onwards and that is on the strike timetables for most fast and all slow strike services now. So that surely can't be the reason.

They do of course only give advice for Guildford to Ascot though when most services are Guildford to Farnham and Aldershot to Ascot, rather than Guildford to Ascot. Under Guildford to Ascot there is of course advice for Aldershot to Ascot but there is no advice for Guildford to Farnham.

There again the advice for Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom is under Guildford to London Waterloo via Cobham and Stoke D'Abernon.

I actually see there is no leaf fall timetable for the Cobham line on Sunday now. When I looked the timetable had been updated. There is however plenty of time to add in the extra 2 minutes at Guildford for arriving and departing trains, so it seems odd they didn't do so. If the leaves are no longer a problem, why have it in the normal Sunday timetable? Maybe it's to simplify things up to the timetable change and it's mostly not required by the 8 December.

That means the only leaf fall services remaining, if they run, are the Monday to Friday 10:04, 13:04 and 16:04. On Saturdays trains are departing Guildford at x07.

I see the 8:36 Woking to Waterloo ran again today, according to Real Time Trains but it's not showing on the National Rail Enquiries live departure boards for any of the stations it serves. It was activated at 7:36. Some mornings it's been activated at 7:00.
 

Goldfish62

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I looked up the timings and one 11:50 Waterloo to Reading service arrives today at 13:10 and departs back to Waterloo at 13:42. Plenty of time for it to stop at Longcross in theory.

The 13:12 Reading to Waterloo arrives into Waterloo at 14:38. The next train departs back to Reading is at 14:50. So again there is plenty of time for it to stop at Longcross.

There is no clash at Wokingham with North Downs Line trains and I couldn't see any clash around Putney. So I'm at a loss as to why it's skipped.

One might think it's due to then using older timetables and not updating them. However Godalming was added as a stop on most fast services from the general Dec. 2018 timetable period onwards and that is on the strike timetables for most fast and all slow strike services now. So that surely can't be the reason.

They do of course only give advice for Guildford to Ascot though when most services are Guildford to Farnham and Aldershot to Ascot, rather than Guildford to Ascot. Under Guildford to Ascot there is of course advice for Aldershot to Ascot but there is no advice for Guildford to Farnham.

There again the advice for Guildford to Waterloo via Epsom is under Guildford to London Waterloo via Cobham and Stoke D'Abernon.

I actually see there is no leaf fall timetable for the Cobham line on Sunday now. When I looked the timetable had been updated. There is however plenty of time to add in the extra 2 minutes at Guildford for arriving and departing trains, so it seems odd they didn't do so. If the leaves are no longer a problem, why have it in the normal Sunday timetable? Maybe it's to simplify things up to the timetable change and it's mostly not required by the 8 December.

That means the only leaf fall services remaining, if they run, are the Monday to Friday 10:04, 13:04 and 16:04. On Saturdays trains are departing Guildford at x07.

I see the 8:36 Woking to Waterloo ran again today, according to Real Time Trains but it's not showing on the National Rail Enquiries live departure boards for any of the stations it serves. It was activated at 7:36. Some mornings it's been activated at 7:00.
If you look at the standard public timetables you will see that those trains that stop at Longcross take exactly the same time as those that don't. In practice it costs a minute, but that's taken care of in slack at Ascot and Staines. I reckon it's lack of joined up thinking between the long term and short term planners.
 

Sken

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Quick question, i am due to travel on the 18:27 MAN -> BMH and then connect onto Weymouth tomorrow evening (07/12), these are advance split tickets with specific times (including BMH -> WEY section) and were brought before the strike was announced. The connecting train from BMH has been since been cancelled, so will SWR pay for a taxi? As i have been advised by XC my tickets may not be vaild on the earlier 17:27 from MAN which is the last train i can get home on.

Thanks in advance.
 

embers25

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Interestingly the 5:10 Exeter to Waterloo was delayed at Crewkerne today by 5 minutes. Reason is industrial action. So it seems the overcrowding delay started earlier today.
The 0510 often gets delayed between Axminster and Yeovil due to signal issues but usually is on time from Yeovil, due to it's waiting time there (which is cut in the strike timetable). It then follows a freight train from Merehead-Woking on most days between Salisbury and Basingstoke and because of the long signal section between Andover and Whitchurch, if the freight is more than a couple of mins late (which it often is as it can't leave Salisbury nutil after the 0654 to Romsey has gone) it then delays the 0510. This delay then delays the Weymouth-Waterloo which is scheduled to pass through Basingstoke on non-strike days at 0803, right behind the 0510. The 0510 then also gets delayed usually on approach to Woking by the late running 0814 from Havant!
 

infobleep

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If you look at the standard public timetables you will see that those trains that stop at Longcross take exactly the same time as those that don't. In practice it costs a minute, but that's taken care of in slack at Ascot and Staines. I reckon it's lack of joined up thinking between the long term and short term planners.
I hadn't realised they employed two types of planners at SWR, rather than one job role working across both areas.

Still, given they have not yet uploaded all the timetables to the journey planner system, could they not add in Longcross.

I mean every day they are adding in additional trains and I assume those are not in the published timetables.
 

infobleep

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Quick question, i am due to travel on the 18:27 MAN -> BMH and then connect onto Weymouth tomorrow evening (07/12), these are advance split tickets with specific times (including BMH -> WEY section) and were brought before the strike was announced. The connecting train from BMH has been since been cancelled, so will SWR pay for a taxi? As i have been advised by XC my tickets may not be vaild on the earlier 17:27 from MAN which is the last train i can get home on.

Thanks in advance.
Have you sent a Tweet to ask SWR what you should do?
 

infobleep

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The 0510 often gets delayed between Axminster and Yeovil due to signal issues but usually is on time from Yeovil, due to it's waiting time there (which is cut in the strike timetable). It then follows a freight train from Merehead-Woking on most days between Salisbury and Basingstoke and because of the long signal section between Andover and Whitchurch, if the freight is more than a couple of mins late (which it often is as it can't leave Salisbury nutil after the 0654 to Romsey has gone) it then delays the 0510. This delay then delays the Weymouth-Waterloo which is scheduled to pass through Basingstoke on non-strike days at 0803, right behind the 0510. The 0510 then also gets delayed usually on approach to Woking by the late running 0814 from Havant!
Fascinating. Thanks for that. I don't see the 8:19 Guildford to Waterloo being delayed so much outside the strike timetable.
 

v199629

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I hadn't realised they employed two types of planners at SWR, rather than one job role working across both areas.

Still, given they have not yet uploaded all the timetables to the journey planner system, could they not add in Longcross.

I mean every day they are adding in additional trains and I assume those are not in the published timetables.
Around 90 seconds of pathing time has been added for Longcross station for trains not stopping there since the May 2019 timetable. (Between Virginia Water and Sunningdale).

It is in the Train Planning Rules document.
 

embers25

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Fascinating. Thanks for that. I don't see the 8:19 Guildford to Waterloo being delayed so much outside the strike timetable.
I'm on the 0510 from Exeter today and it's 6 coaches to Salisbury instead of the usual 3 and on leaving Gillingham it is a little busier than normal, but not by much. It's the usual 9 coaches from Salisbury. The excellent guard boarded the train with us on the platform at St Davids and so I assume he didn't sleep on board like I believe the guard normally does?
 

infobleep

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I read a letter from Michael Aaronson on the Guildford Dragon New Site about why can't more trains from Reading to Shalford/Redhill/Gatwick Airport stop at Wanborough during the strikes.
This is a problem unique to Wanborough. The whole service between Guildford and Aldershot is suspended because of the strike.

At Ash, the GWR trains already stop at least once an hour in each direction, and passengers from Aldershot, who have a separate line to London, can also catch the KITE bus to Guildford next to the station. So only Wanborough passengers are effectively stranded.

How can it be that two train-operating companies are unable to reach a relatively simple agreement that would ease the misery of travellers in an environmentally friendly way?
We don’t know whether SWR have asked GWR to stop more trains and been refused, or simply haven’t asked. SWR has failed to respond.

Either way, the situation is a pretty poor reflection on them, and their claim on their website: “At South Western Railway we put our customers at the heart of everything we do and every decision we make.”

Really?
https://www.guildford-dragon.com/20...ht-of-wanborough-passengers-abandoned-by-swr/

Is there no space in the timetable to stop at Wanborough? I was on a delayed train to Gatwick Airport on Saturday morning that stopped additionally at Shalford and Betchworth. Whilst a previous service from Shalford had been cancelled, no such thing had occurred at Betchworth as its first service of the day wasn't until after we departed and that service was running.

So additional calls do get made but clearly they aren't regular every hour of thr day.
 

v199629

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I'm on the 0510 from Exeter today and it's 6 coaches to Salisbury instead of the usual 3 and on leaving Gillingham it is a little busier than normal, but not by much. It's the usual 9 coaches from Salisbury. The excellent guard boarded the train with us on the platform at St Davids and so I assume he didn't sleep on board like I believe the guard normally does?
The contingency guard starts from Exeter on that diagram. Probably live near there.
 

Goldfish62

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I read a letter from Michael Aaronson on the Guildford Dragon New Site about why can't more trains from Reading to Shalford/Redhill/Gatwick Airport stop at Wanborough during the strikes.

https://www.guildford-dragon.com/20...ht-of-wanborough-passengers-abandoned-by-swr/

Is there no space in the timetable to stop at Wanborough? I was on a delayed train to Gatwick Airport on Saturday morning that stopped additionally at Shalford and Betchworth. Whilst a previous service from Shalford had been cancelled, no such thing had occurred at Betchworth as its first service of the day wasn't until after we departed and that service was running.

So additional calls do get made but clearly they aren't regular every hour of thr day.
That would require some joined up thinking on the part of the railways.
 

Starmill

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Quick question, i am due to travel on the 18:27 MAN -> BMH and then connect onto Weymouth tomorrow evening (07/12), these are advance split tickets with specific times (including BMH -> WEY section) and were brought before the strike was announced. The connecting train from BMH has been since been cancelled, so will SWR pay for a taxi? As i have been advised by XC my tickets may not be vaild on the earlier 17:27 from MAN which is the last train i can get home on.

Thanks in advance.
CrossCountry must allow you to travel earlier if that's what you need to do to complete your journey, if they are not proposing to get you a taxi or overnight accommodation.

If they don't relent, I would advise you arrive as soon as possible at Manchester Piccadilly and speak to the station staff. I don't know if they will resist the request but if you arrive at around 1700 you should have time to escalate the matter. If they don't offer any assistance then I would go and speak to the guard.
 

infobleep

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That would require some joined up thinking on the part of the railways.
It would but would it be possible even with joined up thinking?

On another timetable point, SW_help say it is not possible to run a normal timetable on Thursday, when the guards are not striking, as there isn't enough time between the two on strike days to operate the full timetable and get trains where they need to be.

Whilst I'd like to believe what they have been told to tell passengers, could someone on here confirm if this really is the case? Surely it must be possible to run some additional trains and get them back before midnight. Even if they could only run off peak in the middle of the day but I could be so wrong here. I do know there are carriages in the Guildford sidings.

I then begin to wonder why there isn't strikes every other day rather than every day, as the same timetable would occur. I am only looking at this from a timetabling point of view but if it's consider too far off topic then I won't discuss it any further.

On the final day of the strikes, would there be disruption as they get the trains in the right place to start the regular service again or would the disruption occur the first day there isn't any strikes?
 

v199629

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On the final day of the strikes, would there be disruption as they get the trains in the right place to start the regular service again or would the disruption occur the first day there isn't any strikes?
There are quite a lot of spare drivers sitting in depots so getting trains to the right place( only requires drivers) is unlikely going to cause disruption.
 

infobleep

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There are quite a lot of spare drivers sitting in depots so getting trains to the right place( only requires drivers) is unlikely going to cause disruption.
OK so could they not apply this on Thursday this week.? As in get trains in the right places using ECS, then run with guards and finally ECS afterwards. If there are spare guards that can work some of the ECSs, use them too.

I do appreciate the regular guards would need to work the strike service but given only about 50% of the service is running, only about 50% of the guards are needed.
 

v199629

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It is getting a bit off topic but around 2 years ago Northern had guard strikes on Mon, Wed, Fri but normal service runs on Tuesday and Thursday (or the other way round).

It just takes a lot of efforts from the planning team.
 

infobleep

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It is getting a bit off topic but around 2 years ago Northern had guard strikes on Mon, Wed, Fri but normal service runs on Tuesday and Thursday (or the other way round).

It just takes a lot of efforts from the planning team.
The Twitter quote, used often is:
Hi, an amended timetable is in place on the 12th of December as there is not enough time between two strike days to reinstate a full service. We appreciate that this is frustrating and are working hard to keep passengers moving. ^MB
https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1204155479146029057?s=19

To be fair, they are saying there isn't time to reinstate a full service. However that still surely leaves room for additional trains on Thursday.

Anyway I decided the best thing was to ask SW_help what was meant by that comment as I am interested to know why it can't be done.
 

Goldfish62

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The Twitter quote, used often is:

https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1204155479146029057?s=19

To be fair, they are saying there isn't time to reinstate a full service. However that still surely leaves room for additional trains on Thursday.

Anyway I decided the best thing was to ask SW_help what was meant by that comment as I am interested to know why it can't be done.
Given the time of year with people out for drinks and parties after work it doesn't seem right to be shutting up shop early on a day when there's no strike action. As a minimum I'd have thought it would be reasonable to run later last trains.
 

Haywain

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Speculation about getting trains in the 'right' places for a normal service fails to take into account that drivers have rosters and working hours, so may not be available in sufficient numbers to achieve that. SWR are likely to be striking a balance between running the service they would like and running the service they can reasonably achieve.
 

infobleep

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Speculation about getting trains in the 'right' places for a normal service fails to take into account that drivers have rosters and working hours, so may not be available in sufficient numbers to achieve that. SWR are likely to be striking a balance between running the service they would like and running the service they can reasonably achieve.
But surely with just 50% of the timetable running, there must be 50% of drivers sitting spare. I appreciate the figures won't be quite that perfect but there must be a reasonable number not being used. Why not put them to use. If that isn't possible why isn't it possible.

Anyway I did send a Tweet to SW_Help late last night to ask what was meant by the Tweet regarding the two strike days being too close together but I didn't get a response. It maybe that they were busy doing something else and missed the Tweet.
 

Haywain

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But surely with just 50% of the timetable running, there must be 50% of drivers sitting spare. I appreciate the figures won't be quite that perfect but there must be a reasonable number not being used. Why not put them to use. If that isn't possible why isn't it possible.
Probably because their rosters cannot be changed at the drop of a hat to be available for work at a time that suits the company on a couple of days. All sorts of agreements with unions and restrictions on drivers hours have to be taken into account.
 

infobleep

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Probably because their rosters cannot be changed at the drop of a hat to be available for work at a time that suits the company on a couple of days. All sorts of agreements with unions and restrictions on drivers hours have to be taken into account.
But does it need to be a drop of a hat, given they have know since the start of the strike, there is no strike on Thursday?

I don't claim to be right on this. I'm just exploring the possibilities, trying to understand reasons why it hasn't been done and whether it could have been done.
 

Kite159

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I noticed last night the 18:20 Waterloo - Salisbury was being advertised as formed of 10 coaches (only 8 turned up when it eventually reached Waterloo following signalling issues in Weybridge). A 10 coach which requires unit de-select for all the stations after Basingstoke as they can only handle 9 coaches, a recipe for accidental release of the rear unit
 

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